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Let's talk about Parkas (Page 1 of 2)
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Posted: 1/23/2022 11:13:23 AM EDT
I don't need one, and I prob shouldn't be spending the $, but for some reason I have an itch for a super cool parka in Multicam for range use.

Perhaps wearing one to the range will make me more like Clint Smith. Probably not, but I can hope and dream.

Anyway, what's everyone else wearing?
Link Posted: 1/23/2022 12:07:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BFskinner] [#1]
Weird system error on this first post.
Link Posted: 1/23/2022 12:08:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BFskinner] [#2]
Midway was running a closeout last week (still is on some sizes) and I bought a Midway Mackenzie Mountain Signature Extreme Parka and matching bib.  

So far it seems pretty solid for the reasonable (heavily discounted) closeout price.  Not .mil pattern camo but I would say Realtree is pretty stealthy in most outdoor environments.  

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/939103268?pid=952269
Link Posted: 1/23/2022 12:11:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Traderjac] [#3]
I wear a North Face McMurdo parka. I have never been cold or even chilled wearing it. I do love it.
Link Posted: 1/23/2022 12:19:18 PM EDT
[#4]
I gotta say my surplus woodland camo parka far exceeds my expectations for cheap surplus gear.  Pretty bombproof for 90 bucks and works.
Link Posted: 1/23/2022 12:20:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister] [#5]
British MTP smock.

Lightweight shell (think BDU material), it fits over your insulating clothes.  Fairly cheap, you can get them new-surplus mailed from England.  Disadvantage is they come with British-style zippers (pull tab on left, not right).



You can have American-style zips installed:

Attachment Attached File


A couple of my ROTC Cadets:

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/23/2022 2:04:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf] [#6]
Originally Posted By Pav56C:
I don't need one, and I prob shouldn't be spending the $, but for some reason I have an itch for a super cool parka in Multicam for range use.

Perhaps wearing one to the range will make me more like Clint Smith. Probably not, but I can hope and dream.

Anyway, what's everyone else wearing?
View Quote
What anticipated temp range?  Will it be worn in the rain?  What is your budget?  What is your body build/weight/height?  Loose fitting (can add insulation) or tighter fit?  Will you need a (possibly stowable or detachable) hood?

Can't add any decent suggestions without above info.  I suggest having an external-access pocket for your cell phone is pretty handy.  Even nicer, if a cold-weather garment, is if the cell phone pocket goes underneath the insulation and allows body heat to keep the phone batts warm, and still working.   Freezing Temps and Cell Phones
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 11:49:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sinister:
British MTP smock.

Lightweight shell (think BDU material), it fits over your insulating clothes.  Fairly cheap, you can get them new-surplus mailed from England.  Disadvantage is they come with British-style zippers (pull tab on left, not right).

https://www.vancouvertacticalsupplies.com/clothing/images/mtp_smock1_l.jpg

You can have American-style zips installed:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/DSCF7450_JPG-2244953.JPG

A couple of my ROTC Cadets:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/55541985_2141460929272121_64566561617844-2244928.JPG
View Quote
Along the same line as this, I have an Arktis Combat Smock, which is styled more like the older British issued smocks in DPM.  I have one in OD, but they have a lot of colors and patterns.  They also have more advanced versions with more pockets.  

https://store.arktis.co.uk/collections/b110-combat-smock

I've also had my eye one these things, if you really wanted to shell out for something with a ton of fancy technical features.

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/sarma-tst-l4-recon-smock/51301
Link Posted: 1/25/2022 2:36:59 AM EDT
[#8]
Checkout, ebay, FB and CL as people are getting rid of their hunting gear.
Link Posted: 1/25/2022 3:37:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sinister:
British MTP smock.

Lightweight shell (think BDU material), it fits over your insulating clothes.  Fairly cheap, you can get them new-surplus mailed from England.  Disadvantage is they come with British-style zippers (pull tab on left, not right).

https://www.vancouvertacticalsupplies.com/clothing/images/mtp_smock1_l.jpg

You can have American-style zips installed:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/DSCF7450_JPG-2244953.JPG

A couple of my ROTC Cadets:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/55541985_2141460929272121_64566561617844-2244928.JPG
View Quote

This is the answer, the British windproof smocks are cool as fuck

@demoMouse knows.
Link Posted: 1/25/2022 12:56:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Great suggestions and questions.
No specific weather or conditions I'm aiming for. I reside in the north east so freezing temps and precipitation are common this time of year.

