Making a SBR go away

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Making a SBR go away

Posted: 8/9/2019 1:38:22 PM EDT

I am planning to sell my upper, since that can be used as a pistol upper, a 9mm. The question is what I should do to remove the receiver from the NFA registry?

Posted: 8/9/2019 1:43:27 PM EDT

[#1]

Archived thread

Not sure if this is of any help, but some of the comments on here answer it for the most part. Note that the thread is from several years ago, so idk how accurate that is to today's rules/regs.
I would say keep the lower as is..

Posted: 8/9/2019 2:09:55 PM EDT

[#2]

There is no reason to remove it from the registry, slap a normal upper on it and it is no longer an SBR, if you ever decide in the future to put a short upper on it, then no paperwork has to be filed. Best of both worlds.

Posted: 8/9/2019 3:52:16 PM EDT

[#3]

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There is no reason to remove it from the registry, slap a normal upper on it and it is no longer an SBR, if you ever decide in the future to put a short upper on it, then no paperwork has to be filed. Best of both worlds.

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This right here? Why waste the $200 and hassle you’ve already been through?

Posted: 8/9/2019 4:15:59 PM EDT

[#4]

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Quoted:
There is no reason to remove it from the registry, slap a normal upper on it and it is no longer an SBR, if you ever decide in the future to put a short upper on it, then no paperwork has to be filed. Best of both worlds.

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Can he travel across state lines with it in the non-SBR configuration or lend the registered lower to a friend if it has a 16”+ barreled upper on it? What about selling it?

Posted: 8/9/2019 4:17:23 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
I am planning to sell my upper, since that can be used as a pistol upper, a 9mm. The question is what I should do to remove the receiver from the NFA registry?

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I don't see a point to it. A lower isn't generally going to be worth much and the stamp is $200. Worst case I'd strip it and throw it in the safe for later. You're not going to get what it cost and the cost to replace it is much higher.

Posted: 8/9/2019 4:18:22 PM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:

This right here? Why waste the $200 and hassle you’ve already been through?

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Posted: 8/9/2019 4:18:41 PM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:
Can he travel across state lines with it in the non-SBR configuration or lend the registered lower to a friend if it has a 16”+ barreled upper on it? What about selling it?

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From everything I've read:
Yes
No
No

The first one does not involve a transfer of possession.

Posted: 8/9/2019 6:08:18 PM EDT

[#8]

FASPNI.
Good advice in both.

Posted: 8/9/2019 6:14:59 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
From everything I've read:
Yes
No
No

The first one does not involve a transfer of possession.

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View All Quotes

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Can he travel across state lines with it in the non-SBR configuration or lend the registered lower to a friend if it has a 16”+ barreled upper on it? What about selling it?

From everything I've read:
Yes
No
No

The first one does not involve a transfer of possession.

It's only under NFA purview when it's in an SBR configuration; otherwise, it's just another Title I firearm.

Posted: 8/9/2019 6:27:52 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
There is no reason to remove it from the registry, slap a normal upper on it and it is no longer an SBR, if you ever decide in the future to put a short upper on it, then no paperwork has to be filed. Best of both worlds.

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FTW

Posted: 8/9/2019 6:28:34 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:

From everything I've read:
Yes
No
No

The first one does not involve a transfer of possession.

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yes
yes
yes

Posted: 8/9/2019 7:31:21 PM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:

FTW

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What if you decided to throw a 16” upper on it and a few years down the road you move, different state or not. Would you have to notify and change address at some point?

Posted: 8/9/2019 8:08:02 PM EDT

[#13]

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What if you decided to throw a 16" upper on it and a few years down the road you move, different state or not. Would you have to notify and change address at some point?

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If moving to a different state (only), yes you'd have to do a 5320.20 for permanent move (unless you never want it to be a SBR anymore).

Posted: 8/9/2019 8:23:00 PM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:
What if you decided to throw a 16” upper on it and a few years down the road you move, different state or not. Would you have to notify and change address at some point?

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You do not have to notify ATF of an interstate move of a Title I firearm.

