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Posted: 1/15/2019 4:09:07 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm LSHD, but I don't understand why you'd want a FH that looks/acts like fish hooks on a highly concealable subgun that you're spraying at some jihadi or using as cover fire while a VIP is ushered away. Neither scenario seems to call for flash reduction, nor does a snaggletooth front-end seem desirable.
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Posted: 1/15/2019 8:53:55 PM EDT
[#2]
I know I sound like a CAA shill, but I don't see the benefits of this over an MCK conversion kit.
Mine measures in at 14.5" (when folded) and only weighs 4.2lbs with the G19 (empty), Buis, red dot, and a PL-Mini. Here is one for the P320. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 11:37:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know I sound like a CAA shill, but I don't see the benefits of this over an MCK conversion kit. Mine measures in at 14.5" (when folded) and only weighs 4.2lbs with the G19 (empty), Buis, red dot, and a PL-Mini. Here is one for the P320. Don't have to deal with locking one system into another, no extra parts to fail here. Recoil impulse is smoother/better on the MPX over that of the Glock in the CAA kit. Better control features (Bolt hold/release, mag release, safety) and is identical to that found on the AR15 for training purposes and familiarity. I'll take the MPX Copperhead over a Glock put into a chassis any day of the week. |
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Posted: 1/16/2019 12:00:48 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being able to carry it with a round safely in the chamber while in a pack or slung is one big perk. The CAA doesn't add an active physical safety to the system and having a chambered round with a free trigger bouncing around isn't exactly safe, nor is it safe keeping it in a bag with a round chambered as something can snag the trigger. In my experience, it takes no more time to charge it than it would to disengage a safety. Don't have to deal with locking one system into another, no extra parts to fail here. That's a bit of a reach. You'd only need to remove it to clean. No different from disassembling any other system to clean. Not only that, but the ability to remove the pistol for even better concealment is a huuuuuge plus. Recoil impulse is smoother/better on the MPX over that of the Glock in the CAA kit. You have first hand experience? Better control features (Bolt hold/release, mag release, safety) and is identical to that found on the AR15 for training purposes and familiarity. I'll maybe give you that. I'll take the MPX Copperhead over a Glock put into a chassis any day of the week. Subjective, of course, and they do make these for other pistols not named Glock. |
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Posted: 1/16/2019 12:07:54 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Being able to carry it with a round safely in the chamber while in a pack or slung is one big perk. The CAA doesn't add an active physical safety to the system and having a chambered round with a free trigger bouncing around isn't exactly safe, nor is it safe keeping it in a bag with a round chambered as something can snag the trigger. In my experience, it takes no more time to charge it than it would to disengage a safety. Don't have to deal with locking one system into another, no extra parts to fail here. That's a bit of a reach. You'd only need to remove it to clean. No different from disassembling any other system to clean. Not only that, but the ability to remove the pistol for even better concealment is a huuuuuge plus. Recoil impulse is smoother/better on the MPX over that of the Glock in the CAA kit. You have first hand experience? Better control features (Bolt hold/release, mag release, safety) and is identical to that found on the AR15 for training purposes and familiarity. I'll maybe give you that. I'll take the MPX Copperhead over a Glock put into a chassis any day of the week. Subjective, of course, and they do make these for other pistols not named Glock. The locking system has failed, there are google hits of it being loose or having other issues. The complexity of having a system working within a system is not ideal and it isn't a stretch at all to point that it is a failure point that is being added. Yes, I have first hand experience with a G19 in the kit and a MPXK. The MPXK was a FAR smoother system, similar to that of a MP5. Your bias is showing yet again to not even freely back down on the control features, the kit is not ideal here and shares no real platform other than itself. I really don't care that they make it for others, I'd still take a proper sub gun/PCC platform over a pistol shoehorned into a kit for anything two way range related. |
