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Posted: 1/7/2019 9:58:59 AM EDT
Liberty has a fairly new video out showing the strength of the locking bar door system they are using rather than the round pins they used to use. I think the square bars are now used in all the Liberty safes. Not sure about the National Security line.
Anyway, the video is a "pry test" that seems to be a copy of the Sturdy "forklift" test from a few years ago. I like the idea of the locking bar vs pins since the locking bar is a solid piece rather than pins that are welded or bolted to the internal lockwork.  New Military Style Locking Bars 1 |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 10:11:43 AM EDT
[#1]
When did they start using the flat bars? (Off to check my liberty safe when I get home lol)
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Posted: 1/7/2019 10:17:27 AM EDT
[#2]
One thing I've wondered why safe makers don't do, is inset the door farther into the safe, so it's harder or impossible to get a bar into the crack around the door.
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Posted: 1/7/2019 10:20:28 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing I've wondered why safe makers don't do, is inset the door farther into the safe, so it's harder or impossible to get a bar into the crack around the door. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 10:22:30 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When did they start using the flat bars? (Off to check my liberty safe when I get home lol) |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 10:45:52 AM EDT
[#5]
Round shiny locking pins are for marketing. Often they are attached to a weak mechanism in cheap RSC boxes.
Huge pins or bars don't do much if the door and walls are thin. The door is often pounded in, not pried out. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 10:49:42 AM EDT
[#6]
My Treadlock has rectangular bars. Bought it in 1993-1994.
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Posted: 1/7/2019 11:43:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Round shiny locking pins are for marketing. Often they are attached to a weak mechanism in cheap RSC boxes. Huge pins or bars don't do much if the door and walls are thin. The door is often pounded in, not pried out. No comment on the thickness (or lack thereof) of the doors. I don't know if Liberty is using any sort of internal plate or not to reinforce. As far as I know the door is nothing more than 10 or 11 guage sheet metal with some sheetrock inside. I think the only Liberty safes that use a plate door are the high end National Security. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 12:01:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what Ft Knox does on the M2 series. Seems to make sense and I also wonder why other companies don't do likewise. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 12:25:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Round shiny locking pins are for marketing. Often they are attached to a weak mechanism in cheap RSC boxes. Huge pins or bars don't do much if the door and walls are thin. The door is often pounded in, not pried out. Just about every gun "safe" out there is an RSC, regardless of the style of locking mechanism. Even Ft. Knox "safes" are RSCs. If you want an actual, UL-rated safe, especially one big enough to hold long guns, you're into six-figure territory for a new one, plus reinforcements for floors and professional installation. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 1:05:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's keep it between the lines, Sparky. Just about every gun "safe" out there is an RSC, regardless of the style of locking mechanism. Even Ft. Knox "safes" are RSCs. If you want an actual, UL-rated safe, especially one big enough to hold long guns, you're into six-figure territory for a new one, plus reinforcements for floors and professional installation. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 2:12:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cost... it's all about cost for many... deeper recessed door means less volume and a small amount more steel. Nobody wants to pay more money for less volume. Even though it would only be marginally more cost and marginal volume loss, the race to the bottom in safes is a tight one. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 3:28:49 PM EDT
[#12]
My Treadlock has rectangular bars. Bought it in 1993-1994. And these types of tests can be somewhat misleading. Just like a magician hides the "magic", safe manufacturers like to hide the weaknesses by distracting your attention to things that make the safe appear to be stronger than it actually is. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 4:03:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Square/rectangular bolts have been used for hundreds of years. Quote HistoryQuoted: Square/rectangular bolts have been used for hundreds of years. Quoted:
Just like a magician hides the "magic", safe manufacturers like to hide the weaknesses by distracting your attention to things that make the safe appear to be stronger than it actually is. I happened to stop by a locksmith/gun safe shop awhile back and got to talking to one of the salesmen about safes and durability, etc. He took me into the back and let me look at a recent safe that had come in for warranty. It was an older model from a well known and very respected brand. It was breeched by cutting the top open. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 6:33:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Liberty has a fairly new video out showing the strength of the locking bar door system they are using rather than the round pins they used to use. I think the square bars are now used in all the Liberty safes. Not sure about the National Security line. Anyway, the video is a "pry test" that seems to be a copy of the Sturdy "forklift" test from a few years ago. I like the idea of the locking bar vs pins since the locking bar is a solid piece rather than pins that are welded or bolted to the internal lockwork.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_c77Y-w8sEDon't expect to see a Sturdy safe in any of their strengths tests but that would be awesome to see. For those interested, here is the Sturdy's forklift pull test video referenced by the OP. https://youtu.be/L9FslzOGzqw |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 6:49:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't expect to see a Sturdy safe in any of their strengths tests but that would be awesome to see. For those interested, here is the Sturdy's forklift pull test video referenced by the OP.  Champion Safe vs. Liberty Safe Tractor Pull |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 9:41:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want an actual, UL-rated safe, especially one big enough to hold long guns, you're into six-figure territory for a new one, plus reinforcements for floors and professional installation. |
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Posted: 1/7/2019 11:48:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Six figures for a TL gun safe? 