Posted: 8/9/2019 8:23:46 PM EDT

[#15]

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Quoted:

Can he travel across state lines with it in the non-SBR configuration or lend the registered lower to a friend if it has a 16”+ barreled upper on it? What about selling it?

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With a normal upper on it, it is no longer an SBR, it is only an SBR when it is configured as one, 16 inch upper on it, you don't even have to mention it has been tax stamped.

As long as it stays a title I configuration, you don't have to notify anyone of anything, if you think you want to put it back as an SBR once you move then you would have notify of a permanent move.

You guys are making it to complicated. It is only an NFA item when it is configured as an NFA item...

Posted: 8/10/2019 12:53:07 PM EDT

[#16]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the response and will just remove the upper and keep the lower as is should I decide something different in the future.

Posted: 8/12/2019 12:56:23 PM EDT

[#17]

unless you are on your deathbed or permanently leaving the country, never a good reason to take an AR lower off the registry...

Posted: 8/12/2019 1:21:26 PM EDT

[#18]

Even on your deathbed, you could will someone a tax-exempt SBR.

Posted: 8/16/2019 1:32:43 PM EDT

[#19]

Just write a signed letter to have your tax stamp cancelled and cite the reason that the firearm is no longer in it's title 2 configuration but has returned to it's title 1 configuration. Include the original stamp document.

They will return the letter with an approved or processed or withdrawn stamp attached to it.

Done it many times.

Posted: 8/16/2019 1:35:22 PM EDT

[#20]

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Done it many times.

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But why though?

Posted: 8/16/2019 1:40:26 PM EDT

[#21]

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Done it many times.

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Flushing $200 and the wait time down the toilet...

Posted: 8/16/2019 2:55:08 PM EDT

[#22]

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Quoted:
Just write a signed letter to have your tax stamp cancelled and cite the reason that the firearm is no longer in it's title 2 configuration but has returned to it's title 1 configuration. Include the original stamp document.

They will return the letter with an approved or processed or withdrawn stamp attached to it.

Done it many times.

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This makes no sense at all, when in title 1 configuration it is a title 1 firearm, with the option still open to configure as a title 2 if you want. Give you more flexibility going into the future. it will never make any sense to unstamp an SBR once you have waited and paid to do it.

Posted: 8/21/2019 2:59:17 AM EDT

[#23]

So if I SBR something and then move out of state, is there any reason not to put a 16" barrel on for the move and then once the paperwork comes back put the short barrel back on in the new state?

Posted: 8/21/2019 5:52:08 AM EDT

[#24]

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So if I SBR something and then move out of state, is there any reason not to put a 16" barrel on for the move and then once the paperwork comes back put the short barrel back on in the new state?

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Seems legit to me.

Posted: 8/21/2019 11:15:40 AM EDT

[#25]

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So if I SBR something and then move out of state, is there any reason not to put a 16" barrel on for the move and then once the paperwork comes back put the short barrel back on in the new state?

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There's no reason not to do that. Good plan.

Posted: 8/21/2019 11:35:32 AM EDT

[#26]

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Quoted:
So if I SBR something and then move out of state, is there any reason not to put a 16" barrel on for the move and then once the paperwork comes back put the short barrel back on in the new state?

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What are the plans for getting the short upper into the new state?

Posted: 8/21/2019 11:46:58 AM EDT

[#27]

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What are the plans for getting the short upper into the new state?

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In the same vehicle, if he also has a pistol lower.

Use a separate vehicle if not.

Posted: 8/21/2019 12:10:03 PM EDT

[#28]

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In the same vehicle, if he also has a pistol lower.

Use a separate vehicle if not.

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Oh, I know my answer. I’m curious as to his.

There is a paper-trail gap, but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen the ATF address it.

Posted: 8/21/2019 12:50:50 PM EDT

[#29]

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There is a paper-trail gap, but I'm not sure I've ever seen the ATF address it.

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Why would that matter?

Posted: 8/21/2019 1:00:58 PM EDT

[#30]

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There's no reason not to do that. Good plan.