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Posted: 1/16/2019 12:10:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is always faster to disengage a safety than it is to charge the weapon, the fact that you're trying to state that you're faster with charging shows you have an intense bias to the platform. Also, what do you do when you are having to move positions with a round already chambered? Is a reason that they teach in self defense rifle classes to engage your safety when transitioning positions. The locking system has failed, there are google hits of it being loose or having other issues. The complexity of having a system working within a system is not ideal and it isn't a stretch at all to point that it is a failure point that is being added. Yes, I have first hand experience with a G19 in the kit and a MPXK. The MPXK was a FAR smoother system, similar to that of a MP5. Your bias is showing yet again to not even freely back down on the control features, the kit is not ideal here and shares no real platform other than itself. I really don't care that they make it for others, I'd still take a proper sub gun/PCC platform over a pistol shoehorned into a kit for anything two way range related. Lol. That's freaking rich. I couldn't care less. You do you. |
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Posted: 1/16/2019 12:15:01 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My bias? Lol. That's freaking rich. I couldn't care less. You do you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It is always faster to disengage a safety than it is to charge the weapon, the fact that you're trying to state that you're faster with charging shows you have an intense bias to the platform. Also, what do you do when you are having to move positions with a round already chambered? Is a reason that they teach in self defense rifle classes to engage your safety when transitioning positions. The locking system has failed, there are google hits of it being loose or having other issues. The complexity of having a system working within a system is not ideal and it isn't a stretch at all to point that it is a failure point that is being added. Yes, I have first hand experience with a G19 in the kit and a MPXK. The MPXK was a FAR smoother system, similar to that of a MP5. Your bias is showing yet again to not even freely back down on the control features, the kit is not ideal here and shares no real platform other than itself. I really don't care that they make it for others, I'd still take a proper sub gun/PCC platform over a pistol shoehorned into a kit for anything two way range related. Lol. That's freaking rich. I couldn't care less. You do you. You clearly care and clearly have a bias. |
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Posted: 1/16/2019 12:21:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You couldn't care less and yet you are in a Sig PCC chat trash taking the PCC and pushing your preferred product. When genuine issues are brought up on your preference, you retreat to "nuh uh mine is better" by grasping at straws. You clearly care and clearly have a bias. You're the one shilling for it against half the other posters in this thread that are basically calling it an ugly abomination that serves no purpose. |
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Posted: 1/16/2019 12:25:05 AM EDT
[#9]
Knock it off this is tech not GD.
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Posted: 1/16/2019 1:37:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Anyone wondering what the actually barrel length is, I get 3.64" from the breech face to the tip of the flash suppressor.
And crown is recessed .535" from the end of the flash suppressor, which leaves an effective barrel length of 3.1". I do not think the flash suppressor is worth its length and a 3.5" barrel with a threaded muzzle would have made more sense. The PDW brace integrated into the lower is pretty neat though and would be a cool addition to the MCX Rattler. |
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Posted: 1/16/2019 7:39:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone wondering what the actually barrel length is, I get 3.64" from the breech face to the tip of the flash suppressor. And crown is recessed .535" from the end of the flash suppressor, which leaves an effective barrel length of 3.1". I do not think the flash suppressor is worth its length and a 3.5" barrel with a threaded muzzle would have made more sense. The PDW brace integrated into the lower is pretty neat though and would be a cool addition to the MCX Rattler. Would have potentially been more effective to simply do what the HK MP5K is and simply have a non threaded barrel sticking out there but then you still run the risk of people potentially threading the end to add the can. |
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Posted: 1/16/2019 10:37:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A threaded muzzle would have lead to individuals trying to add a suppressor to it and finding that it cannot reliably do so. (Current predictions as to why this doesn't have a threaded muzzle) Would have potentially been more effective to simply do what the HK MP5K is and simply have a non threaded barrel sticking out there but then you still run the risk of people potentially threading the end to add the can. |
