I spend 99% of my night vision time in deep forest.  

Navigating in the winter, when the trees are bare and the sight lines are longer, is easy.  In the heat of the summer though, the brush can be so thick that you can really struggle in the daytime, let alone looking though a 40mm tube at night.

I want to open up discussion of how to navigate through thick and difficult terrain under NODS, specifically monocular PVS14 (which reduce your field of view as well as your depth perception compared to day-vision).

The most adaptive tool I have in my arsenal is the flip-down butler creek cap with hole drilled, paired with a VERY dim IR illuminator, which provides the detail and clarity needed to navigate tight spots.  
I will frequently place my shirt or jacket fabric over the lens of the IR light to diffuse it even more.  This prevents bounce back from the leaves and provides a clearer picture.  Additionally I am always trying to keep my visible and IR signiture, as well as my noise level to a minimum.  The shirt trick helps with all of those.

One of the things I find most difficult is navigating very steep drop-offs. This area is all hills and valleys and creeks and trees and it is easy to think there is a 3' slope when it is really 5 or 6' to the bottom.

All thoughts and questions appreciated.

I've come to the conclusion that NODs are of limited value in the thick woods. Which Butler Creek cap are you using and what size hole did you drill in it? Extra depth of field would solve one of the main issues (I can see the log 6' in front of me, but not the saw brier that's about to be in my face), but I'd think it would require a lot of extra IR to make up for the light loss. Heck, Gen 3 is already struggling badly under such conditions on a cloudy night. One tip is to point your IR illuminator straight up and "bounce" supplemental IR off the canopy. This helps keep close vegetation from having the "nuclear glow" that drowns out everything beyond (inverse square law).

Hopefully someone will chime in with some more info. I could use it too!

You don’t use NVG’s for land navigation.  Compass, map, attack points, hand rails, terrain features and high ground are the keys to success.  GPS is nice, but don’t get dependent on it.




18Z50......

Why walk around deep woods at night if you don't have to, I would rather find/have a place to hunker down, stay dry and get some rest.     I am assuming this is a SHTF scenario or?

Can you expand on these two points?
I am mainly talking about literally moving through the woods and 'navigating' your surroundings, ie not cracking branches, not tripping, not getting your helmet snagged in branches, keeping your eyes up and searching.
Although I would love thoughts on generally navigating at night as well.  I find the PVS14 compass difficult to use and I don't want to stop and hide in brush and pull out my real compass every time I want to orient.

It's the size 7 butler creek cap as recommended on the forums here.  I went with whatever the medium/large hole recommendation was, I believe 5mm, but I could be misremembering that.  

When not using supplemental IR I can usually do well avoiding obstacles by first memorizing them as I approach, and secondly, using how out of focus the items are as an intuitive way to judge distance.  With my monocular set to infinity, anything 15 yards or closer is blurry, but things that are 3 yards or closer will appear so blurred that they are large and somewhat transparent for lack of a better way to describe it.  I dodge the fuzzy images and 90% of the time that keeps my head out of low tree limbs and brambles.
The flip cap is really emergency use only in the woods, for when I've gotten stuck or turned around in thickets, or replacing batteries or parts in the dark, stuff that is 3 feet or closer.

'Why walk around deep woods at night if you don't have to, I would rather find/have a place to hunker down, stay dry and get some rest.     I am assuming this is a SHTF scenario or? '
Because it's difficult.  It's a mental and physical workout and has dramatically improved my capability with NVGS.  I cross fallen trees over streams, I climb small rock faces and generally try to be as capable in the forest at night as I am in the day. It's fun.

After searching for some lost animals in the wilderness.  I too find it enjoyable to hike the woods at night.  Since my helmets are still in a connex at my armory since coming back from overseas. All I've been using is a handheld pvs14 or Envis unit.

Only bad part is I don't have both hands free. The part that is nice about the Envis is that the IR illumination is a momentary button.  Since it's designed for evading pursuers, it keep your signature very low.  I can navigate through brush pretty well,  with the illuminator showing me when it's thick brush or near branches.  Biggest problem I had was missing ditches and falling into them.  It takes a lot of practice to remember to scan the ground in front of you and sort of pre-plan your steps.

Wouldn't a dim visible red flashlight be better for getting through/around trouble spots?  If your 'opponent' has NVD he's going to see the 'dim' IR light just as easily as a dim red visible light.  I would think flipping up your PVS-14 and using the flashlight would be much better for the tough spots.

