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Posted: 9/13/2020 7:08:27 AM EDT
[#1]
A lot of people use the military primers. They are supposed to be harder metal cups than the primers used in hunting ammo and also have a hotter flash/spark to ignite the ball powders used in a lot (all??) of the military ammo. Some of the surplus/GI style rifles have firing pin set ups that allow the firing pin to hit the primer as the bolt chambers the round. The reason for the harder primer cup metal is to reduce/eliminate the possibility of that contact firing the round. I've used commercial (hunting ammo type) primers for years in my M1A and AR15's and never had a slam fire. I've used some of the large military CCI primers for the M1A and M1 Garand and they worked fine, too.
You can find reloading data for those primers in manuals, maybe on line, too. No idea about reloading for friends. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 7:14:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Military primers are not needed.
In the AR I have used the most sensitive primers (Federal) and never had a slam fire. Plus: if you have a aftermarket/ custom trigger, it might not work reliably with hard military Primers. Help your friends out. There is nothing illegal about mutual assistance. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 8:30:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Hey, can I be your friend?
I’d like to send you a couple tens of thousands of components for you to load. Seriously, tell your “friends” “bring your components on over and I’ll teach you how to use a press for the first 1,000 rounds. And bring me a case of beer while you’re at it.” |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 8:49:55 AM EDT
[#4]
I don't know about the primers.
But I would say you learn what you're doing, keep your mistakes to yourself for a couple of years. Screw ups will happen. ie forget to prime, dings in case mouth, scraping copper off bullet pill, shoulder deforming... The list goes on. hopefully it'll not hurt anything but pried. Consistency in each stage is the key. Check powder in EVERY CASE. I won't shoot anybody's reloads. I don't trust em ! |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 10:01:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Primers are all over with respect to cup thickness, hardness, and brissance.
Remington 7 1/2 primers are every bit as tough as a CCI 41, for example. One primer make and type might have a thin cup that is hard, another might have a thicker cup that is less hard. Experience and paying attention to the details will clear up questions. As for loading for friends - it's legal if it's not done for sale. I won't do it unless I have the firearm so I can determine things like chamber length, and test fire the ammunition myself . It's better to have them supply all if their own components, then learn to load them on your equipment under guidance, including checking the ammo in their guns. Send the guys that just want to slap a maximum charge weight load together without any testing on down the road. Mostly that will work out okay until the rifle comes along that can't take a maximum charge. - |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 10:27:18 AM EDT
[#6]
At this point, buy whatever primers you can find.
As far as loading for friends, make sure they know that they use your reloads at their own risk. My experience is that spending time in front of the press making ammo that doesn't go into your own stash gets old pretty quick. Once you set that precedent of being the ammo hook up, it becomes expected (especially if they paid you for components). I just don't have that kind of time to spare anymore. Offering to let your friends come over and crank the rounds out themselves is good advice. Have them find and bring their own components rather than dipping into yours. It's amazing the folks that don't seem to have the time to do this, yet they expect you to take time to do it for them. Do I sound bitter? Nah, but I don't make ammo for friends anymore. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 11:12:06 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At this point, buy whatever primers you can find. As far as loading for friends, make sure they know that they use your reloads at their own risk. My experience is that spending time in front of the press making ammo that doesn't go into your own stash gets old pretty quick. Once you set that precedent of being the ammo hook up, it becomes expected (especially if they paid you for components). I just don't have that kind of time to spare anymore. Offering to let your friends come over and crank the rounds out themselves is good advice. Have them find and bring their own components rather than dipping into yours. It's amazing the folks that don't seem to have the time to do this, yet they expect you to take time to do it for them. Do I sound bitter? Nah, but I don't make ammo for friends anymore. This. I have reloading parties where friends come over and use my equipment and components and I charge them my cost for components but they make the ammo. I try not to ever make ammo for other people with the exception of giving my brother, sister, parents a box or two when they're low. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 11:35:52 AM EDT
[#8]
The thread starts with “New to reloading...”. It is best NOT to reload for others. Not from the legal standpoint, but the liability that you are exposing yourself to.