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Posted: 1/16/2019 10:46:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see your point, but, I don't see much difference between someone having the barrel threaded, and someone having the flash hider chopped off and the barrel threaded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: A threaded muzzle would have lead to individuals trying to add a suppressor to it and finding that it cannot reliably do so. (Current predictions as to why this doesn't have a threaded muzzle) Would have potentially been more effective to simply do what the HK MP5K is and simply have a non threaded barrel sticking out there but then you still run the risk of people potentially threading the end to add the can. Having to cut and then thread makes it much harder for anyone to do it and makes it so that those that do can't blame Sig for it not running suppressed. Guess the thing to take from this is if you want a can, use the MPXK, if you want stupid short and don't want or need a can, get this. |
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Posted: 1/17/2019 12:40:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A threaded muzzle would have lead to individuals trying to add a suppressor to it and finding that it cannot reliably do so. (Current predictions as to why this doesn't have a threaded muzzle) Would have potentially been more effective to simply do what the HK MP5K is and simply have a non threaded barrel sticking out there but then you still run the risk of people potentially threading the end to add the can. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anyone wondering what the actually barrel length is, I get 3.64" from the breech face to the tip of the flash suppressor. And crown is recessed .535" from the end of the flash suppressor, which leaves an effective barrel length of 3.1". I do not think the flash suppressor is worth its length and a 3.5" barrel with a threaded muzzle would have made more sense. The PDW brace integrated into the lower is pretty neat though and would be a cool addition to the MCX Rattler. Would have potentially been more effective to simply do what the HK MP5K is and simply have a non threaded barrel sticking out there but then you still run the risk of people potentially threading the end to add the can. Attempting to defend it, with "SIG can't make it work" does not make the gun look any better. Or add any function to the joke of a flash suppressor. |
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Posted: 1/17/2019 5:29:13 PM EDT
[#15]
@coregon is the Sig Copperhead pictured below a prototype or will this version be released for purchase?
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Posted: 1/18/2019 12:09:08 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@coregon is the Sig Copperhead pictured below a prototype or will this version be released for purchase? http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/img_4844.jpg |
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Posted: 1/18/2019 12:29:15 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a select fire. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
@coregon is the Sig Copperhead pictured below a prototype or will this version be released for purchase? http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/img_4844.jpg |
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Posted: 1/18/2019 1:37:22 AM EDT
[#18]
the upper on that thing is f'n terrible. looks like absolute shit -- well done Sig...
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Posted: 1/22/2019 11:23:27 PM EDT
[#19]
does anyone know if you use Gen I MPX mags with the Copperhead ?
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Posted: 1/23/2019 6:51:01 PM EDT
[#20]
9mm coming out of that short of a barrel, that close to your face has got to be LOUD!
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Posted: 1/25/2019 10:41:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm LSHD, but I don't understand why you'd want a FH that looks/acts like fish hooks on a highly concealable subgun that you're spraying at some jihadi or using as cover fire while a VIP is ushered away. Neither scenario seems to call for flash reduction, nor does a snaggletooth front-end seem desirable. |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 12:13:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The weird flashhider is for the civilian version. The military/gov version is different, iirc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm LSHD, but I don't understand why you'd want a FH that looks/acts like fish hooks on a highly concealable subgun that you're spraying at some jihadi or using as cover fire while a VIP is ushered away. Neither scenario seems to call for flash reduction, nor does a snaggletooth front-end seem desirable.
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Posted: 1/25/2019 12:18:28 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
9mm coming out of that short of a barrel, that close to your face has got to be LOUD! |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 5:29:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Per a video from Sig at Shot Show, you can put a MPX K barrel on the Copperhead.
Perhaps a distributor will order a custom version with 4.5" threaded barrel at the same price point. |
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Posted: 1/27/2019 8:15:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Hopefully I will have mine by the end of next week. Will give y’all a review then
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Posted: 1/28/2019 11:44:19 AM EDT
[#26]
Sorry for the delay, been at SHOT with very little downtime.