Agreed, strange question

DOL

I have a dim blue light (with the theory that it's more easily mistaken for moonlight) for map reading or other detail items.  When I first started running the woods at night, I had to use a dim vis light pretty frequently for brush, now I never do.  

It's true that a lot of people have NV these days, but literally everyone can see a light in a dark forest if they have line of sight.  Which brings me to flashlight use Item # 2 and that's that I never like to shine my light above 90 degrees.  If you reference the excellent thread on here about IR illuminator signatures, you'll see most of them are nearly invisible to the naked eye unless viewed directly head-on.  So I try to keep lights aimed more 45 degrees downward.  If I have to use a vis light I am conscious of what is around me to conceal that light and will even cup the light to reduce its signature.

I'll delve a bit into the two things you mentioned you had questions on. Attack point and Hand rails.
Attack point are specific defining features that you can move to, IE a defined bend in a road, hill, intersection anything that you would be able to look at with your own eyes and be able to point it out on a map. These are normally going to be near your end location or in a lane you have created for yourself (bowling alleys, between roads etc.) or on the way to your objective and will roll into other land nav sections and it was just a check point/rally point.
A hand rail is a defining feature you can move along to make your travels easier, (road, creek bed, ridgeline etc.) that you can follow along until you hit another defined feature or attack point so that you know where you are without dead reckoning the entire way. IE follow this creek bed for 1000m/20 minutes until you hit the railroad that intersects it. You could also create a backstop for yourself, IE if you have travelled for 40 minutes or hit the highway (which is 2000m past the creek bed for this example) then you know you have gone too far.
When navving to a point along a linear terrain feature you could handrail, an efficient practice would be to deliberately offset from the point on that feature you are trying to go. So shoot and azimuth 300m "left" from your direction of travel to the obj. so that once you hit the terrain feature you can just make a right turn and follow it for roughly 300m down to the obj. as opposed to just going directly straight to that point you are trying to head to and if you missed it (you probably will most people drift quite a bit) you know that you know which cardinal direction it's in.

Gotcha.  Interesting thought about the blue light.  I thought red because human eyes are less sensitive to red in dark conditions.  I'll read the thread you referenced.  Thanks!

Why you posting your tube serial number to prop up your opinion dude?

No one wants to read your vetted opinions based on a decade+ experience of actual real world employment of best practices here old man.

This is the land of someone asking an off the wall theoretic question, listening to 6 SMEs reply with bad idea/unproductive etc & then having the OP say hold my beer Imma DOIT.

Try again when you have 20k posts & a cooler avatar.

If it's that legitimate of a concern then no light is the honest answer. For map checks though one of the photon micro freedom light (red) or a red lense headlamp wrapped in a bandana underneath a poncho/wet weather top (have a buddy make sure you're 100% covered) is the answer.
Edit: Meant to quote but this in reference to your mentioning of the use of light.

My experience from free hiking (no trails) is that sometimes you just have to stow the NV to get through difficult sections. I would either switch to a low power red or white light (Princeton Tec Switch or Charge) or wait until my eyes adjusted. Especially when ascending/descending because you absolutely don't want to risk injury and in particular if you're out by yourself. This is one reason I believe everyone should have a strobe or marker that has a powerful visible setting.  

Checking that you've tried lowering the gain?

There are no tips or tricks in your scenario.   You just have to suck it up and have more time on task.   It will never become easy and sexy, but you will get slightly better at it

Thank you.  I apologize for the use of the term 'navigation' in the thread title, that was my civilian brain not realizing how seriously you mil dudes would take that word.  What I meant was perhaps 'maneuvering',
That being said, actual land navigation, including in the dark is definitely something I would love to read a thread through on here, though that seems like a separate thread entirely.

'There are no tips or tricks in your scenario.   You just have to suck it up and have more time on task.   It will never become easy and sexy, but you will get slightly better at it'

This is what I am learning.

Lol yeah land nav in a denied area vs civvy orienteering is significantly different. Highly recommend though if you're interested in land nav. or related topics, to find an orienteering group near you, Google or Facebook groups and you could most likely find one within an hour or so of you. Some orienteering companies even have a day into night night into day kind of thing (you could bring your nods but i'm sure you would get some funny looks but fuck it). It's a pretty good intro into basic land nav techniques and they have varying levels from beginner to advanced.

