Looking for guidance with a 9mm "subgun". - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Looking for guidance with a 9mm "subgun". (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 1/6/2020 9:44:09 PM EDT

So Ive been kicking around a few options for a 9mm but I cant seem to land firmly on a choice. I haven't really been able to sit and do comparison research so I thought Id ask for some input. The options I'm deciding between are:

CZ Scorpion
Sig MPX
HK SP5

The Scorpion has a distinct price advantage going for it and Im a pretty big CZ fan. I could put a lot of money into it and probably still spend less than, if not the same amount as, the next expensive option.
The MPX appeals to me because I like its AR familiarity. I also actually really like the carbine version, unlike the Scorpion. And since I live in a pistol registration state, I probably wouldn't mind going with the carbine version, although compact is kind of the whole point... so I dunno. Something to consider though.
The SP5 definitely has the cool factor going for it... but its expensive as shit and not exactly easy to come by right now.

I was also stuck on the Tommy Built KSM9 for a while because Ive always thought the UMP was sexy as hell, but I cant imagine it replacing the other options. Especially since HK released the SP5, and if Im going to get an HK gun, I might as well get an *HK* gun. I thought Id mention it anyway.

Anything I should know or consider?

*Edited: Decided on the Scorpion*

Posted: 1/6/2020 10:37:17 PM EDT

[#1]

Don't forget to look at the various B&T guns, like the APC or the GHM.

Posted: 1/6/2020 11:54:40 PM EDT

[#2]

You cant go wrong with the real deal HK...

Posted: 1/7/2020 12:31:27 AM EDT

[#3]

Mpx imo

Posted: 1/7/2020 7:37:27 AM EDT

[#4]

You may want to read through this thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Straight-blowback-is-100-unacceptable-imo/48-500494/

A lot of opinions flying back and forth in that thread.

I have a full auto MPX and MP5 and like the CMMG RDB more than both of them.

Have friends with CZ's but as discussed in that thread, don't like straight blowback SMG's.

I have tried putty much all of the options out there and my personal preference is the CMMG Radially Delayed Blowback (RDB) previously called the 'Guard'.

All AR controls and the only thing that is proprietary is the BCG and the barrel (however, the barrel is just a 9mm barrel with an extension) so anyone that knows how to headspace a barrel can make one.

If you already have an AR lower, you can just build your own for $350 retail (BCG/BBL combo). Then get the Endomags to run 9mm in your unmodified 556 lower.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Straight-blowback-is-100-unacceptable-imo/48-500494/?page=2#i5135962

Posted: 1/7/2020 9:07:54 AM EDT

[#5]

Among the 3 you listed the Evo is the best compromise.
(of course Im an Evo owner)
the Sig is interesting but the price factor is hard to beat. Another cheap opton would be the Stribog.

IMHO the Sig & the Evo > HK
the Hk is the AK47 of the PCC world.. no BHO, not optic friendly, etc. and its price wont help.

the debate of blowback vs delayed is really a 1st world problem.. truth is blowback will suppress just fine and the recoil is plenty mangeable.

Posted: 1/7/2020 1:39:05 PM EDT

[#6]

I've owned the CZ and the MP5. Still own the CZ.

The MP5KPDW was a SBR'd MKE clone, good fit and finish, but it had some reliability issues, couldnt mount an optic without janky rail systems, no solid means of using a light, expensive mags, etc etc etc

The CZ is very much more adaptable, every bit as accurate, and has has zero reliability issues. I've messed with HK, MKE, PTR, and other MP5 clones, and I feel like while they have the sexy/nostalgia factor going for them, they are largely outdated and outclassed in the PDW/SMG world now. Even more so when you consider the price.

I vote Scorpion

Posted: 1/7/2020 6:31:51 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Among the 3 you listed the Evo is the best compromise.
(of course Im an Evo owner)
the Sig is interesting but the price factor is hard to beat. Another cheap opton would be the Stribog.

IMHO the Sig & the Evo > HK
the Hk is the AK47 of the PCC world.. no BHO, not optic friendly, etc. and its price wont help.

the debate of blowback vs delayed is really a 1st world problem.. truth is blowback will suppress just fine and the recoil is plenty mangeable.

View Quote

Quoted:
I've owned the CZ and the MP5. Still own the CZ.