The CH comes in one configuration currently - that's the FDE/Coyote color with the fixed muzzle device. Exclusives with different configs are always an opportunity/possibility. Any questions, let me know. |
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Posted: 1/28/2019 12:01:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry for the delay, been at SHOT with very little downtime. The CH comes in one configuration currently - that's the FDE/Coyote color with the fixed muzzle device. Exclusives with different configs are always an opportunity/possibility. Any questions, let me know. Suppose the top question from everyone is why have the integrated muzzle device instead of standard threads for suppressor use? |
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Posted: 2/6/2019 3:41:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Just picked up my PMPX Copperhead at my local shop for $1,449.00 They received 20 of them today and have more on order. The shop is Tanners Sports Center in Jamison, PA and they will sell over the phone and ship to your dealer. Very impressed with the fit and finish and no the muzzle device does not come off. It is machined with the barrel as one piece. To be quite honest I tried sliding this thing around in various bags and cases and it is not going to hang up on anything. The dimensions of the upper and optic or whatever you choose to put on the top rail dwarfs the muzzle device and makes it difficult to snag unless you drag it around muzzle down in constant contact with objects. Hanging on a single point sling I couldn't get it to snag in any "realistic" situation.
Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet and not sure when I am with my schedule. I will submit my Form1 to SBR it and get rid of this brace ASAP. |
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Posted: 2/6/2019 10:06:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Shot mine this past Sunday. I only brought my 147grain reloads which run in every other gun I have (147gr plated bullet loaded with 3.9grs of win 231).
I had a failure to eject on almost every shot. I tried loading only one round and checking to see if the bolt would lock back on an empty mag and it would not. I tried both the 20 round mag and new genii 30 round mags and same results. Going to try some factory 115 grains next range session.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/7/2019 5:59:13 PM EDT
[#30]
If it’s like most other MPX’s it’ll need 200’ish rounds of 115 or 124 for break in
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Posted: 2/7/2019 6:08:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it’s like most other MPX’s it’ll need 200’ish rounds of 115 or 124 for break in |
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Posted: 2/8/2019 5:01:46 PM EDT
[#32]
Wow, I miss the old “Sig Sauer.”
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Posted: 2/8/2019 11:16:34 PM EDT
[#33]
I don’t. I’m incredibly happy and impressed with all of our current Sigs.
NO ONE is pushing the limits of design of firearms and optics more than Sig. Good on ya Sig |
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Posted: 2/8/2019 11:43:53 PM EDT
[#34]
Can anyone confirm an MPX barrel will work on this?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Per a video from Sig at Shot Show, you can put a MPX K barrel on the Copperhead. Perhaps a distributor will order a custom version with 4.5" threaded barrel at the same price point. |
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Posted: 2/9/2019 11:01:19 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can anyone confirm an MPX barrel will work on this? |
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Posted: 2/10/2019 3:24:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Shot mine for the first time yesterday. I love, love, love this little bugger. I brought along my SBR’d UZI Pro and SBR’d Scorpion Evo3 for comparison. First of all the recoil impulse on the Copperhead is much less than the UZI and much, much less than the Evo3. I have the same optic (Trijicon MRO) on all three so the accuracy comparison was the same and it was every bit as accurate as the other two. I only have 6 mags, the gen2 20 rounder that came with it and 3 gen1 20 rounders and 2 gen1 30 rounders. All mags ran flawlessly in the Copperhead locking back when empty with zero FTF’s or FTE’s. I shot about 300 rounds during its first session. All ammo was factory 115 grain ball ammo from three different manufacturers (Blazer Brass, PMC, & Parvi). I am left handed and the longer safety paddle bugged my trigger finger. I pulled the ambi safety out and checked. It is not reversible. I swapped it out for a Timney push type safety. The Timney is so sweet I am thinking about changing all of my AR lowers over to it. It looks and functions just like the safety on a Remington 870 Shotgun.
So far I am very pleased with this purchase. Now I just have to send in my Form1 to SBR it. |
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Posted: 2/13/2019 3:05:57 PM EDT
[#37]
I wound up buying a CopperHead today. I already have a couple MPX pistols, but this one is so tiny and was priced right. I got mine for $1469 which is a better price than most shops are selling them for these days.