Moving through heavy woods at night just sucks, NV or visible light.  But more with NV.

If using illumination either way I've noticed it helps if you can hold it as low as possible so you illuminate the ground (hopefully) and not all the vegetation below head height.

It's like diving in less than perfect vis, you get the illumination away from your head so it's not reflecting straight back into your face from all the suspended crap in the water column.

This is my exact experience.

I keep a green and blue flashlight on hand for this if I’m trying to be particularly stealthy. Otherwise I just use a helmet mounted WL.

I’ve busted my ass more than once going down steep grades with NV.

This plus this plus this.

I'll experiment more purposefully with the low angled light.

For a helmet light I have an Energizer Hard Case Tactical Helmet Light that came with my helmet and I can't say enough good things about it.

New NV users who've never really done any or much of this (night hiking, etc) until getting NV should be cautious to walk before they run. Rolling an ankle, falling off a drop, falling rocks, wildlife (I see a lot of guys overlook the snake threat for example) depending on your area, etc. There's a lot of shit that can mess you up, lol.

This should be obvious advice but worth pointing out and this is the bare minimum (besides first aid kit, water, etc.) - let someone know where you are, when you should be back, and when you're done and on your way. Send a text when you get to your spot for a timestamp. Don't get lazy. If you're out of reception, drive back to where you last had service to send it.

Worst caseMore than likely, you'll probably just need to make it overnight or so, when whoever you texted can't get in contact with you in the AM and calls for help. ETA: there's a lot worse, worst case, lol

I have been experimenting with a UV LED flashlight for this purpose, what I have discovered so far is that the UV light barely registers with Gen 3 NV units , but can be seen quite well with the unaided eye. In close range situations the illumination level between the intensified and the unaided eye is very close, giving you a sort of binocular image through the use of both eyes. there are also some other hidden benefits I`ve discovered. I will making a thread with some pics soon about this.

That’s really interesting!

Please post up when your done. I mod flashlights a good bit so I may try and order a uv led in try it out.

Navigating in deep woods at night is a challenge.  I would say wait for daylight, take the NVD's off, etc, but it sounds like this is something you really want to do, so here goes.

First of all, try rigging your -14 like this.  Shit-can or roll back the eye cup.  Set it up for a little off-set from your face.  Wear safety glasses if at all possible.  But keep off-set regardless.  Cant -14 up slightly, so you have to tilt your head down slightly to see through it.  This will give you pretty good peripheral vision around ocular, so you can actually walk quietly through bush, by avoiding shit up-close (especially on aided eye side), but still being able to scan ahead with NV.  You lose a little field of view doing this, but the trade-off is worth it IMHO.  I can see pretty good with this set up, by tilting my head up just slightly, scanning around me up close, then lowering my head and scanning with NV further out.  

In really thick shit, consider stowing it in pouch, and going with Mk 1 Mod 0 eyeballs for awhile.  Use it as a day time optic; when you stop and scan, pull out the NVD and take a look.  Plan your next leg if possible, and then go back to internal night vision.

I would use a combination of these two techniques.  Sometimes it's so damn dark, on a moonless night, that you can't see shit.  I wouldn't bother with NV at that point.    

When you go active, with any wavelength, you take chances.  I would rather come off NV than go active.  I would rather stop for the night if I can't see shit with my own eyes.  If you keep going, take it very slow and easy.  If you use illum, you are taking a chance.  I was taught never to use it.  YMMV.        


With that being said, be careful out there.  There's a reason a lot of pros don't wonder around at night like this.  Very easy to step off into deep shit.  I've done it myself.  One minute, dirt beneath you, the next only air.  Lucky I never broke my neck.  We would rehearse in daytime, to cover the ground and get familiar with it before stepping off at night.  Even then it was totally different.

Thats what I do.  I have a head lamp around my neck on green/red light angled towards the ground if I need it.

Eye pro is a great tip.  I will also grab a thermal scan of the area to see what the terrain looks like.  It doesn't see holes that you might step in but you can still get an idea of the terrain.

Just walking to my deer stand, which is deep dark woods, I skip the nods sometimes.

Wearing duals makes navigation much much easier but I still like to work on navigation at night without NV.

Uphill grades give me the most trouble...My feet just can't tell where to expect to make landfall.

