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Posted: 10/11/2020 8:18:14 AM EDT
I’m looking to get an FFL so I get into some home sales and shows.

From there I want to get my SOT (I think 02 but still learning) because I want to experiment with building some cans and stuff . Would also be curious to learn about building modern machine guns and then endurance testing and whatnot for different platforms.

I know I have to be GTG from my HOA, town, state, and federal. Then get FFL first and SOT after that.

But looking if there’s a guide or checklist that people have used besides those pay services.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 9:08:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Actually looking for this exact information myself, for FL.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 9:10:21 AM EDT
[#2]
Rocket FFL
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 9:33:37 AM EDT
[#3]
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Rocket FFL
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Or FFL 123
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 10:14:07 AM EDT
[#4]
You need to have enough land for a dedicated "shop/business" building and off street parking to include marked handicap slot. Going forward its a fools game to inside your home.

You need to be sure the location meets all zoning requirements, and is distant enough from any "school" including a pre-school day care or registered home school.

Plan out what you posted hours of business will be. Likely you will need to be present to sign for UPS, Fedex, USPS firearm deliveries unless you plan to add other "responsible individuals" to your FFL. "By appointment only" won't fly. BATFE expects you to be present and OPEN during the posted business hours and will drop in for a compliance check, or after you have been in biz awhile they might stop by for a firearms trace of an item that moved through your FFL.

While existing business may get away with not following the above - they are not applying for a new FFL, you will be.

Best bet is to find a hole in the wall commercial/industrial zoned rental unit. "Employee" (perhaps a commission only position, with ability to buy at cost...) enough staff as part time counter sales to keep the place open during hours of business to be ready to accept deliveries. Expand from that if business is profitable. Remember your biggest competition will be the internet so doing local transfers to customers buying online may bring in most of your initial foot traffic. The ability to up sell accessories, ammo and other things that the customer can take home today is what will drive profits.

Edit: if you only want to work 60hrs/week this biz isn't for you. You will be a slave to it and it will own all your time.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 11:34:42 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 2:52:44 PM EDT
[#6]
I’m not too keen on having strangers come to the house and buy/sell guns. From what I understand you need an address to register but can then sell at shows, accept stuff in the mail, and buy collections with the intention of reselling.

My wife works at home full time so she could sign for stuff.

I have a shop in my garage that’s separated from the house and I can get a good locking door and whatnot.

I would use some stuff I have as initial inventory. The main goal is the development and experimental side of things. But I know I have to have some business going to be OK.

I don’t need the FFL side to be especially profitable since I’m content with my full time job but more for fun and the chance to mess with new stuff.  

Link Posted: 10/11/2020 4:48:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Years ago I tried to get a 07ffl at my house and the County was my block because it was considered manufacturing. The lady I was dealing with from the ATF was a huge help to me with the county but in the end I have to get a commercial address.

I have seen the resources from the companies that charge to give you the info to apply and I would not recommend paying the fees because there is so much available on this forum and others out there.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 9:48:50 PM EDT
[#8]
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Or FFL 123
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Quoted:
Rocket FFL



Or FFL 123

Only if you want to throw $$$ away. You'll find that everything you need to know is available for free at atf.gov ..........again FREE.
Before you spend a penny, put together a business plan. The Arfcom archives have several sad tales of aspiring FFL's who had no idea what they were doing, what the firearms market is and eventually lost their shirt and savings.

DogtownTom's Steps to getting an 01FFL:

1. Check with your city and county to see if home based business are allowed or not. Deed restrictions or homeowners association rules may prohibit home business as well. If you rent your home then read your lease contract to see if home business is allowed. Usually city & county websites will have this info on their website. Print out a copy of those rules and keep them. If all is okay with a home based business then...

2. Decide what kind of business structure you want to have: corporation, LLC, partnership (if you have a partner) or sole proprietorship. There are advantages to each kind: sole proprietor is the easiest, corporation or LLC may give you certain legal protections. Don't for a minute think having your FFL business as a corporation makes your immune from lawsuits against you personally. Google "piercing the corporate veil". Once you decide...

3. Go to the county courthouse and apply for an assumed name (DBA). Do this before you incorporate or form a partnership because the name you want may be taken. If you’ve already done this for your other business you could just use that name. Now that you have a name for your business...