Most likely would be worn to the range when it's cold or rainy.
Also would probably wear for work during cold weather jobs, we wear Tru Spec green, so I'm leading towards the Try Spec ECWS 2 parka in green.

How do they fit under armor?
Link Posted: 1/25/2022 11:22:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 1/26/2022 4:38:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pav56C:
Great suggestions and questions.
No specific weather or conditions I'm aiming for. I reside in the north east so freezing temps and precipitation are common this time of year.

Most likely would be worn to the range when it's cold or rainy.
Also would probably wear for work during cold weather jobs, we wear Tru Spec green, so I'm leading towards the Try Spec ECWS 2 parka in green.

How do they fit under armor?
View Quote


I don’t know about the Tru Spec version, but the issued Level VI ECWCS jacket sucks under armor.
Link Posted: 1/26/2022 5:09:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sconnieVLP:


I don’t know about the Tru Spec version, but the issued Level VI ECWCS jacket sucks under armor.
View Quote

If you're going USGI ECWCS the level 4 windbreaker is peak comfort and field luxury.
Link Posted: 1/26/2022 12:02:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: demoMouse] [#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sonoran_Tj:

This is the answer, the British windproof smocks are cool as fuck

@demoMouse knows.
View Quote

100% this. I’ll give it to the Brits, they knocked it out of the park with the windproof smock.

I use their multicam one regularly in the field, the range, jumps etc. it’s absolutely perfect for cold windy/rainy nights.

This particular windy night was disrespectfully cold for everyone else:
Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/26/2022 12:12:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tsg68] [#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sinister:
British MTP smock.

Lightweight shell (think BDU material), it fits over your insulating clothes.  Fairly cheap, you can get them new-surplus mailed from England.  Disadvantage is they come with British-style zippers (pull tab on left, not right).

https://www.vancouvertacticalsupplies.com/clothing/images/mtp_smock1_l.jpg

You can have American-style zips installed:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/DSCF7450_JPG-2244953.JPG

A couple of my ROTC Cadets:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/55541985_2141460929272121_64566561617844-2244928.JPG
View Quote


Years ago I bought a Helikon Tex made version of the British combat smock and it has a lot of the “custom” features that the now defunct SASS and Arktis offered for a decent discount.  I think I paid $75 plus shipping from a US Helikon dealer. They’re likely more now but still not too bad I’d wager.  At one point SASS was the pinnacle product but I’m guessing Arktis has taken that spot.
Link Posted: 1/26/2022 4:08:03 PM EDT
[#16]
I like my Level V softshell jacket and pants.  

I've been using my Beyond Clothing Level 1B grid fleece under it, but I've got to get that USMC FROG Grid Fleece for more warmth. The Marines got it right with that grid fleece, know a few guys running them and they're very nice for an underlayer.

I'm not a big fan of parkas with built in insulation for anything active. I'd rather have the PCU Layering system, because it has that very handy chart I always reference that tells me how to layer for various temp ranges and will tell me what to layer with if I'm active or inactive.  That chart has never failed me, I was outdoors the other day and didn't break a sweat at all even though I was pretty active doing snowshoeing (we've got great conditions right now for snowshoeing and cross country skiing).  That chart really has helped me master the elements when used with the ECWS layers.  

Link Posted: 1/27/2022 3:18:09 PM EDT
[#17]
I've got an older Canadian Drop Zone smock, an Arktis Sniper smock, and an OD SASS smock. The SASS is 100% cotton, better for warmer weather fun; most are a 50/50 NYCO material and are sort of the old school soft-shell jackets but more robust.  They aren't waterproof, but they breath pretty well, a little water resistant, windproof, and while they don't dry real fast, they dry reasonably quickly.  

Good kit.

ROCK6
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 3:34:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: demoMouse] [#18]
The Brit CS95 PCS windproof smock is what’s up.
Better than my SPEAR Level 5 Flex jacket. It's a little heavier than any of the current jackets I'm issued (Still weighs much less than an old busted M65), but it makes up for it by actually stopping the rain and wind. the big failing of US Army jackets is that they kinda suck at keeping the wind out, mainly around the bottom opening. Even the cool-guy issued shells are kinda porous feeling when it gets windy.

Attachment Attached File



The jacket has fleece lined hand pockets; a great hood that keeps the rain off your face; its baggy enough to be comfortable with or without additional layers inside (layering this is much warmer than an ECWCS which allows for too big of a gap between the outer shell and inner layers); it has a mid torso drawstring that makes a huge difference in keeping wind out without the coat riding up at your hips when you walk around. The pockets are also extremely roomy, and if you want to carry some accessories without using a chest rig or pack, it can't be beat.