Some years back, I made a post describing using a cheap Chinese IR laser (very low power) with a line, or (better for info but riskier for detection by downrange equipment)) a cross generator attached, to betray the lay of the land and obstacles. I doubt the pictures are still online. Suffice it to say, breaks and curves in these lines you see through the NV are intuitively converted to the 3D info you need by your head.
Simply sweep the area of interest and see how it really is, even with a monocular NV.

The line and cross generators are simple, plastic, Fresnel lenses that attach under the bezel of the cheesy laser. Some have narrow line widths (say 30 or 45 degrees), some very wide lines (say 90 degrees.
A very low power laser works fine. Not much power is directed to any point along the lines - the power is spread along the length of the lines. Fast sweeps do the trick usually. Low power permits you to dawdle and study particular small areas without overloading the NV.

Cheap lasers serve as well as good ones (weather and water not considered). I built one into an old AA cell flashlight body and it has survived just fine. I think my total investment was $15.

+1 on the eye protection. Definitely a must when it's possible to not see thorns heading towards your exposed eye.




I actually read that post some time ago, and with that concept in mind, I purchased an IR laser grid.  Unfortunately the seller misrepresented it and it is a red laser grid, so I still haven't tested out your theory.

There are times when going NODS up is helpful for field of view, but frankly I am not wearing my nods when my eyes can adjust well-enough to move safely without them.
The I2 dramatically expands the period of time when I can patrol or cut through the forests and preserves here, which can give me access to a lot of important areas.  Being able to travel to those access points at any time and in any weather is part of my personal training.

I think this is one area where NV just isn't that effective.  When you get into deep woods without a lot of ambient light, you can't hardly see shit, unless you have some of the latest and greatest stuff.  For it to be really effective, you'd have to do a quick scan with active illum.  Now depending, this could be as bad as a white light out there.  Or not matter a wit.  So really I think you're on the right track if you use NV as an additional resource instead of your primary method.  

If the primary goal is navigating at night vs training with NV, then I'd concentrate on the most effective method, not just playing with my wizard eyes, which brings me to the next point.  It was mentioned that GPS was not desired, which is also smart. IMHO.  I think they can track it, and will almost certainly spoof it or shit-can it entirely.  So I think concentrating on traditional map and compass work is a wise choice.  And that means memorizing as much of the terrain as possible.  It is 10x harder to do a nav check at night, especially if you don't want to use any kind of light.  Ten years ago I might have said risking IR light was acceptable; nowadays, dunno.

You sorta touched on this, but to expand a little, when you're in deep woods, or jungle in my case, and you need to move at night, you have to develop a feel for the bush.  I mean literally use hands, elbows, shoulders, etc, to feel your way through the stuff.  This means you have to slow yourself way down, and "flow" for lack of better word through the woods, not crash through it.  It sounds like this is similar to what you've been doing.  Once I detect an object, I try and move quietly and easily around it, not just fucking walk over it.  I hope that makes sense, and doesn't sound too woo woo to you.  If done correctly, you pass through the terrain, without hardly a ripple, rather than crashing through like a bull elk.  And yes it is exhausting.    

Don't be afraid to get down on hands and knees if necessary, or even prone out and crawl.  In this case, having eye pro is highly recommended, thicker gloves, not to mention knee and elbow pads.  A good pair of boots is a must, but it sounds like you're already there.  I only mention that because I've trained millennials who show up in low top trail runners with thin low top socks.  At  least 6" sturdy boots, and thicker wool socks.  Gaitors are a plus in really shitty or snake-infested terrain.

I like mytopo.com for custom map sheets, centered on where I need them, not arbitrary lines.  So you could set them up around your attack points.  You can order them in any scale and with UTM lines drawn in.  I like to use a metric scale (such as 1-25K, not 1-24K), and an global model compass (like a Suunto MC-2G) that use klicks instead of miles.  That way everything is set up on 1,000 meter grid squares.  Miles don't mean shit to me out there.

I will put my primary compass on a lanyard, and have it in a convenient pouch.  I use a wrist compass as I move to help steer to way points.  Tritium is a huge plus, but luminous will work.   I use GPS as a back-up to check my navs.  I use mostly dead reckoning with pace counts, although my woods are a lot less dense than yours.  I always have a bail-out azimuth to some linear feature even I can't miss.  Always break left twice as much as right, for a right-handed person.  This will help counter drift.  But always off-set left anyways.  