Example: You reload for a friend, then he goes out with another friend unknown to you. Something happens that damages the third parties firearm, or causes injury. Most people fall into the “it wasn’t my fault” thinking when something happens and start looking for others to blame, which will come back to you. There is nothing wrong with allowing others to reload their own ammunition if you are comfortable letting them borrow your equipment, as long as they understand the process. That makes 100% of the quality of the final product their responsibility. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 11:50:49 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thread starts with “New to reloading...” It is best NOT to reload for others. Not from the legal standpoint, but the liability that you are exposing yourself to. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 12:06:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Primers are all over with respect to cup thickness, hardness, and brissance. Remington 7 1/2 primers are every bit as tough as a CCI 41, for example. One primer make and type might have a thin cup that is hard, another might have a thicker cup that is less hard. Experience and paying attention to the details will clear up questions. As for loading for friends - it's legal if it's not done for sale. I won't do it unless I have the firearm so I can determine things like chamber length, and test fire the ammunition myself . It's better to have them supply all if their own components, then learn to load them on your equipment under guidance, including checking the ammo in their guns. Send the guys that just want to slap a maximum charge weight load together without any testing on down the road. Mostly that will work out okay until the rifle comes along that can't take a maximum charge. - excellent point that seems to rarely get mentioned in primer discussion, everybody mentions cup thickness but overlooks cup material and its role. The old Calhoun examination from twenty years ago is interesting but getting dated. we have no idea really if the makers changed their primers since. I would totally avoid loading for others. Not worth it. I am always open to teach someone I know though. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 12:10:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At this point, buy whatever primers you can find. As far as loading for friends, make sure they know that they use your reloads at their own risk. My experience is that spending time in front of the press making ammo that doesn't go into your own stash gets old pretty quick. Once you set that precedent of being the ammo hook up, it becomes expected (especially if they paid you for components). I just don't have that kind of time to spare anymore. Offering to let your friends come over and crank the rounds out themselves is good advice. Have them find and bring their own components rather than dipping into yours. It's amazing the folks that don't seem to have the time to do this, yet they expect you to take time to do it for them. Do I sound bitter? Nah, but I don't make ammo for friends anymore. lol so true. I had a pretty close friend at the time laugh and said reloading wasn’t worth his time, he’d rather I just load for him, he said I like that stupid stuff. I had just invited him over to load. Turns out he had brass, I had already tumbled for him and bullets. He expected me to provide powder and primers and labor. Not worth his time? Not worth mine either. He had brass alright. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 12:12:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: excellent point that seems to rarely get mentioned in primer discussion, everybody mentions cup thickness but overlooks cup material and its roll. The old Calhoun examination from twenty years ago is interesting but getting dated. we have no idea really if the makers changed their primers since. I would totally avoid loading for others. Not worth it. I am always open to teach someone I know though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Primers are all over with respect to cup thickness, hardness, and brissance. Remington 7 1/2 primers are every bit as tough as a CCI 41, for example. One primer make and type might have a thin cup that is hard, another might have a thicker cup that is less hard. Experience and paying attention to the details will clear up questions. As for loading for friends - it's legal if it's not done for sale. I won't do it unless I have the firearm so I can determine things like chamber length, and test fire the ammunition myself . It's better to have them supply all if their own components, then learn to load them on your equipment under guidance, including checking the ammo in their guns. Send the guys that just want to slap a maximum charge weight load together without any testing on down the road. Mostly that will work out okay until the rifle comes along that can't take a maximum charge. - excellent point that seems to rarely get mentioned in primer discussion, everybody mentions cup thickness but overlooks cup material and its roll. The old Calhoun examination from twenty years ago is interesting but getting dated. we have no idea really if the makers changed their primers since. I would totally avoid loading for others. Not worth it. I am always open to teach someone I know though. I left out my hesitance to rely on Calhoon's measurements, for the same basic reason, it's old and manufacturers change materials and processes. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 1:12:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: First question is should I avoid the various Military small and large rifle primers or buy them up. Most of the load data I have in my books and such never uses these primers and I just really want to make sure since I am just starting out. At present I suggest you but any primer that is the correct size for your cartridge. they will work fine. Second question is I have friends that want me to help them out and load some ammo for them and they will cover the cost of components is this technically illgeal after the whole las vegas shooter ammo supplier thing blew up? Or is it more of a grey area that no one really knows? You are a new reloader, load for yourself only. Do not load for others. It's a safety thing. Learn the process then have friends come over and teach them to load with the components they bought. You lose every time providing components. Say you bought a box of bullets for $25 and charged $25. You go to replace them and they now cost $30 or are out of stock. You lose. Primers are even worse. Thank you for taking the time to read this. Learn this rule of thumb; You can substitute like but different components at the Start load. Rifle or pistol rounds. Start load is the lowest powder charge shown in the reloading data. Low pressure and where you can substitute like but different brand components. Called that because it where you "start". You work up from there watching for pressure signs. You will rarely find exact data for the components you can find. So "start" load is your friend. So data calls out CCI 400, Win small rifle primer, ect, substitute any small rifle primer. Same for large rifle primer. Data calls out Sierrs 55 gr FMJ bullet, substitute any 55 gr FMJ or SP bullet. Bullet weight must stay the same. Same with case headstamps in 223. 308 you have to pay attention to case capacity's. Get a copy of Lyman 50 reloading manual. Read the front to get reloading knowledge, then use the loading data in the back. It's the first manual I open to research a load, and I have a lot of manuals. Welcome to our hobby and the Reloading Forum.  |
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Posted: 9/14/2020 12:00:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Wow more replies than i thought i would get thank you all.
So I dont plan on helping anyone out until i have a firm grasp of it and done all the trial and error myself. I do like the idea of the relaoding party thing when i get more seasoned in reloading On the military small rifle primers based on reading here and other places they are really magnum primers. I have heard some say you just download the powder a little bit and see how it does first. Also i see mention of it affecting different types of powder like ball vs other types. So far the only rifle powder i have been able to pick up has been varget with a lb of cfe 223 and a lb of tac. I am still waiting on my bench to get here so i am trying to do as much homework as i can. I lucked out and snagged one of those 5.5k 62gr .223 bullets from borwnells so i am all set from that side of things just need primers now. |
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