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What if we don't have any pistol lowers, and we have more SBRs than non-SBRs?

Posted: 8/21/2019 1:02:40 PM EDT

[#31]

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Why would that matter?

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Because you filed a form to make an SBR in State A.
You’re in possession of that SBR in State B.
You have no approved 5320.20 that would’ve allowed you to take said SBR from A into B.

Explainable? Yes
Paper trail? No
Is it an issue?

Comes down to whether the 5320.20 is only necessary for the split second it takes to cross the state line...or is it necessary to be in possession of that item in the “To” state.

...and then does the examiner question it next time you file a 5320.20 for temporary travel and your From state is not the address of record in the registry? Again, all explainable, but I’ve never seen the ATF state what their expectations are in that situation.

Posted: 8/21/2019 1:03:34 PM EDT

[#32]

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What if we don't have any pistol lowers, and we have more SBRs than non-SBRs?

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Mail all the short uppers in a box to yourself.

Posted: 8/21/2019 1:07:32 PM EDT

[#33]

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Because you filed a form to make an SBR in State A.
You're in possession of that SBR in State B.
You have no approved 5320.20 that would've allowed you to take said SBR from A into B.

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Don't do this part.

You can bring the upper and lower to another state without it being a SBR.

"From" state would have to be wherever you moved from. Do a 5320.20 for permanent move, prior to sending any for temp travel.

Posted: 8/21/2019 1:10:48 PM EDT

[#34]

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Quoted:
Don't do this part.

You can bring the upper and lower to another state without it being a SBR.

"From" state would have to be wherever you moved from. Do a 5320.20 for permanent move, prior to sending any for temp travel.

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Sorry I added to the confusion. I went back and read his post, and he did mention not reassembling until approved forms came back.

The question has been asked here several times about the situation I described, and I made an incorrect assumption while the convo was in progress.

Posted: 8/26/2019 4:22:22 AM EDT

[#35]

Sort of an offshoot of the original question but if one were to remove an SBR from the registry and put a regular rifle length upper on the lower, would the "new" gun be legally required to have a serial number?

If so, would it have to be the original serial number that the manufacturer engraved on the lower (if applicable)/the serial number one chose when creating the SBR or could you engrave an entirely new/different serial number onto the "new" gun?

I'm not asking about this in an effort to break/circumvent any laws FWIW, I have follow up questions depending on the answers though.

Posted: 8/26/2019 4:37:48 AM EDT

[#36]

N4411

Posted: 8/26/2019 7:19:05 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sort of an offshoot of the original question but if one were to remove an SBR from the registry and put a regular rifle length upper on the lower, would the "new" gun be legally required to have a serial number?

If so, would it have to be the original serial number that the manufacturer engraved on the lower (if applicable)/the serial number one chose when creating the SBR or could you engrave an entirely new/different serial number onto the "new" gun?

I'm not asking about this in an effort to break/circumvent any laws FWIW, I have follow up questions depending on the answers though.

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No reason for a new SN.

Posted: 8/26/2019 10:54:22 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sort of an offshoot of the original question but if one were to remove an SBR from the registry and put a regular rifle length upper on the lower, would the "new" gun be legally required to have a serial number?

View Quote

It wouldn't be a new firearm, and it would already have a serial number (which you cannot legally alter/remove).

It simply would not be a Title II (NFA) firearm anymore, but that happens the moment you swap the Title I upper onto it, not when you notify ATF to update the registry.
Notifying ATF just prevents it from going back to NFA without another $200 tax.

Posted: 9/6/2019 5:06:53 PM EDT

[#39]

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It wouldn't be a new firearm, and it would already have a serial number (which you cannot legally alter/remove).

It simply would not be a Title II (NFA) firearm anymore, but that happens the moment you swap the Title I upper onto it, not when you notify ATF to update the registry.
Notifying ATF just prevents it from going back to NFA without another $200 tax.

View Quote

It's a title I receiver as soon as there's not a barrel attached to it as well.