Deep woods can be a bitch but I think the key is getting in there and memorizing as much terrain as you can.  I think this is how our ancestors did it before all the tech.  Good woodsman who knew the terrain were worth their weight in gold.  Sounds old-fashioned, and it is.  But that don't mean it don't work.

Excellent post Diz.  
I am self training on the actual navigation portion, finally got myself a compass with adjustable declination and have started practicing.  Got a local map from USGS and will expand with more from them or mytopo as I can.  Thank god for the youtube tutorials, but I sure do wish I had been properly taught this stuff as a kid.

I completely know what you mean by getting a feel and flowing through the woods.  I am most acutely aware of that concept when I get tired or lose focus out there.  My movements go from purposeful and smooth to just friggin crashing through any brush I need to because I'm tired and frustrated. Wearing full kit can make that flowing much more difficult because the ducking and diving past branches takes so much more stability and energy.  

Augee, great points.
I vary my practice, sometimes moving as fast as I can regardless of noise output, and sometimes slowing it all down and spending hours picking through the thick of it as quietly as possible.  But I should begin being more purposeful and mission driven, setting strict parameters for what I'm trying to train in each outing.  
I'm learning my capabilities and when I can throttle up the tempo or when I really need to take my time or even just stop and close my eyes for a minute in the darkness to gather my wits and relax my brain and eyes.  

Yeah Augee is on point again, as per usual.  It's easy to get real dogmatic about things.  I know guys that were trained a certain way back in the day, and you can't change their minds on anything.  They got that old time religion and that's that.  I try to keep an open mind and stay current with the times, but also remember what old jungle hands taught me as well.  In this instance, the older T,T,P's are probably more relevant simply because the newer tech might not be available or even work well.  Although GPS tech has improved vastly, even in deep woods, it might be prudent not to "radiate" as they say.  

Although I got jacked up for this in another thread, the way we used to do it was: "enemy contact not likely", "enemy contact possible", and "enemy contact likely".  So besides the possibility of actually running into someone, you could also use this for "emission's control" and other things.  Each mission you plan could have an enemy contact rating and be executed accordingly.  Of course you could also change your alert status as you react to local conditions, even if simulated.  So yeah it's good to simulate certain things, but don't get too wrapped around the axle about it either; you go out with the intent to practice with the -14, but you get out there, and it's so humid, you can't see shit.  So you stop, take a break, re-assess, and work on something else.      

So yeah, this is important, because according to your background, you may have a default setting that may or may not apply.  For example, I was taught reconnaissance patrolling where you wanted to see things without being seen.  So it was usually low and slow; staying hidden; not engaging anyone, etc.  You might have another guy from a Ranger Batt who goes in, kicks ass, and takes names.  You can probably guess his default setting.  Anyways, later on in different circumstances, I was reminded that I needed to have different gears for different situations.  Although for small or one-man patrols, being stealthy is still probably a good idea.

The Ranger manual is still the bible on this stuff.  Study all the mission planning steps, and try to apply them to your training patrols.  How would you brief a team that was going with you.  What would you rehearse.  Time hacks.  The whole ball of wax.  Then go out and do it.  How close does it get to your plan.  What needed to be changed and why.  Keep a notebook of all this stuff (yeah I'm that analog).  As relates to NV, note weather and lighting conditions and how this affects NV.  Even moon phases, that sort of shit.  Just like a sniper building a log.  Don't Forget Nothin.  

On the land nav.  The declination has been really screwy lately, so don't depend on older map diagrams.  Mag north is heading to Russia these days, so the Grid-Mag angles have changed.  Look up current info in your area on line.  Talk to rangers.  Hell even do a compass course to a known point and see how far you're off.  I set declination on my compass as well; just remember it is subject to change.  What's a few degrees among friends.  Well, as it turns out, a lot.  I have had guys say round to the nearest 5 deg, but I have missed points doing that.  If you need 253 mag, then set 253 mag, not 255.  But the coordinate is only good down to 10 square meters or whatever.  Bullshit.  Give yourself every advantage to hit your point.  Don't cut corners.  With that being said, don't lose sight of the larger picture either.   I was once ass-deep in swamps, on an E&E course with a mission to land nav to a certain point for pick-up. I was so honed in on navigating that I failed to realize there was a student pilot (aka naval aviator) shooting touch n go's on an aux field, which was like a fucking laser beacon showing me where I needed to go.  Use every possible aid you can.  (Yeah finally wised up and use him to flank around the aggressors and hit the objective from behind.  Also hit the roach coach and loaded up on pogey bait before they could get to us!)