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Posted: 1/8/2019 2:28:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another "forklift style" test. I wonder if this is why Liberty went with the locking bars across the product line. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3d_D33vOt8 |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 2:36:23 AM EDT
[#19]
I don't know why safe manufacturers make a big deal about doors...I'd just get a power saw and zip through the sheet metal.
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Posted: 1/8/2019 8:24:22 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's keep it between the lines, Sparky. Just about every gun "safe" out there is an RSC, regardless of the style of locking mechanism. Even Ft. Knox "safes" are RSCs. If you want an actual, UL-rated safe, especially one big enough to hold long guns, you're into six-figure territory for a new one, plus reinforcements for floors and professional installation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's keep it between the lines, Sparky. Just about every gun "safe" out there is an RSC, regardless of the style of locking mechanism. Even Ft. Knox "safes" are RSCs. If you want an actual, UL-rated safe, especially one big enough to hold long guns, you're into six-figure territory for a new one, plus reinforcements for floors and professional installation. A TL-15 with no fire rating can be had new for low 4-figure range, used, 3-figure range. I have TL-15 plate steel safe I got for $350, and my dad has a TL-30 concrete composite safe I got him for $500. Both are of an appropriate size to hold many long guns. Quoted: I don't think a recessed door equals less volume. At least not in the case of the Ft Knox. The M2 plate door is more or less the standard Ft Knox fire door minus the layers of sheetrock and then the outer skin that covers. |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 8:38:27 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's keep it between the lines, Sparky. Just about every gun "safe" out there is an RSC, regardless of the style of locking mechanism. Even Ft. Knox "safes" are RSCs. If you want an actual, UL-rated safe, especially one big enough to hold long guns, you're into six-figure territory for a new one, plus reinforcements for floors and professional installation.  You win a ride on the failboat today pal, both of these are under 8k new. https://www.deansafe.com/ams-rf6528.html https://thesafehousestore.com/product/browning-tl-30-gun-safe/ |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 8:42:02 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When did they start using the flat bars? (Off to check my liberty safe when I get home lol) |
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Posted: 1/9/2019 8:36:53 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm looking at the Liberty 1776-50 and noticed the tabs instead of bolts.
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Posted: 1/10/2019 8:58:25 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm looking at the Liberty 1776-50 and noticed the tabs instead of bolts. Liberty no doubt knows its market and what the target consumer wants but, personally, I'd rather see them go the other way. Make a "budget" version of the Presidential. Something like a Fatboy but with the 3/16 body would be nice. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 9:50:05 AM EDT
[#25]
The liberty I purchased from Cabelas last year has the military flat locking bars. I now prefer that over the round bars.
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Posted: 1/10/2019 11:44:55 AM EDT
[#26]
military flat locking bars |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 12:01:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What makes them military? |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 12:12:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Could it be that the bars were the result of some .mil solicitation that Liberty took part in? That was my first thought as well. Marketing. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 12:56:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Military (and other government entities) use GSA rated safes. You're into real safe territory there, and likely not anything a gun safe manufacturer would be involved with. That was my first thought as well. Marketing. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 4:20:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Their Centurion line has had them since introduction. I bought one in 2014. Honestly a good entry level storage cabinet (not RSC/TL rated though).