4. Go to the IRS website and get a Federal EIN # for Federal tax purposes. Then...

5. Go to http://www.state.tx.us/portal/tol/en/bus/home and apply for your Texas Sales Tax & Use Certificate- this will be required. BTW, there is no sales tax paid on transfer fees in Texas- only on firearms you sell. You do not collect Texas Sales Tax on guns the customer buys and has shipped to you. Live somewhere else? Then see your state website.

6. Decide what your “business hours” will be. These are not necessarily hours that you are open to the public, but hours you plan to devote time and attention to your business. My real job is teaching- so I put my “business hours” as M-F 5-10p. ATF wants to see that you are actually going to be in the business of dealing firearms. You can always change those hours later if needed. The hours you note on the Form 7 are the hours ATF can visit for a compliance inspection.

7. Complete the Form 7 Application for Federal Firearms License. It doesn’t carbon copy, so you’ll have plenty of writing to do. It is actually three identical forms. Keep a copy for yourself, send a copy to the chief law enforcement officer of your city or county- and put a sticky note on it that says “For Files Only- No Action Needed”. Along with the Form 7, ATF will have sent fingerprint cards. Go to any law enforcement agency and tell them you need “prints for file” or “prints for Federal background check”. They should not charge you. Use ONLY the ATF fingerprint cards. Get two passport size photos taken. Mail this last Form 7 to ATF along with the app fee of $200, fingerprint cards and passport photos. I sent mine Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation. How long you wait for the FTF interview with ATF depends on the volume of FFL applicants. While you are waiting...

8. Go to www.atf.gov and start reading EVERYTHING.
For starters:
FAQ's (and the citations to the response) https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/firearms-qas
Forms https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-forms All of them. And read the instructions.
FFL Newsletters https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/publications-library?field_document_type_value=All&og_group_ref_target_id=186
Code of Federal Regulations pertaining to firearms 478 & 479 https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/regulations-alcohol-tobacco-firearms-and-explosives
Rulings (not law, but ATF's current opinion) https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/firearms-rulings
Open Letters (some apply to all FFL's, some state specific)  https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/firearms-open-letters


The day you mail your Form 7 off, plan on just an nhour a day reading something on the ATF site. At some point, an ATF Industry Operations Investigator will call to set up an appointment for your interview. The interview will be at your “licensed premises” (your home). Odds are, he will already know if your home is legal for a home based business, but show him the proof you got in #1 above. Then...

9. At the interview, the IOI (Industry Operations Investigator a bean counter, not dog shooter) will review your application for accuracy and briefly review the various forms. He will have a checklist where he will tick off each topic he is required to cover, you'll sign his copy and he'll leave one with you. It shouldn’t take more than an hour. He may ask about safes, alarms, etc. NONE of which are required- but it would make ATF very happy if you have a safe and alarm system. It would make a good impression if you knew a few damn things about federal firearms regulations. Don't expect the ATF IOI to educate you.

“Secure storage” has to do with gun locks for customer guns. Federal law requires every FFL to have gunlocks available for every handgun that they transfer. Almost all new guns come with a lock. Free locks are often given away at gun shows or you can buy them for as little as fifty cents each. After the interview...

10. He should have given you an idea whether you will get approved. The app will be reviewed by his supervisor before being approved. You should get your actual license in three to six weeks. Once it arrives...

11.Do NOT sign the license- leave it blank! Copy the original, put it away. I highly recommend signing one copy and scan it both as a .pdf file. You can then email that FFL to the shipper/seller. Faxed FFL’s are the mark of a dinosaur, don't be a FFLdactyl. A copy of your FFL must be displayed where you conduct business, including gun shows.

12. Immediately register with the FBI NICS  https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/resources-for-federal-firearms-licensees You can’t transfer guns until you do. I registered with NICS at 7pm, at 9:30am the next morning they called to tell me I was active. (if you live in a state where FFL's do not contact FBI NICS but use a state POC (point of contact) you'll need to register with that state agency. After that...

13.Order your 4473’s from ATF, along with Multiple Sale of Handgun forms, Multiple Sale of Certain Rifles (CA, AZ, NM, TX only), Youth Gun Safety brochures and other forms you might need.  Order paper forms here: https://www.atf.gov/distribution-center-order-form    ATF may have sent some when you get your license, but more is better. There is no official “bound book” and there are several different ones out there- I buy mine from Brownells because they are cheap. Order at least a pack of three. Put them in a three ring binder. There are also electronic bound books that incorporate point of sale, inventory control, etc. Then...