I hope I don't sound like some self-appointed SME in all this shit.  I'm not.  In fact I totally sucked at land nav until I put a shit-load of work into it.  And I'm still probably not that good at it.  But I usually get home for supper.  I wish the guys that trained me were still around to dispense their wisdom here.

All thoughts and comments appreciated.  Good points all around.  
I have my hiking notebook, my moon phase map online, weather notes separately, and then just vague notions of my nightly goals and activities. It would make sense to combine all that stuff into a single mission folder, like you said, so I can reference it down the line too.
I know this thread has some rabbit holes, but I really appreciate you all taking your time to put your thoughts down.

Some more things I've learned from my time out there:
-If you need to pull things out of your bags(replace batteries, fix something) do it sitting on the ground and place anything you need to set down directly between your legs (not on your lap)
-Stream line your gear as much as possible.  Branches will snag gear and literally pull it out of pockets, off of guns, and into the oblivion of darkness.  Along with this, don't have loops and snag points that will get you caught in brush, it is much harder to disentangle at night.
-Following trails, like deer trails can occasionally be easier at night because of the high contrast between the dark ground and the bright leaves.
-As others have said, you have to judge whether the nods are helping you or hindering you.  If you're unsure, they're probably not helping.  I find them best for staying aware of my surroundings 25+ yards out, where natural dark vision begins to fail you in the woods.

Good tips!  The first one goes double for NVD's.  Sit down and fiddle with your NV stuff so it falls in your lap not on ground.  Ha the one about streamlining; this had been all but forgotten.  I see all sorts of equipment that looks like a "hung jumper" waiting to happen.  Straps, bungees, wires, tubes, etc.  We have all but  forgotten how to rig for deep woods.  Also how an ALICE style ruck, which sits below your head is optimize for heavy bush.  Hats, boots, socks, gaitors, lots of stuff.  It doesn't take but one trip to remind you of this stuff.  Not fighting "wait-a-minute vines" or similar things.  Letting the guy behind you clear that vine off your ruck (if you have either one).  

And really the number one tip, IMHO, is to take frequent security halts.  In thick shit like this, you will hear guys way before you see them.  Use this as a positive not a negative.  I would do a mission where I wanted to get into position for a spot recon, or deliberate ambush, ("actions in the obj area") as you like.  Then sit there for an hour or two and note all the shit that goes on around you.  Even planes flying over.  Then carefully melt away.  Having a set obj and time to get there (and leave) will up your game!

As it relates to NV.  Obviously when it gets that thick, you can't see shit, and all that hanging off your face is trouble looking for a place to happen.  I was doing a night live fire ex with NV one time, where I was the left flanker as we got on line and assaulted the objective (an outlaw base camp out in the woods).  Well, sure as shit, I walked right into this pile of brush, getting -14 stuck in there, like Briar Rabbit.  So here I am, in the middle of a live fire ex, and my head is stuck; can't back up, can't go forward.  I finally got out and dressed the line.  During the AAR, the instructor says what happen over there on the left side?  I say I got stuck in a big pile of brush.  So he says, oh yeah, I meant to clear that out of there.  Well yeah no shit.  I thought I was just gonna pass my way through some brush, which turns out to be a dense pile of cleared brush all tangled together.

Excellent points by everyone. I've had a lot of experience with moving through the woods at night. One of the best things you can do is get comfortable not seeing shit at night and moving. One of the posters above said you have to "feel" your way and that's entirely accurate. There's not one special thing you can do that will make you an expert at it, it's more of an art than science.

One of the best things I can tell you is just to go out and do it. Bring a small very dim flashlight with a red lens, out it in your pocket and do not use it unless you are completely stuck. I'm not gonna rehash all the safety measures or other tips. Bring your night vison and keep it in your pocket and use it before the light. If you cant see shit with your night vision, then break out the light. Do not use the IR function on your NODs, it will wash out everything.

If all else fails, hunker down and get a good night's sleep. Wait for daylight.