The MP5KPDW was a SBR'd MKE clone, good fit and finish, but it had some reliability issues, couldnt mount an optic without janky rail systems, no solid means of using a light, expensive mags, etc etc etc

The CZ is very much more adaptable, every bit as accurate, and has has zero reliability issues. I've messed with HK, MKE, PTR, and other MP5 clones, and I feel like while they have the sexy/nostalgia factor going for them, they are largely outdated and outclassed in the PDW/SMG world now. Even more so when you consider the price.

I vote Scorpion

View Quote

Yeah, the outdated MP5 design kept coming up in my thinking too. I kept thinking of it like an AK47. No matter how cool I think they are, how much I love them or how viable I feel like they may still be, theyre still outdated compared to other options. Slap a massive price tag on top of being an outdated design and it kind of loses some of its appeal, especially when it comes to comparison shopping. If I had to choose and was thinking practically, I dont think Id buy a $2,500+ AK over an AR with proven quality that costs less than half as much.

Of course, I totally still want an SP5, but I cant help but feel like I should probably go with something a little more modern/practical first.

I seem to keep leaning towards the Scorpion though. I cant recall anything regarding quality/reliability issues and the price difference is hard to ignore. I know it has some little design quirks like the grip angle and the right side(?) safety selector, but there seems to be plenty of options for solutions. I feel like early on I was a little skeptical of the Scorpion for some reason. Its like I kept waiting for reports of the charging handle having a tendency to break or something, but I cant say Ive ever heard complaints about anything other than the little quirky parts people dont like very much.

Maybe I should just stop overthinking and just go with the Scorpion. I havent had time to do a lot of research, but if the MPX was made of magic or something Id probably have caught wind of that by now.

Posted: 1/7/2020 6:57:24 PM EDT

[#8]

I have Zenith Z-5RS (MP5 clone), CZ Scorpion, and CMMG Guard SBRs. I like shooting the CZ the least because of the straight blowback action, but it handily wins on price. The Zenith is a classic design, but expensive, and lacks a lot of “modern” features. The CMMG is a good compromise, softer shooting than pure blowback, less expensive than a MP5 (or clone), and since it’s basically an AR design, you have a ton of aftermarket available. Also, no 922r hassles if you decide to SBR.

Also have a MPX carbine, the first release with the keymod handguard and pinned FH barrel. It’s OK, but a bit heavy in carbine form. I may end up SBRing it.

Posted: 1/7/2020 7:03:42 PM EDT

[#9]

If you think you may want a bullpup, the CZ Scorpion bullpup kit from Manticore Arms is now available. As I understand, it will be available as a factory option in the future.

Posted: 1/7/2020 7:09:30 PM EDT

[#10]

My only issue with the Evo was with crappy translucent mags.. they all had cracked feedlips.. no matter what year they were mfg.. 2013, 2015 and 2016 they all cracked.. the only one still intact is a 2012 made one.

The black windowed mags are perfect. And a few other options are available.

Posted: 1/7/2020 7:12:25 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have Zenith Z-5RS (MP5 clone), CZ Scorpion, and CMMG Guard SBRs. I like shooting the CZ the least because of the straight blowback action, but it handily wins on price. The Zenith is a classic design, but expensive, and lacks a lot of “modern” features. The CMMG is a good compromise, softer shooting than pure blowback, less expensive than a MP5 (or clone), and since it’s basically an AR design, you have a ton of aftermarket available. Also, no 922r hassles if you decide to SBR.

Also have a MPX carbine, the first release with the keymod handguard and pinned FH barrel. It’s OK, but a bit heavy in carbine form. I may end up SBRing it.

View Quote

Whats wrong with straight blowback?

Posted: 1/7/2020 7:21:55 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
My only issue with the Evo was with crappy translucent mags.. they all had cracked feedlips.. no matter what year they were mfg.. 2013, 2015 and 2016 they all cracked.. the only one still intact is a 2012 made one.

The black windowed mags are perfect. And a few other options are available.

View Quote

Oh shit... I cant believe I forgot about that. Now that you mention it, I remember that totally turning me off to the gun.
I know theres other options, and honestly Id probably just end up using only Magpul mags, but the idea of not feeling comfortable using factory mags always kills it for me.

Posted: 1/7/2020 7:22:54 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
If you think you may want a bullpup, the CZ Scorpion bullpup kit from Manticore Arms is now available. As I understand, it will be available as a factory option in the future.