Additionally, it’s got an advantage over US issued jackets: it’s really quiet. No crinkling sound or vvvvwp vvvwp vvvwp when you move your arms, go prone, or take a knee. The jacket fabric is also nowhere near as stiff as Goretex so it fits a little less awkwardly into a ruck.

The hood rolls up a bit bulky, and you have to tug it a bit to get it through the neck opening of a plate carrier (guys who have an IOTV are kinda screwed…), but it’s fine under a PC once you adjust it.

They only cost about $40-$60 in good condition on surplus sites. I got an old school DPM CS95 one that might well just have come out of the package for $50 on Varusteleka. Word on the street tho is that surplus sites in the UK that say “will not ship outside the UK” will definitely ship to America.

Grenade ring zipper mod (make sure you remove the pin from the ring or it will jab you at an inopportune time)is a game changer, especially with gloves. As Sinister pointed out, the zipper is on the opposite side Bc Brit’s are into kinky stuff like that. I left mine as is.
Attachment Attached File



Also removed one of the chest pockets (strong side flap liked to snag my stock), center rank tab (mostly did the rank tab so it wouldn’t stand out and draw unwanted questions about why I’m not wearing an issued jacket), and the wire inside the hood which made it much easier to wear with a PC.
Attachment Attached File


Pro-tip: if you have a windproof smock, iron it. the label says to iron the smock to improve water repellency. I tried it, fully expecting to still get damp and then spray the whole thing in Camp Dry when I got home. I ironed my smock, and went out to hang out outdoors on a cold rainy day because the army likes doing stuff like that. At the end of the day, my thermal layers under the parka and my range documents in the chest pocket were still dry.
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 3:42:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sonoran_Tj] [#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By demoMouse:
The Brit CS95 windproof smock is what’s up.
Better than my Level 5 Flex jacket. It's heavier than any of the jackets I'm issued (Still weighs much less than an M65), but it makes up for it by actually stopping the wind, and rain.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/427499/IMG_0194_JPG-2257264.JPG


The jacket has a great hood that keeps the rain off your face; its baggy enough to be comfortable with or without additional layers inside; it has a waist drawstring that makes a huge difference in keeping wind out without the coat riding up at your hips when you walk around. The pockets are also extremely roomy, and if you want to carry some accessories without using a chest rig or pack, it can't be beat.

Additionally, it’s got an advantage over US issued jackets: it’s really quiet. No crinkling sound or vvvvwp vvvwp vvvwp when you move your arms, go prone, or take a knee.

I got mine for free.99, but they only cost about $40-$60 in good condition on surplus sites (I liked the multicam MTP one so much I got an old school DPM one that might well just have come out of the package for $50 on Varusteleka.

Grenade ring zipper mod is a game changer, especially with gloves. As Sinister pointed out, the zipper is on the opposite side Bc Brit’s are into kinky stuff like that. I left mine as is.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/427499/04BB619C-1706-4085-A2F7-B85A8E0105AE_jpe-2257268.JPG


Also removed one of the chest pockets and rank tab (mostly did the rank tab so it wouldn’t stand out and draw unwanted questions about why I wasn’t wearing an issued jacket)
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/427499/15113223-BA63-4F1A-9F19-0AE00336CC24_jpe-2257269.JPG
View Quote

I'm jealous yours has full velcro fields on the arms. Mine just has a 4x6"-ish rectangle who's perimeter is 1/2" velcro. It came with MTP cover patches but I can't stick U.S. unit or flag patches directly onto the jacket.

ETA: Sleeve patch panel pics

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 8:07:55 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sonoran_Tj:

I'm jealous yours has full velcro fields on the arms. Mine just has a 4x6"-ish rectangle who's perimeter is 1/2" velcro. It came with MTP cover patches but I can't stick U.S. unit or flag patches directly onto the jacket.
View Quote


your is the newer model, should also have zips on handwarmer pockets, no inner mesh (that snagged), minor reinforcement stitching here and there, no foam sleeves on forearms. they are marked PCS -  CU ("combat uniform") on the label.

BTW it is called the PCS (Personal Clothing System) Smock, not the CS95 which was the older "combat Soldier 1995" ensemble. However early smocks in MTP pattern exists in CS95 cut, the classic 4 pocket cut with a single exposed button and no shoulder pockets.
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 8:32:29 AM EDT
[#21]
This is fun to learn about.  I wear a medium regular BDU/ACU top.  What size would you recommend for the PCS Smock?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 8:48:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By billpete:
This is fun to learn about.  I wear a medium regular BDU/ACU top.  What size would you recommend for the PCS Smock?