I don't have much time to get out and do that kind of stuff anymore and it was one of the things I really do miss about being at Bragg. The field exercises sucked but it was always a blast for me to move at night and actually get to where we were going on time. Even though I was a lowly Private and wasn't rated a set of my own. Squad leaders and above got them. Old crappy Omni II PVS-7s IIRC. My squad leader only brought them out in the instances I mentioned above. When I finally was able to get a set of my own, I didn't really use them all that much either, I felt they were more of a hinderance than anything else, but I feel like I had pretty good natural night vision on my own.

Now that's truth right there.  I loves me some night vision, I really do, but you might be surprised how good you can get in this scenario.  I don't say "see" because it's a combination of all your senses.  If you go out and patrol in this shit, you will get comfortable and even pretty good at it.  Night vision can enhance this, but not replace it.

In reference to hunkering down at night.  My last year in the reserves, company night assault, with a company staff that didn't know collective asses from matching holes in ground.  Now all the old hands know exactly where we're at, it's base of Sugarloaf for Crissakes.  But when you try and tell them that, it's "we got this, get back in formation".  So we wondered around half of Camp Pendelton for most of the night, until Bn staff said, just stop, hunker down until dawn and then attack.  Ooh Rah.

Carry eye drops and think hard about clear eye pro if you are walking with others. Getting face slapped by a branch you didn’t see sucks ass. Especially taking a hit to the eye.

You’ll eventually get a bug in the eye with a headlamp or NOD turned up bright. Eye drops can be a lifesaver.

^ what he said, snake boots. It is very comforting having on snake boots when you are walking in black dark and put that foot down on the squishy, meaty danger noodle.

NODs do have benefits though. If you know the main air traffic paths in your area, it is a quick way to tell direction. Makes orientation easy if you know the location of local radio or cell towers. You can also see the skylinelight of even the smallest town or community from a couple miles away.

While I do not hike just to go hiking, I hunt a lot and have no issues striking out in woods or swamps I do not know. Also hunt up in the mountains and line of sight can be very short there. I like to pick up game trails if I can.

Old well’s scare the shit out of me. If I start seeing signs of an old home place I redirect.

This thread is a little gold mine of info.

Ha that's right Lowdown Six wuz in the House that night.  Talk about deep woods, and no moon, that was pretty much it.  You could see fairly well along the trails, and up on the fingers, but go down into a draw and it's like looking up a hog's ass.    

There's also a very good vid up of the real ho-dads from Ranger Batts n so forth talk about their jungle experiences in South and Central America.  Their consensus is you don't patrol at night in those jungles, unless you have a new butter bar who just insists on it.  And after you medivac him out (!), you stop doing it.

Out at Pendleton, again, you have these cuts in the ground, literal cracks where the earth separates and makes these six foot trenches.  So like you're walking along all stealthy, and then your lead foot just goes down, and you hear this "fuck", and the distinctive "klonk" an AR makes when it hits the deck.  It's usually pretty funny for everyone but the participant.

I've also done a break contact drill where I ran full speed right into a barbed wire fence; it just sorta stopped me in my tracks, like a cartoon, you know, a big "sprong" and a WTF.

So yeah it's gonna depend on terrain and situation, and there are risks involved, but it can be done.

Good points on eye drops and air traffic.  They will both save your ass.  The old "V"-routes used to be marked on aeronautical "charts" so yeah if you can still find those, they would be hard to miss.  Not to mention any air traffic around your local airports.    Also cell and other towers have become so common that they make good check points.  Power line right-of-ways.  Railroad lines.  These would be high-speed trails in and out of cities.

That's a good point, and worth pointing out. Small trails, streams, even fallen trees can open up pockets of sky that let more light in. I have a big creek nearby that I can confidently move around on the darkest of nights, but go just a few yards in from the stream bank and it's pure blackness.  It can be hard to judge just how dark the woods are going to be before you get into them.  Those first steps into the wood line is like a black veil being pulled over your eyes.

The fact that cheesin' in the woods in the dark is frowned upon by so many makes perfect sense, but definitely makes me want to become even more proficient at it.  If I can move through thicket when others can't, it's another potential opportunity for this rat to slip away.

Just always keep in mind, in the woods in North America, you are way more likely to be killed or messed up by something microscopic on up to snake sized. I’ve walked up on black bear, hog, deer, coyote, cougar. All unassed the area fast. Especially if they winded me. There is always a possibility you could have issues, but it is very unlikely.

People, bugs, and snakes are my concern animal wise while out. We only have black bears here.