View Quote

Eh... I dont know. Whenever I see the bullpup version it makes my stomach hurt for some reason haha.

Posted: 1/7/2020 8:14:03 PM EDT

[#14]

I wouldn't get into an HK vs. SIG vs. CZ vs. (whatever) argument on a dare.....but would add this.....

Consider ownership down the road.....accessory and replacement parts availability.......

In the future, importability of parts may become an issue.... and your Stribog or B&T could become a paperweight if something breaks

Posted: 1/7/2020 8:25:16 PM EDT

[#15]

Mp5 for me hands down, still the best SMG

Posted: 1/7/2020 8:36:08 PM EDT

[#16]

Scorpion is awesome.

But hard to deny an mp5

Posted: 1/7/2020 9:18:15 PM EDT

[#17]

Own all three in the OP. As much as I have to puke in my mouth to recommend Sig the MPX would be my choice.

Granted we’re talking 9mm here but the Scorpion feels like a brick on a shoebox where as the MPX and MP5 are just so much softer shooting. As mentioned, CZ’s cracked mags are another huge negative.

Posted: 1/7/2020 10:19:48 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
Mp5 for me hands down, still the best SMG

View Quote

Same. Soft shooting, utterly reliable, the best suppressor host bar none. Best magazines as well, you can run them over with a truck and they still work.

I don't care for the MPX, it doesn't suppress well. Besides, I refuse to own anything out of Sig NH.

The worst option is the Scorpion. Scorpion is the only SBR I ever sold. Cheap, heavy recoiling garbage IMO. Absolutely nothing pleasant about the thing

The UMP is a better quality Scorpion at 4x the cost for the same bumpy ride. I'm glad I have one because I love all things HK but I never shoot it, it is totally outclassed by the roller delayed action of the MP5.

Someone mentioned the B&T's, they are fun and have the ergonomic advantages the SP5 lacks. But still are blowback and not as pleasant suppressed.

The CMMG roller delayed stuff is worth a look if you are competing and need to run the gun as fast as humanly possible. But I shoot SMG's to enjoy them, and I don't find anything particularly enjoyable about AR pattern guns.

Posted: 1/7/2020 10:25:15 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Whats wrong with straight blowback?

View Quote

Straight blowback is a crude method of operation that makes a CZ Scorpion recoil harder than a 5.56 AR.

Posted: 1/7/2020 11:40:03 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Straight blowback is a crude method of operation that makes a CZ Scorpion recoil harder than a 5.56 AR.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Whats wrong with straight blowback?

Straight blowback is a crude method of operation that makes a CZ Scorpion recoil harder than a 5.56 AR.

I have thousands of rounds through my Scorpion, many of which have been fire by my 10 year old son, who shoots it much better than the similar sized AR and Galil SBRs that I have.

If the recoil is *more* than an AR, I sure as shit have never noticed.

Posted: 1/8/2020 8:16:57 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

Oh shit... I cant believe I forgot about that. Now that you mention it, I remember that totally turning me off to the gun.
I know theres other options, and honestly Id probably just end up using only Magpul mags, but the idea of not feeling comfortable using factory mags always kills it for me.

View Quote

Latest gen Factory black mags works perfectly.

Posted: 1/8/2020 8:19:41 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

Whats wrong with straight blowback?

View Quote

Nothing. At least in 9mm.

Companies needs to sell solutions looking for a problem..
BB is a cheap simple and reliable system that just works.

Posted: 1/8/2020 3:32:41 PM EDT

[#23]

SP5 is the better of the three, but given it cost almost 3x a scorpion, I sure hope so... and the mags cost 3x too, I sense a theme.

for the money its hard to beat a scorpion and if you are a huge CZ fan, I think it would be hard to go wrong.

I have an MP5 clone SBR becuase I watched way too many action movies in the 1980s. I have a B&T GMH45 because I like Swiss things and 45 acp...

The MPX is probably better too, but not nearly worth the premium over a Scorpion and then you have to deal with Sig changing the design every couple years. The aftermarket on the Scorpion is awesome and that goes a long way, esp if you ever SBR it.

Posted: 1/8/2020 3:46:21 PM EDT

[#24]

I own the CZ Skorpion (pistol w/brace) an HK SP5k (also braced) and an HK94 that was SBR’d to MP5 specs (I also use it a s an MG sear host).