Thanks!
View Quote

Convert your height and chest circumference to centimeters, that's how they're sized. The height measurements come in 10 cm increments (160, 170, 180, etc) and the chest measurements come in 8 cm increments (88, 96, 104, etc).

The British sizing tends towards a longer jacket and tight around the chest. Its generally recommended to go down one size for height and up one size for the chest, although depending on your measurements this may not be required.

For reference I'm 5'6" (168 cm) and my chest measures 37" (91.4 cm). I ordered a 160/96 smock and it fits well. The tail goes down past my belt line without going below my cheeks, its loose enough in the chest to fit warming layers without being overly baggy.
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 10:54:18 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sonoran_Tj:

I'm jealous yours has full velcro fields on the arms. Mine just has a 4x6"-ish rectangle who's perimeter is 1/2" velcro. It came with MTP cover patches but I can't stick U.S. unit or flag patches directly onto the jacket.

ETA: Sleeve patch panel pics

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/276110/20220128_211416_jpg-2257337.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/276110/20220128_211426_jpg-2257338.JPG
View Quote

Man that looks like budget cuts to me!

Do you have a sew shop that could add a Velcro field?
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 11:10:00 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By demoMouse:

Man that looks like budget cuts to me!

Do you have a sew shop that could add a Velcro field?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By demoMouse:
Originally Posted By Sonoran_Tj:

I'm jealous yours has full velcro fields on the arms. Mine just has a 4x6"-ish rectangle who's perimeter is 1/2" velcro. It came with MTP cover patches but I can't stick U.S. unit or flag patches directly onto the jacket.

ETA: Sleeve patch panel pics

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/276110/20220128_211416_jpg-2257337.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/276110/20220128_211426_jpg-2257338.JPG

Man that looks like budget cuts to me!

Do you have a sew shop that could add a Velcro field?

I think I'm just going to sew some patches directly to the covers that were included.
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 11:28:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: theguymontag] [#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sonoran_Tj:)

The British sizing tends towards a longer jacket and tight around the chest. Its generally recommended to go down one size for height and up one size for the chest, although depending on your measurements this may not be required.

For reference I'm 5'6" (168 cm) and my chest measures 37" (91.4 cm). I ordered a 160/96 smock and it fits well. The tail goes down past my belt line without going below my cheeks, its loose enough in the chest to fit warming layers without being overly baggy.
View Quote


You serious Clark?

I wish I read this when I purchased mine (due to this very thread). Based on Varusteleka and the P&S forum l went with a 170/96 (sizing down both height and chest) and I’m 5’9” with 42” chest. Oh well, I’ll wait for it to arrive in a few weeks….

ETA: Varu stated cut is generous and feel free to size down, and P&S info.
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 11:30:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister] [#26]
I've modded a number of smocks to comply with 670-1 (no kidding, because the shit description line drawing in the DA Pam shows a fricking M65 field jacket with pockets).

Attachment Attached File


Using velcro salvaged off an ink-damaged multicam ACU shirt:

Attachment Attached File


Because I've spent a large portion of my life on my elbows I reinforced them with Cordura:

Attachment Attached File


What it looks like ready to go to work.  You minimize bitching by the CSM by giving him, the S3, and XO their own:

Attachment Attached File


The OP needs one in green (sheriff deputies or game wardens can get the olive ones from Helikon):

Link Posted: 1/28/2022 11:39:35 AM EDT
[#27]
British smok sizing.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 1:09:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sonoran_Tj:

Convert your height and chest circumference to centimeters, that's how they're sized. The height measurements come in 10 cm increments (160, 170, 180, etc) and the chest measurements come in 8 cm increments (88, 96, 104, etc).

The British sizing tends towards a longer jacket and tight around the chest. Its generally recommended to go down one size for height and up one size for the chest, although depending on your measurements this may not be required.

For reference I'm 5'6" (168 cm) and my chest measures 37" (91.4 cm). I ordered a 160/96 smock and it fits well. The tail goes down past my belt line without going below my cheeks, its loose enough in the chest to fit warming layers without being overly baggy.
View Quote


The smock as it was designed is meant to get almost to the knee. It is worn bloused, with the lower string tied ad tucked around the waist. However there is one airborne unit wearing it loose as a tradition.
a popular mod is adding wool knitted cuffs as they are standard in the paratrooper smock

I also suggest checking German KSK style smocks, the cheaper being made by MilTec, which i have and have served me well for outdoor, hunting and casual shooting. They are thinner and probably less sturdy than issue british ones.