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Posted: 1/10/2019 4:32:08 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their Centurion line has had them since introduction. I bought one in 2014. Honestly a good entry level storage cabinet (not RSC/TL rated though). |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 7:46:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I'm not seeing the purpose of the 1776 other than it is a "budget" version of the Colonial. Fewer locking bars (no bar on the bottom of the door) and a lower fire rating but otherwise it seems to be the same body and door construction. Liberty no doubt knows its market and what the target consumer wants but, personally, I'd rather see them go the other way. Make a "budget" version of the Presidential. Something like a Fatboy but with the 3/16 body would be nice. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 9:14:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 1776 gives me a pretty decent cabinet all thing considered. It's on sale at my local dealer and they are also running a delivery special. So to get a 6' tall safe for ~$2k delivered is a deal.. |
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Posted: 1/11/2019 11:23:05 AM EDT
[#34]
They are running a sale on the bronze Colonial 50 for $2099 and that includes the door panel (I think they all do), electrical outlet, 6 LED wand kit and "upgraded" electrical lock. I haven't decided on mechanical vs electrical, but I think the electric lock is different between the 1776 and the Colonial. I'm going back today to talk to the owner and get the final drive out price, he wasn't there yesterday when I went back to confirm prices.
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Posted: 1/11/2019 7:23:22 PM EDT
[#35]
I ended up putting a deposit down on the Colonial 50 in burnt bronze, it'll be about a month before it comes in.
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Posted: 1/11/2019 7:44:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ended up putting a deposit down on the Colonial 50 in burnt bronze, it'll be about a month before it comes in. |
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Posted: 1/11/2019 7:52:18 PM EDT
[#37]
It did but buy once cry once. Well, this is my second safe, but you know what I mean.
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Posted: 2/3/2019 10:06:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Pendleton is using the flat locking bars, too.
 Jessie Harrison x Pendleton Safes |
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Posted: 2/6/2019 8:04:47 PM EDT
[#39]
I feel so inadequate with my Meilink's round bars. 4700 pounds all for nothing I guess!
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Posted: 2/6/2019 8:20:48 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
I like the idea of the locking bar vs pins since the locking bar is a solid piece rather than pins that are welded or bolted to the internal lockwork. |
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Posted: 2/6/2019 8:39:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Either way, an angle grinder through the side of the safe is the fastest and easiest way in.... 30-60 seconds and done. Manufacturers like to show off pry resistance because they can make it *look* tough. ** typo edit removed an extra 'or' |
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Posted: 2/6/2019 9:03:06 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Either way, an angle grinder through the side of the safe is the fastest and easiest way in.... 30-60 seconds and done. Manufacturers like to show off pry resistance because they can make it *look* tough. |
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Posted: 2/6/2019 10:35:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I find it hard to believe that an exploitable hole (one big enough to actually pull guns through or bypass lockwork) can be cut in 30-60 seconds. |
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Posted: 2/6/2019 10:51:50 PM EDT
[#44]
The last Browning gun safe I opened out of a fire involved me cutting an almost 1 square foot hole around the lock area. Probably took 2 minutes and I didn't have to change wheels. I have blades for a circular saw that will cut up to 1/4" plate, 6" in 30 seconds. Steel half as thin cuts twice as fast.
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Posted: 2/7/2019 9:30:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The last Browning gun safe I opened out of a fire involved me cutting an almost 1 square foot hole around the lock area. Probably took 2 minutes and I didn't have to change wheels. I have blades for a circular saw that will cut up to 1/4" plate, 6" in 30 seconds. Steel half as thin cuts twice as fast. |
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Posted: 2/7/2019 9:58:32 AM EDT
[#46]
No cable or remote relocker in this particular safe?
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Posted: 2/7/2019 11:33:18 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very few gun safes have these types of relocks. Most have a simple mechanical relock within a few inches of the lock itself. Of course a cable or other device that jams the door's bolts is worthless in an attack against the body. |
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Posted: 2/8/2019 9:29:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very few gun safes have these types of relocks. Most have a simple mechanical relock within a few inches of the lock itself. With that in mind, what do we know of the RSCII rating? I know the attack time is doubled as are the attackers. The tool compliment is different too. So does the new rating require some type of protection against simply cutting the lock work off the door? |
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Posted: 3/9/2019 5:10:27 PM EDT
[#49]
My Colonial 50 was finally delivered this week. It's outstanding!
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Posted: 3/11/2019 10:32:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Pics!
I’ve been looking around myself, Liberty, superior and ft Knox. Will see about visiting the safe store that carries fr knox this weekend or so |
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