While I like the CZ and shoot it from time to time, I really have to give top preference to either of my HK guns.

The Skorpion runs 100% (like the HKs). However, I had to put a few hundred $$$ in upgrades to set-up the CZ the way I wanted it. Make sure you are comparing “all-in” costs, including sourcing reliable magazines, the cost of a brace/stock, upgrades, etc.

Posted: 1/8/2020 7:08:21 PM EDT

[#25]

+1 to what Amphibian said.

Even if you follow his recommended build list with the higher end buffer setup you will be comparable to a braced scorpion price point. IMO it shoots softer/smoother/better suppression than the MPX and Scorpion. compared to an MP5 the "shooting feel" is similar but the ergos are much better (and more customizable).

Ive shot all 3 you mentioned and I own an APC9. The CMMG build is my favorite.

Plus if you already have an SBR'd Lower you can just slap it on top with endomags and you are done. And you can build a 5, 8, or 16 inch version.

Posted: 1/9/2020 3:50:07 PM EDT

[#26]

Heavy recoil in a 9mm carbine/big pistol? Is this the really short MP5K sized Scorpions?

Posted: 1/9/2020 3:58:57 PM EDT

[#27]

I don’t think that anyone is saying that 9mm straight blowback is brutal or really bothersome. It’s just that the various delayed blowback guns are noticeably softer shooting and many people find that a little more enjoyable.

Posted: 1/9/2020 4:43:19 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
I don’t think that anyone is saying that 9mm straight blowback is brutal or really bothersome. It’s just that the various delayed blowback guns are noticeably softer shooting and many people find that a little more enjoyable.

View Quote

Everything in life is a compromise..
there’s huge room for improvements over straight blowback for sure.. at higher price, more parts or more machining required, etc.
Outside the sporting community I don’t think the delayed system will see much use.

There’s an interesting thread about this topic in the PCC section.. some people really think that BB is so evil..

Posted: 1/9/2020 5:18:55 PM EDT

[#29]

I have to say... if I was going to build a 9MM PCC ( or buy ) one today... I wouldn't go straight blowback.

While my Colt Pattern 9MM PCC is fun and reliable, the thing runs "smoothest" with a Tubbs .308 Flatwire, a 7.5oz buffer, all in a carbine length buffer tube. And the difference between the OEM setup and the "heavy" setup is night and day.

I'd be far happier with it being smooth with a conv. carbine recoil spring and average buffer weight.

The bolt gets slammed against the breach pretty hard from the heavy recoil spring and buffer/bolt mass. I wonder how much bolt bounce I might be experiencing.

Something mechanically delaying of the bolt movement would allow the use of lighter recoil springs and buffer weights. And probably be "cleaner" running, since the gas and crud isn't allowed into the chamber as "quickly"... maybe soon is a better word.

Posted: 1/9/2020 5:51:45 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Scorpion is awesome.

But hard to deny an mp5

View Quote

^^This

Posted: 1/9/2020 5:54:37 PM EDT

[#31]

Well I tried to write a pretty detailed post since I own or have owned some of the above listed firearms but I guess my account is too new to post more than 200 characters

So I'll keep it at, I love my HBI modded scorpion and I don't feel like you can go wrong with that choice. It is a bit heavy however

Posted: 1/12/2020 1:42:24 AM EDT

[#32]

I own multiples of each. Here's my take:

CZ EVO: Probably the best bang:buck ratio going. Coolest design of the 3. Controls are pretty good but could use tweaking, specifically the thumb safety is just ridiculously long; fortunately, a wide array of replacement options exist. Accuracy is good, though I haven't sat down and really wrung it out at 100 yards or anything. Iron sights pretty good. It jumps around a bit on recoil. I haven't personally had mag problems but I feel confident any issues will eventually be worked out on the aftermarket, if not factory.

MPX: Modern refinement and most AR-like. So AR-like it's kind of boring IMO. The triggers on both mine are laughably bad. Heavy and god-awful creep. Additionally (it may be the pistol grip), the tip of the trigger digs into my finger painfully. You can buy a $300 Geissele for improvement but goddamn. Mags are expensive. Some of my PCC competing buddies claim that they have to go back for a rebuild at 20k rounds. They are fun and smooth to shoot, though, and the handguard design is neato, basically it can be removed when you take the upper off because it's retained with the front pivot pin. There are several generations which confuses matters, and SIG being SIG, it wouldn't surprise me if some discontinuation-fuckery comes down the line eventually.