14. Go to GunBroker or other auction site and list yourself in the “Find an FFL” directory. After that things like business cards and the like to spread the word about your new FFL. Visit distributors websites and open accounts. Some love home based dealers, some don't.

15. Although not required I highly recommend getting insurance. Both inventory and general liability coverage. Collectables Insurance  https://collectinsure.com/ has a firearm dealer policy that protects your inventory, when you ship customers guns and your guns on the table at gun shows. Very easy to deal with.





Whatever you do………don’t buy one of those “Get your FFL Kits” off the internet. They don’t tell you anything I didn’t write above.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 10:07:22 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
You need to have enough land for a dedicated "shop/business" building and off street parking to include marked handicap slot. Going forward its a fools game to inside your home.
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Quoted:
You need to have enough land for a dedicated "shop/business" building and off street parking to include marked handicap slot. Going forward its a fools game to inside your home.

Horsehockey.
There are more home based licensees than brick and mortar licensees.
No federal law or ATF regulation requires a marked handicapped parking spot.


You need to be sure the location meets all zoning requirements, and is distant enough from any "school" including a pre-school day care or registered home school.

Zoning, true.
"Distant enough from any school"? Nonsense, no federal law or ATF regulation prohibits a licensee from operating next door to any school. While YOUR state may have such a restriction, ATF does not.



Plan out what you posted hours of business will be. Likely you will need to be present to sign for UPS, Fedex, USPS firearm deliveries unless you plan to add other "responsible individuals" to your FFL.

Wow, again.
ATF doesn't require "posted hours of business". Never has.
ATF does require you to list the hours you plan to devote to your business on your application. That's not necessarily the same as the hours you are open to do transfers. It's perfectly fine to be "appointment only".

I've used my local UPS Store to receive all my firearm shipments for the last eleven years. They sign for every carrier (UPS/FedEx/USPS) and I pick up on my wat home from school.




"By appointment only" won't fly. BATFE expects you to be present and OPEN during the posted business hours and will drop in for a compliance check, or after you have been in biz awhile they might stop by for a firearms trace of an item that moved through your FFL.

Absolute horseshit.
While ATF does use the business hours listed on your application when scheduling a compliance........NO FUCKING WAY do you have to be present and open when you don't feel like being present and open. In twelve years I've never had an IOI just drop in for a firearm trace, mostly because IOI's don't do firearms traces...thats the National Tracing Center and they call or email.

While existing business may get away with not following the above - they are not applying for a new FFL, you will be.

Uh, rules is rules and it's the same damn rules.


Best bet is to find a hole in the wall commercial/industrial zoned rental unit. "Employee" (perhaps a commission only position, with ability to buy at cost...) enough staff as part time counter sales to keep the place open during hours of business to be ready to accept deliveries. Expand from that if business is profitable. Remember your biggest competition will be the internet so doing local transfers to customers buying online may bring in most of your initial foot traffic. The ability to up sell accessories, ammo and other things that the customer can take home today is what will drive profits.

Your business advice is as bad as your other advice. The "best bet" is for the OP to develop a good business plan doing his own research and not running out a renting a hole in the wall in an industrial zone.

Edit: if you only want to work 60hrs/week this biz isn't for you. You will be a slave to it and it will own all your time.
   
OP isn't asking about being a full time dealer with a brick and mortar.....but dealing from home.
<---full time teacher who does 2,000 gun transfers and 100+ NFA sales and transfers a year........eighteen hours a week tops.  
Link Posted: 10/18/2020 6:28:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Good for you!

Not many sol proprietors can say they consistently move 2 1/8 firearms per hour open esp if 100 of those were NFA.

I only can base my opinion on the years I held an 07 FFL and the other FFL's I worked with. Since I had a CNC mill I did engraving for many of the other 07 FFLs near me.

Rules are Rules - but BATF(E) is just like the IRS - ask each employee the same question and you will be lucky to get the same answer twice. Often how rules are interpreted have a lot to do with the pet bias of the local supervisor. Also there is the issue of what your state and county require.

I knew many kitchen table FFL holders as well as larger Dealers or manufacturers. You could not predict who would run into problems but it does happen.

I quit the firearms biz because for years it was saturated and I found that manufacturing other products had a much higher profit margin.
Link Posted: 10/18/2020 6:35:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I'm looking to get an FFL so I get into some home sales and shows.

