Quoted:
Just doing some web searching, I see that Ciener has a bit of bad history in the firearms community.  Does anyone know if that has been resolved, and if his is considered a good 22lr conversion kit?  The videos of it in action on the Tenko adapter certainly seem convincing.

Quoted:
Just doing some web searching, I see that Ciener has a bit of bad history in the firearms community.  Does anyone know if that has been resolved, and if his is considered a good 22lr conversion kit?  The videos of it in action on the Tenko adapter certainly seem convincing.

Quoted:
Once we have cash flow I plan to buy an AM-180 and adapt the fire control for use with the Tenko adapter.

Scott

Quoted:

What do you mean by this?

A conversion for your conversion?

Or a purpose built upper for a Mac 11/10/11a1?

Think id prefer a purpose built upper. Something that uses the AM180 drums, 10/22 bolts & extractors and a way to vary the rate of fire.

Edit: All for under $1,000

Quoted:

It is my understanding that Tactical Innovations is working on a AM-180 for the M11/NINE. Retail price is supposed to be $2,000. But the  M11/NINE version is not yet available. So my plan is to buy a M16 version that is available. Then I can use it with the Tenko adapter or a M16 if I so desire. I  only have one M11/NINE, but I have multiple M10s. Certainly no one was buy a Tenko just for the AM-180. but I  have multiple platforms I could use the M16 version on as apposed to one that I could use the M11/NINE version on.

Scott

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Yeah I’m not holding my breath on tactical innovations actually getting one to market. I hope the best for them.

Would like to see someone else beat them to the punch.

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No discussion of attempted alternative implementations of AM180 drums is complete without mention of the Bazooka Bros adapter as illustrated and described here:

pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0&docid=20100083818&IDKey=B9CE8BB477A9&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fappft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPG01%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.html%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D%25252220100083818%252522.PGNR.%2526OS%3DDN%2F20100083818%2526RS%3DDN%2F20100083818

One of these could snap right into a Tenko magwell, and then the AM180 drum could be slid right on.

Quoted:

It would be very doubtful that another company would bring the same product that has already been submitted. The Mac style RR is a small niche market. Now is not a great time for submission of a new product. In my last inquiry about the Tenko adapter the person answering my inquiry didn't actually look up my information. The response I got would seem to be based on just the recent number for the second submission. We received, in part "Current response times for industry (FFL holders) is longer than 6 months. All other inquiries will be worked after industry as time permits in the order they are received.". We received an email on March 8th in part read "Your submitted sample referenced #310669 has been completed and is pending Chief’s review and signature." We wrote back for clarification as to whether the evaluation has or has not been done on April 22nd. We have not received anything back as of this posting.

Scott

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Welp, time to get on the list. I might be able to get the upper by the time my stamp comes through. It looks like the shrike belt fed and  CMMG kits, will work, I wonder if the CMMG radial delay bolts will wokr? Or the BRN-180 uppers when they come out?

Quoted:

Lets be clear, if expenses are tax deductible, you don't pay tax on that money.  Currently, between what we have already spent and what we have ordered, we have over $100,000 in this project.  Then there is time; I have well over 2,000 hours in this project with several more hundred to go, all while working my full time job.  So from my perspective, that is all overtime.  I also don't work for minimum wage.  Would you begrudge me my wage?  Yes, $2,995 for just an adapter is a lot of money.  If you already own a M16, the adapter was not designed for you.  But if you are someone where the M10 or M11/NINE is your only machinegun and you want the functionality of a M16 or you are priced out of a M16 but they can come up with around half that, the functionality of a M16 is possible.

As far as investment, most are aware of shows like "Dragon's Den" and "Shark Tank".  If not look it up.  From the research I have done, the shows are very generous.  Most investing in such a niche market would want 3/4 ownership or more. So we would do all of this to make someone else money.  We are fortunate enough to be in a place that we can come up with the funds on our own, so we have taken on the whole risk.  I am closing in on retirement.  $100,000 is an enormous amount of money to us.  We hope that we make a profit.  But there is no guarantee.

As far as aesthetics, it is what it is.  We have tried to do what we could.  This is an adapter, not a ground up firearm design.  But we have three units that have 10,000 rounds of use and have run great. I love sharing my full auto with other shooters.  My first machinegun was a Colt M16.  Now we can give a similar experience I had to other shooters that might not be able to afford a M16.  I get that the look is unusual, but it has grown on me over time.  The function is what really counts to me.  My firearms are tools more than collector items.  YMMV.

Scott

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Scott, ignore the haters!  Us one MG M10 owners applaud you!  I am on the list and anxiously waiting for approval!

Quoted:

Thank you for the kind words. This has been by far the most difficult interaction with the NFA Branch for me. At least with a transfer there is some kind of "ballpark of when I would get an answer. I have asked several times and have gotten no response. I even wrote to the Chief of the FATD. It has been a couple of weeks and still nothing. I am so frustrated. We should have the first 30 units next week. But we still have not gotten a determination for the aluminum version. Even though what I sent was basically an aluminum version of the 3D printed version we had to resubmit because of the material change.

Scott

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Any updates?

Quoted:
Just saw in this thread https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Magpul-AR-Arm-Braces/5-2288625/ the ATF isn’t issuing letters anymore. @Canon3825 ?

ETA: I guess add me to the short list of people that would FO without a letter... since they won’t do them anymore.