MP5: Most classic, iconic design of the 3. Softest shooting and very accurate. Mags aren't all that expensive and neither is the gun if you manage to find a good price on a clone. Accessories can be pricey especially stocks, and the variants can be confusing, but plenty of surplus parts out there. The action gets pretty filthy. Optic use can be janky if you don't have a model with welded-on optic rail, and even then, the permanent ring front sight is distracting. But man are they fun to shoot. They are reliable unless you get one with fucked up assembly and welding, which can happen with clones... and it's usually a bitch to fix.

Posted: 1/12/2020 12:59:03 PM EDT

[#33]

If the Hk is so outdated then why are these other manufacturers trying to come up with delayed roller lock designs?

Posted: 1/12/2020 2:18:43 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
If the Hk is so outdated then why are these other manufacturers trying to come up with delayed roller lock designs?

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The design may be outdated, but they realized HK priced themselves high enough to ignore a lot of buyers. I didn't pay over $1200 for any of my HK clones, and I wouldn't have, either.

Posted: 1/12/2020 4:57:46 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
If the Hk is so outdated then why are these other manufacturers trying to come up with delayed roller lock designs?

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The HK is outdated not because of the delayed system but because the MP5 is stuck in the 80’s... stamped sheet metal, not optic friendly, no BHO, etc

IMHO a delayed system is worthless in a 9mm.. but may be a great option for larger pistol calibers like 10mm..

Posted: 1/12/2020 6:14:47 PM EDT

[#36]

Unappreciated, over looked, and under rated - the Mini Uzi carbine. Magazines that are so good they are the universal standard, as well as cheap because over 9 million Uzi SMGs were made. Magazine capacities for 9mm at 10, 20, 25, 32, 40, and 100 rounds plus stick mag couplers that provide mix and match in between. Relatively light weight, simple blow back design operation, and yet low recoil. Railed top covers available for optics, if desired. Simple, elegant, side folding stock - another universal standard. An ideal mix of steel and plastic that optimizes strength and minimizes overall weight. Easily converts between 9mm and .45 ACP in seconds. An iconic member of The Terrifying Three.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to pursue, and be well.

Posted: 1/12/2020 8:57:38 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
Unappreciated, over looked, and under rated - the Mini Uzi carbine. Magazines that are so good they are the universal standard, as well as cheap because over 9 million Uzi SMGs were made. Magazine capacities for 9mm at 10, 20, 25, 32, 40, and 100 rounds plus stick mag couplers that provide mix and match in between. Relatively light weight, simple blow back design operation, and yet low recoil. Railed top covers available for optics, if desired. Simple, elegant, side folding stock - another universal standard. An ideal mix of steel and plastic that optimizes strength and minimizes overall weight. Easily converts between 9mm and .45 ACP in seconds. An iconic member of The Terrifying Three.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to pursue, and be well.

View Quote

Ahh...Mini UZI....my personal favorite SMG. Below is mine.
Full auto. I have it in open and closed bolt. Although I don't like it in closed bolt. Open bolt is so much smoother with its advanced primer ignition.
ETA...I forgot the picture I posted above has my Mini as well.

Posted: 1/19/2020 10:27:37 PM EDT

[#38]

Okay, so all things considered I decided on the Scorpion.
Thanks for the input, it helped.

Now I just need to find one. Seems like I haven't seen a black pistol config. in a long time.

Posted: 2/13/2020 5:33:37 PM EDT

[#39]

I built a Glock mag AR and a Colt mag AR.
For some reason neither really grabbed me.
Sold them.

Never been drawn to the Scorpion but I shot a friend’s quite a bit.
Doesn’t do anything for me.

I think I always wanted an MP5 but did not want to lay out the cash.
Finally bought a POF MP5 made on HK tooling.
Haven’t had it long, but it feels “right”.
Some of the non-HK MP5s look and feel and shoot really great.
POFs are $1400 right now.

My point is, whichever gun you are really drawn to, bite the bullet and get that one.
You won’t regret it,

Posted: 2/13/2020 9:58:30 PM EDT

[#40]

Well since this got bumped up, Ill add that I finally found a black Scorpion and bought it yesterday.