Skunks can absolutely ruin your night and most of the time they operate on some odd set of right of way rules where he with the potential for the greatest stank has the right of way.

While they don’t do it often, it would absolutely suck ass to be walking through thick laurel and bump into this hanging chest or head high.

I'll second the skunk bit.  I like to use the local park at night to practice worst case scenario, no moon forest walks.  A couple weeks ago I was coming around a bend in deep brush following a creek and caught some movement with NV up ahead.  I stopped as I like seeing how still and quiet I can be with local wildlife.  What I thought was a racoon came out of the brush and I saw the white stripe.  Turned out to be a mother skunk and 3 little ones.  My immediate response was to turn and walk away.  When I stepped back I realized because of the bend in the creek and the position of the skunks, both avenues to unass the area took me past the skunks too close for comfort.  I just holed up as still and quiet as I could be and hoped for the best.  She took her good ole time waddling around with her offspring within 5 yards of me for what felt like an eternity (less than 5 minutes) and slowly moved away.  Once or twice I think she heard me and as opposed to other critters around here that immediately run when they hear/see me, she just looked in my direction and then went about her business.  Acted like she owned the place.  

Have you tried using a more powerful IR illuminator in the "umbrella" method, attached to your helmet but pointed mostly straight up?

If there isn't a lot of low tangling brush, your IR light can reflect down from the upper canopy and surround you with a lot of nicely diffused IR light. It also helps illuminate areas that cast shadows from your direct-pointed illuminator, think of indirect fire like a mortar, but it's a flashlight.

Also, a tightly focussed full power laser or illuminator can be "shot" through holes in the brush to hit an object adjacent to any specific dark/shadow areas you want to assess downrange and that area will be diffused with IR light, where an LED style flashlight would light up the close range brush and wash out your NVG's.

If you need to avoid all light emissions you are going to need really good tubes, and focus them at you feet to see where your going, with any flip caps opened up to maximize light collection, and you'll have to go very slowly.

They do.

I got sprayed pretty bad in kind of the same scenario. I wasn’t trying to start shit, but the skunk sure was.

Not fun.

I was driving through a cow pasture one time and there must have been 100 skunks out there, the hunting guide had no idea till I handed him the binos.

A thing I have not seen mentioned is that some inks are not visible in IR under NV.
Some inks disappear entirely.
Be certain, before you head out, that you take your maps into the closet and check to be certain that under IR lighting and through NV, you can see the landmarks and features of interest and the legend as well. Any hand marked points of interest or notes too.

Getting into critters, I was doing this water crossing one time and decided to take off my boots to wade across.  As I was talking to my buddy, I happened to look down and saw this huge tarantula.  He just kinda cruised up to me, checked me out, and moved on.  My buddy's eyes got big as saucers.  I just played it off like oh, big fucking spider, bare feet, NBD.  They're not poisonous, right?  

Was laying in night ambush one night.  We were doing an exchange program with the Brits.  So patrol was half n half.  Well, of course each side is trying out-do the other. So anyways, we get into ambush position, and no one is twitching a muscle.  It's like we're both trying to prove who has the best discipline.  After awhile we hear this little scurrying, scratching noises.   And one of them is getting closer.  Finally I feel this little scratching, tugging on one of my legs.  I'm like WTF, but don't break discipline.  After about 5 minutes, they go away.  I was just waiting for the crunch as one bit my leg.  Think they were some kind of field mice.  But I'll be damned if I swatted at them in front of the Brits.  So yeah get rabies cuz you're trying to prove you're tougher than the Limeys.

This one is a stretch but did you ever have those big horse flies that just wouldn't leave you alone?  I had one dog me for a long stretch.  It was everything I could do not to swat at it.  So one time I go down on one knee on security halt, and the damn thing lands right in front of my bbl.  I couldn't resist.  I capped off a blank in his ass.  When I looked down, there was this black spot on the hard pack, with two tiny wing tips.

But enough thread drift.  You know I like your spirit here; you sound like a young 2/Lt; and I mean that in a good way.  But just remember there's frequently good reasons the old timers tell you shit; and yeah good point, in that a rare skill set might come in handy, but just remember there might be a good reason it's a rare skill set.  

Landnav at it's finest.  I think we're about right here.  Whatcha think?  Whatever you say LT.  



That's a mytopo custom for the National forest we're in.  Notice wrist compass.