Can you use an ffl to send a class III rifle to a gunsmith?

But he cant accept it. He is not a class 3... besides, its not a form 4 transfer. Its already stamped in my name.

It can't come back to you - you weren't the one who shipped it to the out-of-state FFL. You didn't think this one through.

You'll have to have the out of state FFL remove the short barrel, or pin and weld something on there for you, to remove it from the NFA in order to get it shipped back to you through your in-state FFL, without eating two Form 4s and $400 in stamps.

Pin and weld will probably be easiest, then you can grind off the head of the welded pin once it's back in your possession.

If it comes from an FFL it has to go back through an FFL is what I've always encountered.  Being an NFA item complicates the matter.  Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can help you fix the issue, but I'm guessing it's going to be a heck of a mess.

ETA:  looks like the more knowledgeable gave you your options above.

F me. Ok. That makes sense...

He doesn't have to be an SOT to accept Title II (NFA) firearms for service (such as gunsmithing or cleaning).
Any FFL can do that.

It would be best if he would just accept it (since it was shipped off for service in the first place) and return it to you.

If he is adamant about not accepting it, you could ask if he'll accept it on an approved F5 (tax-exempt transfer form).

The problem with this is... if that's the only way he'll accept it back, then it should've gone to the other FFL/SOT on F5, but it didn't (because apparently it wasn't a SBR yet) so then really the FFL/SOT doing the work should've registered it on F2 (and engraved it with his own info) but he didn't, right?

This really should've all been hashed out with the local FFL and the out-of-state FFL/SOT in advance, and you (as the F1 maker/registrant) should've shortened the barrel (hacksaw) to make the SBR prior to any shipment.

None of this would normally require a F5 to be used. It's optional because ATF does not consider this type of service shipment to be a transfer (as long as it's going to an FFL).

With regards to this situation... I've never tried doing F5 from an out-of-state FFL/SOT back to a local FFL near the F1 registrant, as in your scenario... because ATF will probably wonder "How'd this get over there in the first place?"

So probably to get it back on F5 to your local FFL, you'd need to first "send it" to the FFL/SOT on F5 (except it's already over there).

So either collaborate really hard to make this right on paper, or do like Circuits said and mod the barrel to make it back into a Title I (GCA) rifle. But don't throw the FFL/SOT under the bus if the agreement between you was for him to cut it. (which I wouldn't have done, were I in his position.)

You certainly do not need to answer any of my questions on a public forum.
But these are basically your options.

Thanks. No bus throwing. SOT is not at fault here...

can't the FFL take the barrel off and ship it to OP and then ship the receiver back to OPs FFL?
That will get you all the parts back at least.

Yes he could, but it's an AK, so that'd be more work than pinning an extension to the barrel (and later removing it).

how about removing the stock?

That wouldn't make it not an SBR if it started as a rifle, to which OP has intimated.

@Voland

My IM must be too long. It doesn't want to send it...


Found it on my phone...

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-licensed-gunsmith-receive-nfa-firearm-purposes-repair
Note that, although it says they "recommend" F5, that hasn't been my experience when speaking with NFA personnel at ATF, and other industry insiders.

They clarify it better in their NFA Handbook...
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/undefined/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-9/download
See section 9.5.1 Repair of firearms.

I managed a couple FFL/SOT gunsmith shops for several years, and the practice we used (as recommended to us by ATF and other shops) was to have the owner execute a complete F5 to our shop, but instead of submitting it to ATF, they just dropped the signed original in the box with their firearm when shipping it to us for gunsmithing.

When we shipped back to them, we just stuck a note on it with the repaired and shipment dates, and included a form letter stating it was being returned. That was our documentation (along with the work invoice.) This saved the owner from having to wait for NFA approval to ship, and left enough documentation that if the box was opened or became damaged in transit, everybody was covered as far as showing what was going on. And of course it was logged in/out of our gunsmithing A&D book.

We went through a couple audits and never had a finding. One audit was done by an ATF IOI who'd never heard of this practice, but he called someone higher and was satisfied by whatever they told him.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, there is a lot of fail to go around.

Typically you hack saw the BBL down under 16, so you legally made it an SBR, then send it to a smith to get threaded and crowned (gunsmithing).

He committed at least two felonies that risk your gun being confiscated.

This is the correct answer. 9.5.1 (confirmed by my ffls call to the atf) clarified that sending a class 3 rifle to a gunsmith does not constitute a transfer and can be handed by any ffl. Ideally you can fill out a form 5 but its not required.

I used to build guns with a gunsmith who had an 01 license, we changed a barrel on a full auto Fal, as long as the gunsmith has the 01 he can do gunsmith work on a Title II

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