I still have to shoot it but I can tell Im in love already. I do question what drunkard designed the safety and grip though. Ive heard it was annoying, but holy shit... it was pissing me off just while I was looking it over when I brought it home.

Shopping for upgrades right now.

Posted: 2/14/2020 8:17:59 AM EDT

[#41]

well to be honest the safety & grip never bother me using the OEM stock.
anyway congrats on your new Evo

Posted: 2/14/2020 10:19:02 AM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
I built a Glock mag AR and a Colt mag AR.
For some reason neither really grabbed me.
Sold them.
....

View Quote

Did you try a 9mm AR with the Gibbz Arms G9 patent style left side charge upper? https://gibbzarms.com/product/g49-side-charging-upper-receiver/ New Frontier Armory also sells them (under license to Gibbz, I assume).

It has a much more "subgun" look and feel than what a standard AR upper provides, and there is virtually no gas blow back.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

Posted: 2/14/2020 1:15:04 PM EDT

[#43]

I have a PTR mp5 clone, Omega Gideon (HK UMP clone), and a B&T APC9 pro

It is a tough choice for me, between the PTR and the B&T. B&T has the best trigger of any, and it should for the price.

The UMP has the worst trigger but has the cool look. The B&T is pretty much a very very nice UMP with a cool buffer that is effective.

But you can never replace how sweet the mp5 platform is to shoot with a blow back gun. The B&T is close though.

If I had to pick just one, cost aside, it would be the B&T

Couple little things on the Gideon, first instead of the roll pin for the barrel, they had a push pint that was too lose. I picked up a handful of pins and all is well. The second was the extractor was wonky, picked up an extractor and that was good. It is cool because with a barrel, bolt and a mag, you can be in a different caliber. Mine is in 9mm and at some point I will pick up a 45 or maybe a 40.

Posted: 2/14/2020 2:19:20 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
well to be honest the safety & grip never bother me using the OEM stock.
anyway congrats on your new Evo

View Quote

I already had a tailhook stock adapter waiting for when I got the Scorpion, so I put that on right away. I dont know how much different an of an experience an OEM stock could possibly make, but the safety was immediately irritating to me just handling the gun. I dont know. Maybe I just have especially soft feminine hands.

Im sure I could live with the grip if I really had to, but I just dont really care for the angle of it. Its the combo of the safety digging into the finger along with the grip angle that makes me wonder what someone was thinking in that whole area.

Posted: 2/14/2020 2:46:38 PM EDT

[#45]

I recommend the HBI AK safety or small AK safety. I personally liked the larger one but can't use it with the binary trigger.

Posted: 2/14/2020 2:52:39 PM EDT

[#46]

I don't mind the grip at all, but the safety lever interfering with the trigger finger path is just

.

This was the one I ended up using (the short one):

https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/store/p115/PMM_CZ_Scorpion_EVO_3_S1_Safety_Selector_Levers.html

Posted: 2/14/2020 3:32:57 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
I recommend the HBI AK safety or small AK safety. I personally liked the larger one but can't use it with the binary trigger.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:
I recommend the HBI AK safety or small AK safety. I personally liked the larger one but can't use it with the binary trigger.

Quoted:
I don't mind the grip at all, but the safety lever interfering with the trigger finger path is just

.

This was the one I ended up using (the short one):

https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/store/p115/PMM_CZ_Scorpion_EVO_3_S1_Safety_Selector_Levers.html

I ordered an HBI AK safety last night with a few other parts.
I went with the long safety. I like how it kind of covers the trigger guard when the safety is on.

Posted: 2/14/2020 8:19:26 PM EDT

[#48]

*Beep Beep*

Master PDW platform coming through

Leave the bloated antiques of the 20th century where they belong.

Posted: 2/19/2020 8:51:06 AM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
*Beep Beep*

Master PDW platform coming through

https://i.imgur.com/RM0GQHp.jpg

Leave the bloated antiques of the 20th century where they belong.

View Quote

I would not call that the master PDW platform. IMO that designation goes to the b&t TP9-N.

Posted: 2/23/2020 11:48:48 AM EDT

[#50]

Out of the three you listed I have two. I really like the mp5k style of gun as it was a grail gun but I do agree the scorpion is a better performer and gets lots of aftermarket love.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Looking for guidance with a 9mm "subgun". (Page 1 of 2)

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