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Posted: 1/1/2020 8:59:01 PM EDT
Check me on this. I think an SBR is not an SBR when it's not in SBR configuration, correct? That is, if a registered SBR lower has no upper on it, or has an upper with a barrel greater-than-or-equal to 16" and OAL greater-than-or-equal to 26" then it's not an SBR in that configuration. To state it one more way, it's the configuration, not the essence.

And if that is correct, then the registered lower can travel out of State without ATF permission as long as it is not configured as an SBR. Right?
Link Posted: 1/1/2020 9:01:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Correct, run a regular 16+ upper and it's not an SBR for transportation purposes.
Link Posted: 1/1/2020 9:04:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Wouldn't it still be considered an SBR if the lower was registered as an SBR?  IDFK
Link Posted: 1/1/2020 9:05:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for the confirmation. Mine is registered as an individual.

I think that also means another person besides myself can be in possession of the registered lower without me present when it is not configured as an SBR. Am I right on that as well?
Link Posted: 1/1/2020 9:07:13 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Wouldn't it still be considered an SBR if the lower was registered as an SBR?  IDFK
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It's not an SBR if it is not configured as an SBR. It's only an SBR when it wears the magic short barrel.
Link Posted: 1/1/2020 9:11:14 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Thanks for the confirmation. Mine is registered as an individual.

I think that also means another person besides myself can be in possession of the registered lower when it is not configured as an SBR. Am I right on that as well?
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It's a regular rifle, I would be extremely cautious if you loan them your rifle and they say have a 10.5 upper they happen to bring to the range with the rifle, that kinda deal
....I have two SBRs and I dont ever loan them out even in regular configuration.
Link Posted: 1/1/2020 9:14:11 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
It's a regular rifle, I would be extremely cautious if you loan them your rifle and they say have a 10.5 upper they happen to bring to the range with the rifle, that kinda deal
....I have two SBRs and I dont ever loan them out even in regular configuration.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the confirmation. Mine is registered as an individual.

I think that also means another person besides myself can be in possession of the registered lower when it is not configured as an SBR. Am I right on that as well?
It's a regular rifle, I would be extremely cautious if you loan them your rifle and they say have a 10.5 upper they happen to bring to the range with the rifle, that kinda deal
....I have two SBRs and I dont ever loan them out even in regular configuration.
Roger. It's a regular rifle as I suspected. I am thinking more of storing my lower elsewhere in a time of convenience. Nobody would put a short barrel on it or even possess a short barrel to run afoul of "constructive intent."
Link Posted: 1/1/2020 9:24:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Not to hijack your thread, but what if it was originally configured as a pistol and you then put it back into that configuration?
Link Posted: 1/1/2020 9:29:48 PM EDT
[#8]
It would stand to reason that it could be configured back into a pistol as well.

Provided it was originally built as a pistol from a stripped lower or was born as a pistol.

Just run a pistol brace.
Link Posted: 1/1/2020 9:29:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Can anyone point me to the legal citation for what I am asking about? I've been doing string searches through the GCA and NFA and I'm not finding a reference.
Link Posted: 1/1/2020 9:30:57 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
Just run a pistol brace.
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That scenario doesn't fit my circumstances.
Link Posted: 1/1/2020 9:32:14 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
Not to hijack your thread, but what if it was originally configured as a pistol and you then put it back into that configuration?
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I believe this was posted a couple days ago.  It was off the ATF industry faqs and they stated that would be ok.....I'll see if I can find the thread
Link Posted: 1/1/2020 10:15:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 1/2/2020 9:37:54 AM EDT
[#13]
"...SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality..." And of course I read the rest.

Thanks BigWaylon!
Link Posted: 1/12/2020 5:03:54 AM EDT
[#14]
If you throw a 16in barrel on it, it no longer falls under the NFA.  That said, be careful if you have short barrels with/nearby your currently-not-SBR, as the BATFE will consider it a disassembled SBR if you have all the pieces there and no other way to use them.  If you are talking AR-15s, I'd grab a pistol-configured lower (or a few) and an extra 16in upper (or a few), just in case you need to make all your firearms non-NFA.  I had to do this for a move.  I did not have the address to fill out the form for interstate transportation of an SBR until shortly before moving.  I called the BATFE NFA section to ask if I could put a general address (NOPE!), but they did say it was fine to put the short uppers on pistol lowers and 16in+ uppers on the registered lowers until I could get the paperwork sorted (came through a couple weeks later).
Link Posted: 1/15/2020 2:30:24 AM EDT
[#15]
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Well, it’s not in the regs because they generally tell you what you can’t do...not what you can. The definition of short barreled rifle is where you can start. If it doesn’t meet that definition, it’s not an SBR.

The ATF FAQ used to include all of this before it was redesigned:

Q: May I transfer the receiver of a short-barrel rifle or shotgun to an FFL or to an individual as I would any GCA firearm?
A: Yes. A weapon that does not meet the definition of a NFA firearm is not subject to the NFA and a possessor or transferor needn't comply with NFA requirements. The firearm is considered a GCA firearm and may be transferred under the provisions of that law.

Q: Who is responsible for notifying the NFA Branch when I transfer the GCA firearm to a FFL or another individual?
A: There is no requirement that the transferor or transferee of a GCA firearm notify the NFA branch of a transfer or that either party determine whether the firearm was previously registered under the NFA. There is no also no requirement for the registrant or possessor of a NFA firearm to notify ATF of the removal of features that caused the firearm to be subject to the NFA; however, ATF recommends the owner notify the NFA Branch in writing if a firearm is permanently removed from the NFA.

Q: What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?
A: While a receiver alone may be classified as a firearm under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).

Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
A: A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA firearm pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.

Q: If I remove the short barrel from the registered SBR or SBS, is the receiver still subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations?
A: If the possessor retains control over the barrel or other parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm would still be subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations. ATF recommends contacting State law enforcement officials to ensure compliance with state and local law.

Q: Does the installation of a barrel over 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA? If so, is this considered a permanent change?
A: Installation of a barrel greater than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) will remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA provided the registrant does not maintain control over the parts necessary to reconfigure the firearm as a SBR or SBS.
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do you have a link to this Q&A?
Link Posted: 1/15/2020 9:15:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 2/2/2020 2:33:40 PM EDT
[#17]
How can a rifle be an SBR if it is not a rifle with a barrel less than 16”?
Link Posted: 2/2/2020 5:26:42 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
How can a rifle be an SBR if it is not a rifle with a barrel less than 16”?
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(8)The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
Link Posted: 2/2/2020 6:22:37 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:

(8)The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
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That is explicitly for (the rare) cases of a Gatling gun type rifle.
Link Posted: 2/2/2020 6:50:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 2/2/2020 7:18:27 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
That is explicitly for (the rare) cases of a Gatling gun type rifle.
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Pretty much anything that meets the definition, That includes lots of guns, Most folks avoid SBR tax by not making it from a rifle but from a virgin receiver.
Link Posted: 2/2/2020 7:31:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Ok I’m sorry I wasn’t specific enough. I thought we were discussing the AR platform per the OP.

If an AR15 has a >16” barrel and is >26” OAL how is it an SBR regardless of whether it has any NFA registration?
Link Posted: 2/2/2020 7:50:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 2/2/2020 9:15:45 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
If it meets both of those requirements, it’s not an SBR.
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Quoted:
[b]Quoted:[/b

If an AR15 has a >16” barrel and is >26” OAL how is it an SBR regardless of whether it has any NFA registration?
If it meets both of those requirements, it’s not an SBR.
Right. My original question has been answered.
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