Note that Arktis also has "waterproof" parka that have an added drop liner, standard ones aren't meant to be waterproof as the ECWCS items are.

Also Crye Precision that have been playing with smock concept here and there just shown at ShotShow a modern thin ripstop nylon Smock that they call the SMOC, which look the same we Europeans have been using for decades.
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 1:34:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister] [#29]
Joe, have you tried anything by Leo Kohler?

Like a lot of American offerings they look nice, but crazy money.

Running off the rails, but the British Denison camouflage pattern parachutist smock covered his web gear and individual equipment underneath the parachute harness.  Not a bad consideration since they didn't use reserve parachutes on combat jumps:

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 9:21:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: demoMouse] [#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By theguymontag:


You serious Clark?

I wish I read this when I purchased mine (due to this very thread). Based on Varusteleka and the P&S forum l went with a 170/96 (sizing down both height and chest) and I’m 5’9” with 42” chest. Oh well, I’ll wait for it to arrive in a few weeks….

ETA: Varu stated cut is generous and feel free to size down, and P&S info.
View Quote

I love varusteleka, their sizing conversion isn’t accurate though (I had to return my first DPM attempt Bc I went with theirs and it was way too big). Do the metric conversion math yourself and use Sonoran_Tj’s method and you’ll get it right every time. The British sizing is pretty precise and straight forward. if you measure right the jacket will fit and look right.

Mine falls around my mid to upper thigh.
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 9:35:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Ladies, ladies....!

We Brits have an established system on coat fastening/openings
The zipper on the Issue smocks & such, is the way it is, as per a few posts on here, as it's designed for primarily male wear.
When the jacket flap and zipper layout are the other way round, that's for the gurls coats
Same as mens shirts fasten/overlap the seams/edges one way, wimmins blouses the other way

Clicked on a thread bout Parkas, expected to see chat about the Israeli Dubon types, the old West German issue green moleskin with synthetic fur liners, the Brit issue DPM Parka circa Falklands tour timeframe, etc. Maybe even the new uber Gucci Arcteryx jobs.

I try to steer clear of the present issue MTP kit myself - and sadly the old standard DPM now looks very old hat & antique compared to MTP.
Still got a couple of DPM SAS issue smocks & the very similar Arctic Smock version with wired hood.
Easy to find here at the car boot sales and flea markets. One cost me less than a dollar....a lot less!

Huge fan of the Arktis range of jackets and parkas & the like. Just got a nice lined windproof jacket from them last week in Swedish M90. Been using one of their Sniper Smocks in Swiss Cam. for a few recent deer stalks = good design, even in a cold November stalk up a Scottish hillside I was having to open most of the side vent. zips to stop from broiling myself to death. The ideal version of this smock for me would be the Swede M90 camo. version. Plan is to pick up one of their plain green windproof smocks when I see one at the right price.
Arktis also makes some really nice accessories and they also trade as a partner/side business called County Covers.

For present range use when a lot of time is spent standing around I have invested in a DeerHunter padded parka & matching padded trousers.
It's about the only time in 40+ years of shooting on MoD ranges in winter when I've not been freezing most of the time when standing still.

Some of the Varusteleka retailed gear is very good, but they're not as easy for us to buy from now as the EU are messing with some of the agreed export from the EU to the UK rules. Twats. (The EU, not Varusteleka)
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 9:54:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: demoMouse] [#32]
Arcteryx is nice as hell. Sexy cool things cost sexy cool money though. You’re going going to be dropping $500to $1400 for a multicam Arcteryx parka.

It’s an exceedingly overpriced brand and I’m not into playing an ace when a 3 will do.
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 9:56:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister] [#33]
Saddler, ever used Keela-branded stuff?

Link Posted: 1/29/2022 9:45:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Bohr_Adam] [#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sinister:
I've modded a number of smocks to comply with 670-1 (no kidding, because the shit description line drawing in the DA Pam shows a fricking M65 field jacket with pockets).