Over all, I really like it. I don't shoot suppressed, so I am not worried about not having a threaded barrel. On my other MPXs, I had upgraded the charging handle to a Next Level Armament ambi charging handle. I may do the same on the Copperhead, or I may keep it factory as it is lower profile. |
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Posted: 2/13/2019 10:49:02 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can anyone confirm an MPX barrel will work on this? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can anyone confirm an MPX barrel will work on this? Quoted:
Per a video from Sig at Shot Show, you can put a MPX K barrel on the Copperhead. Perhaps a distributor will order a custom version with 4.5" threaded barrel at the same price point. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 8:53:11 AM EDT
[#39]
Follow up post about my Copperhead. First outing with it I was using my 147gr reloads and getting ejection problems on every shot. So this time I brought factory 124g nato win and 115 factory white box. Started with the 124s and the gun ran great. Put 200 rounds through it. Then used the win 115gr and again no problems.
Next Range session going to try my reloads again. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 1:06:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Follow up post about my Copperhead. First outing with it I was using my 147gr reloads and getting ejection problems on every shot. So this time I brought factory 124g nato win and 115 factory white box. Started with the 124s and the gun ran great. Put 200 rounds through it. Then used the win 115gr and again no problems. Next Range session going to try my reloads again. How did the 115 and 124 grain rounds group? I'm still trying to figure out if it's common for the lighter grain weights to have random flyers/grouping issues. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 1:09:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Seb1 How did the 115 and 124 grain rounds group? I'm still trying to figure out if it's common for the lighter grain weights to have random flyers/grouping issues. |
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Posted: 2/19/2019 1:44:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my experience, it takes no more time to charge it than it would to disengage a safety. Ever since then I have known that a chambered round is the right answer. You will get at least one shot that way. |
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Posted: 2/19/2019 7:22:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My biggest complaint is the muzzle device/design seems to impede on the possibility of getting a can onto it. I get that it probably wasn't designed around it but I love being able to throw a can on my PCCs. With the posted price at 1800, it should be 1600 or less at the actual shops, so this could be considered the economy model for people that might still be hesitant at the 1900+ price tag of the standard. Kind of lame that they ditched the ejection door. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 1:19:11 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shop local to me has them for 1,500 |
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Posted: 2/21/2019 12:27:04 AM EDT
[#45]
Do you know if the collapsible stock will be available?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry for the delay, been at SHOT with very little downtime. The CH comes in one configuration currently - that's the FDE/Coyote color with the fixed muzzle device. Exclusives with different configs are always an opportunity/possibility. Any questions, let me know. |
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Posted: 2/23/2019 2:09:35 PM EDT
[#46]
I’m thinking on getting one....... hell, I already have the GHM9, full size Zenith MP5 and a Colt SMG/ pistol clone, but I guess one more wouldn’t hurt anything except my wallet
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Posted: 2/23/2019 3:48:27 PM EDT
[#47]
If you still live in GA, head over to the Country Folks Superstore. They usually have one in stock for $1469 which is the cheapest I can find them anywhere around us.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m thinking on getting one....... hell, I already have the GHM9, full size Zenith MP5 and a Colt SMG/ pistol clone, but I guess one more wouldn’t hurt anything except my wallet |
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Posted: 2/23/2019 8:40:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wound up buying a CopperHead today. I already have a couple MPX pistols, but this one is so tiny and was priced right. I got mine for $1469 which is a better price than most shops are selling them for these days. Over all, I really like it. I don't shoot suppressed, so I am not worried about not having a threaded barrel. On my other MPXs, I had upgraded the charging handle to a Next Level Armament ambi charging handle. I may do the same on the Copperhead, or I may keep it factory as it is lower profile. |
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Posted: 3/1/2019 9:31:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Anyone tried to take the brace off yet? Going to F1 mine.
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Posted: 3/1/2019 10:31:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Wait, there's a threaded barrel now, with no ugly "flash hider" thingy?
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