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/smock_jpeg-2244887.JPG

Using velcro salvaged off an ink-damaged multicam ACU shirt:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/DSCF7449_JPG-2244945.JPG

Because I've spent a large portion of my life on my elbows I reinforced them with Cordura:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/DSCF7455_JPG-2244962.JPG

What it looks like ready to go to work.  You minimize bitching by the CSM by giving him, the S3, and XO their own:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/DSCF7452_JPG-2244969.JPG

The OP needs one in green (sheriff deputies or game wardens can get the olive ones from Helikon):

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61p3dSlccQL._AC_UL1200_.jpg
View Quote


You're going to instill a love of practicality and common sense into those young LTs and then the poor souls are going to get to their first unit... oh, the humanity.
Link Posted: 1/29/2022 9:58:18 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:


You're going to instill a love of practicality and common sense into those you LTs and then the poor souls are going to get to their first unit... oh, the humanity.
View Quote

There is damn near an obligation for junior officers to live by practicality and common sense. Its rare but will set them apart from their peers.
Link Posted: 1/29/2022 11:12:40 AM EDT
[#36]
A little history lesson: History Of the Parka
Link Posted: 1/29/2022 12:10:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister] [#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
A little history lesson: History Of the Parka
View Quote
Nice!

The B9:



WWII design work:



N3B snorkel:



M51:


Desert night parka:



Modified:

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/29/2022 2:14:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf] [#38]
Much obliged for your taking the time and effort to post appropriate pix!  Adds useful context.

It so happens that I have a relatively rare "Desert Night Camo" parka, along with its' much more uncommon liner.  Also, the trousers, and different styles of hats.  Sold-off a lot of my milsurp clothing collection, but I decided to keep those items. I have reason to believe that this camo pattern was intentionally mis-labeled.  AFAIK, the real purpose of this camo pattern was to defeat early Night Vision devices.

What some may not know is that the fur-ruffed hood commonly used as an insert to the M-1951 parka (not seen in your pic above- and not your fault) can also be used on the M-65 Coat, Field (Field Jacket).   Buttons/snaps right into the M-65 GI Field jacket and explains all the otherwise inexplicable snaps and buttonholes in the M-65 Field Jacket.  Usually seen in O.D. material.

Example of Late-Issue M-1951 Hood, Parka

Original hoods which had real coyote fur ruffs were superior, but hard to find nowadays in decent condition.  Prices for originals reflect this.  IMHO, better a nice unused modern version than a ratty original.  Even the modern versions of this hood are getting scarce.


Link Posted: 1/29/2022 2:23:01 PM EDT
[#39]
Interesting. My measurements come out to 180.3 and 96.5, any reason not to order a 180/96? I have long arms, lanky.
Link Posted: 1/29/2022 2:42:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf] [#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By skinny79:
Interesting. My measurements come out to 180.3 and 96.5, any reason not to order a 180/96? I have long arms, lanky.
View Quote
My experience with clothing leads me to usually assume that most Mil overgarments are made so as to incorporate added, insulating undergarments, while most civvy clothing is usually a somewhat "tighter" fit.  Obviously, exceptions exist.

I suggest taking one's body measurements as per instructions on the vendor's site, and then e-mailing them with your personal requirements.  Some posters here have offered good interpretations of Euro/NATO/Brit clothing sizes, and so useful as general guidance.  Suggest being a tinch "Liberal" if measuring one's body, or perhaps paying an experienced tailor to take one's body measurements.  A "professional" measurement is much more likely to be accurate than a body measurement done by oneself.

Having bought some garments on the interweb, including some fairly expensive items, the better the vendor/mfr understands your exact measurements, the more likely the items will fit.  Sending a few e-mails back and forth and getting reasonable responses is likely to make your purchase satisfactory.  Pay attention to "Return" policies, as such vary, and in the case of "Bespoke" items (Items made to customer dimensions/order) such "Return" policies might be problematic.

In general, a little too big, or a little too long is often tolerable.  Too small or too short is almost never satisfactory.
Link Posted: 1/29/2022 3:14:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
My experience with clothing leads me to usually assume Mil overgarments are made so as to incorporate added, insulating undergarments, while most civvy clothing is usually a somewhat "tighter" fit.  Obviously, exceptions exist.

I suggest taking one's body measurements as per instructions on the vendor's site, and then e-mailing them with your personal requirements.  Some posters here have offered good interpretations of Euro/NATO/Brit clothing sizes.

Having bought some garments on the interweb, including some fairly expensive items, the better the vendor/mfr understands your exact measurements, the more likely the items will fit.  Sending a few e-mails back and forth and getting reasonable responses is likely to make your purchase satisfactory.  Pay attention to "Return" policies, as such vary, and in the case of "Bespoke" items (Items made to customer dimensions/order) such "Return" policies might be problematic.

In general, a little too big, or a little too long is often tolerable.  Too small or too short is almost never satisfactory.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By skinny79:
Interesting. My measurements come out to 180.3 and 96.5, any reason not to order a 180/96? I have long arms, lanky.
My experience with clothing leads me to usually assume Mil overgarments are made so as to incorporate added, insulating undergarments, while most civvy clothing is usually a somewhat "tighter" fit.  Obviously, exceptions exist.

I suggest taking one's body measurements as per instructions on the vendor's site, and then e-mailing them with your personal requirements.  Some posters here have offered good interpretations of Euro/NATO/Brit clothing sizes.

Having bought some garments on the interweb, including some fairly expensive items, the better the vendor/mfr understands your exact measurements, the more likely the items will fit.  Sending a few e-mails back and forth and getting reasonable responses is likely to make your purchase satisfactory.  Pay attention to "Return" policies, as such vary, and in the case of "Bespoke" items (Items made to customer dimensions/order) such "Return" policies might be problematic.

In general, a little too big, or a little too long is often tolerable.  Too small or too short is almost never satisfactory.


Ok, I was just asking the multiple people in here who actually own the Brit PCS smock.
Link Posted: 1/29/2022 3:17:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister] [#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
I have a relatively rare "Desert Night Camo" parka, along with its' much more uncommon liner.  Also, the trousers, and different styles of hats.  Sold-off a lot of my milsurp clothing collection, but I decided to keep those items. I have reason to believe that this camo pattern was intentionally mis-labeled.  AFAIK, the real purpose of this camo pattern was to defeat early Night Vision devices.

What some may not know is that the fur-ruffed hood commonly used as an insert to the M-1951 parka (not seen in your pic above- and not your fault) can also be used on the M-65 Coat, Field (Field Jacket).   Buttons/snaps right into the M-65 GI Field jacket and explains all the otherwise inexplicable snaps and buttonholes in the M-65 Field Jacket.  Usually seen in O.D. material.



Original hoods which had real coyote fur ruffs were superior, but hard to find nowadays in decent condition.  Prices for originals reflect this.  IMHO, better a nice unused modern version than a ratty original.  Even the modern versions of this hood are getting scarce.
View Quote
This is correct.  First-gen Russian stuff was very grainy, and the night desert pattern grid was enough to break up the image -- if the wearer wasn't moving.  

I would rat-finger my dad's central issue gear bags and remember when the Army made the transition from coyote to low-bidder synthetic trim.

Glacier wear carries basic coyote fur for $15 you can retro-fit to a new hood.  I would sew the fur ruff to velcro, with matching around the hood so you can wash it.  You can spend lots more and upgrade to wolf:

Coyote:
Attachment Attached File


Wolf:
Attachment Attached File


Fur trim for hoods
Link Posted: 1/29/2022 3:31:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf] [#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sinister:
This is correct.  First-gen Russian stuff was very grainy, and the night desert pattern grid was enough to break up the image -- if the wearer wasn't moving.  

I would rat-finger my dad's central issue gear bags and remember when the Army made the tranistion from coyote to low-bidder synthetic trim.

Glacier wear carries basic coyote fur for $15 you can retro-fit to a new hood.  You can spend lots more and upgrade to wolf:

Coyote:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/coyote_jpg-2258952.JPG

Wolf:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/wolf_jpg-2258930.JPG

Fur trim for hoods
View Quote
Valuable comments, and much obliged for your added info!

IDK, but transition from Coyote fur (MUCH preferable to syn "fur") was almost certainly done post KorWar, and done both to existing stocks being issued, and due to "economizing" measures.

I have both a decent Coyote fur and a relatively new syn fur hood.  Coyote much more better, IMHO.  IDK if "Wolf" fur is worth the premium.

Shelby Stanton's books on USGI Uniforms and gear can be informative:  US Army Cold War Uniforms   Stanton has also written many other books, some of which focus on WW II and KorWar uniforms and gear.
Link Posted: 1/29/2022 5:10:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By skinny79:
Interesting. My measurements come out to 180.3 and 96.5, any reason not to order a 180/96? I have long arms, lanky.
View Quote

Oughta fit like a glove.
Link Posted: 1/29/2022 5:16:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By demoMouse:

Oughta fit like a glove.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By demoMouse:
Originally Posted By skinny79:
Interesting. My measurements come out to 180.3 and 96.5, any reason not to order a 180/96? I have long arms, lanky.

Oughta fit like a glove.

Cool. Sportsman's Guide wasn't helpful, waiting for an email from Keep Shooting to see if they'll send me an actual 180/96 instead of a "medium."

Already have an ink stained top lined up to donate velcro.
Link Posted: 1/30/2022 10:22:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister] [#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By skinny79:
...waiting for an email from Keep Shooting to see if they'll send me an actual 180/96 instead of a "medium."

Already have an ink stained top lined up to donate velcro.
View Quote
skinny, I see you're in North Carolina.  Willie Callaway used to work at General Jackson's on Yadkin Road in Fayetteville, and he could sew anything.  There are also a lot of other sew shops there.  If you don't have any luck, PM me.

Despite what Saddler wrote from England, most Americans don't have a batman, valet, or butler to dress them (the zipper pull on the left side of the garment is for them, as they'll pull it up with their right hand).  You can get 30-inch parka zippers from Joann's Fabrics, or even better a YKK plastic #10 from fleabay or Amazon for around $10/11.

Attachment Attached File


If you don't have a grenade pull ring you can use a black split key ring from Ace, True Value, Lowes, or Home Depot, or just use some 550 cord.
Link Posted: 1/30/2022 1:44:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sinister:
skinny, I see you're in North Carolina.  Willie Calloway used to work at General Jackson's on Yadkin Road in Fayetteville, and he could sew anything.  There are also a lot of other sew shops there.  If you don't have any luck, PM me.

Despite what Saddler wrote from England, most Americans don't have a batman, valet, or butler to dress them (the zipper pull on the left side of the garment is for them, as they'll pull it up with their right hand).  You can get 30-inch parka zippers from Joann's Fabrics, or even better a YKK plastic #10 from fleabay or Amazon for around $10/11.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/smock_zip_jpg-2259978.JPG

If you don't have a grenade pull ring you can use a black split key ring from Ace, True Value, Lowes, or Home Depot, or just use some 550 cord.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sinister:
Originally Posted By skinny79:
...waiting for an email from Keep Shooting to see if they'll send me an actual 180/96 instead of a "medium."

Already have an ink stained top lined up to donate velcro.
skinny, I see you're in North Carolina.  Willie Calloway used to work at General Jackson's on Yadkin Road in Fayetteville, and he could sew anything.  There are also a lot of other sew shops there.  If you don't have any luck, PM me.

Despite what Saddler wrote from England, most Americans don't have a batman, valet, or butler to dress them (the zipper pull on the left side of the garment is for them, as they'll pull it up with their right hand).  You can get 30-inch parka zippers from Joann's Fabrics, or even better a YKK plastic #10 from fleabay or Amazon for around $10/11.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/smock_zip_jpg-2259978.JPG

If you don't have a grenade pull ring you can use a black split key ring from Ace, True Value, Lowes, or Home Depot, or just use some 550 cord.


Thanks for the advice. I normally use Pak's, but I'll keep General Jackson's in mind.
Link Posted: 1/30/2022 6:07:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By skinny79:
I normally use Pak's, but I'll keep General Jackson's in mind.
View Quote
They're good.  I think they did my DCUs in 2003 just before we went to Iraq.
Link Posted: 1/31/2022 1:05:45 PM EDT
[#49]
the Victorian era button positioning still influences today's clothing it seems .

I think juxtaposing European and US military cold weather gear is not correct. The smock is not strictly a "cold weather" thing, it is a rather thin layer, moderately wind and weather resistant with load bearing capability. European Goretex is usually just a thin shell, unlike the Old ECWCS which is more warm but bulkier. Also older Cold weather jackets like the m65 are thicker as layers go. I think the army Gen 3 Ecwcs is more similar to an European layering system, while the Marine Corps one is still more similar to the old ECWCS.  

Sinister, i never tried the Leo Kohler smock, i have a couple of under layers from them. They are a long time military clothing producer (army contracts too) and i think the original design of the KSK smock and trousers ensemble. Anyway here in Europe they are cheaper than other brands, smock was 50€ less than arktis or Tacgear. i never used because they didn't have italian camouflage, anyway they should be a solid choice.
I used the TacGear commando smock that i loved, to me it beat even the italian made SOD Operative parka one that many colleagues had and that cost almost 100€ more which was overloaded with sometimes unnecessary features.

I forgot that british smocks are also meant to have the ECBA, a 3A like armor vest worn under it. It came to my mind as my old smock was sized to put the camelbak under it to avoid puncturing as per platoon SOP.

Tomorrow under natural light i'll take some pics of my cheap Miltec Smock i use these days, which costed a quarter of my Tacgear smock and it's fine for me for my outdoor/hunting/range/light duty use.
Link Posted: 1/31/2022 6:37:33 PM EDT
[#50]
I like the 80s era NATO parkas.  I need to find more from other countries

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