From there I want to get my SOT (I think 02 but still learning) because I want to experiment with building some cans and stuff . Would also be curious to learn about building modern machine guns and then endurance testing and whatnot for different platforms.

I know I have to be GTG from my HOA, town, state, and federal. Then get FFL first and SOT after that.

But looking if there's a guide or checklist that people have used besides those pay services.
View Quote
Call your local ATF office and talk to them.

1. you'll have to talk to them eventually anyway because they'll do your inspection
2. they're nicer than you think
Link Posted: 10/19/2020 4:23:27 PM EDT
[#12]
I’m in process for my 07 FFL as well and plan on getting my SOT as well. Just mailed off my app to ATF 10 minutes ago. I’ve got my LLC set up, City Business License is done, no zoning issues with home based at all. That portion couldn’t be easier.
Link Posted: 10/19/2020 5:09:29 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
I’m in process for my 07 FFL as well and plan on getting my SOT as well. Just mailed off my app to ATF 10 minutes ago. I’ve got my LLC set up, City Business License is done, no zoning issues with home based at all. That portion couldn’t be easier.
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@mhode where did you get you LLc and was there any state specific stuff? I’m in Ga too
Link Posted: 10/19/2020 5:11:31 PM EDT
[#14]
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@mhode where did you get you LLc and was there any state specific stuff? I’m in Ga too
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Yeah, I just applied at SOS website and went from there. IM sent to discuss.
Link Posted: 10/25/2020 11:48:05 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:



Or FFL 123
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this guy is pretty good.  Pretty ecentric, but does a good job walking you through the process.  I helped a relative through the process. I am not an FFL myself, but took the course with him.  The cost is not bad. I think it is $100 for a year, and he allows you to ask really stupid questions and treat you like you are an idiot for asking, but a good support group during the process.

Having worked with my cousin getting his FFL and SOT, what I would offer is:  I really is not that hard, if you are genuinely interested in having a business, and you do your homework with your locality on zoning first.  What is really hard is the guy who just wants an FFL to buy guns for less and has no plans for how to run a business, or has not done his homework with his HOA (if he has one) or his county on zoning, and business license and State Corporation filings (if appropriate).  Also, the guy who does not really know the gun industry, has no clue from whom he is going to buy or to sell to, and then the guy with background problems.

at the end of the day, the ATF will do a 4 hour interview, at your place of business.  Most of this 4 hours is really instructional:  how to complete all the ATF paperwork, but the agent is looking for very, very, very basic things:

1)  Are you familiar with firearms
2)  Are you truly going to run a firearms business, or are you looking for ways to buy guns cheap.  Note:  a business could by only acting as a paid transfer agent.  What is that plan?  The plan does not have to be a written plan, but that helps.
3)  Is there anything in your past that needs explaining, especially a crime of trust, like embezzlement or theft.
4)  Do you have a place to secure your firearms and the ability to receive firearms at your place of business
5)  Do you understand that your place of record is where your ATF records -- your A&D book -- are kept and can be accessed, along with all firearms within in very short notice.
6)  Do you have the zoning (including any HOA or deed restrictions)to operate a retail establishment at the place of record, or if not a retail establishment, a manufacturing facility or gunsmith facilty or warehouse, if you are online seller
7)  Do you have a local business license
8)  Are you in 100% compliance with all state and local laws, and will you remain such after starting your firearms business.
9)  Do you undertand how to conduct a background check and will you retain the ATF and FBI records in your possession forever, or until you close the business.
10)  Do you undertand the basics of firearms law, and will you commit yourself to learning what you don't know.
11)  Do you know what it means to manufacturer a firearm (legal understanding) and if you are applying fora Type 07 license, do you understand the annual filing fees.

The SOT is easy.  Once you have an FFL, you send your money in annually and get a Class 2/3 license.  the cost is $500 or $1,000 per year, depending upon your business.

That's it.  You can pay me $50, and you know what you need to know.

Aside from the obvious on #3, which is an automatic denial, and you may not even make it to interview.  Most applicants fail on #2 and #6.  So, I have highlighted those.

During the interview process, it is not a test of a quiz, beyond the three I highlighed.  General knowledge of the rest is fine, as long as you commit to continuing follow-up to learn the rest.  The agent is not going to quizz you on the Form 4473, but rather know if you know what it is and how and when to use it, and then he/she will show you and educate you.  Same with firearms manufacturing.  You do not need to know the form you file every year, but knowing you need to file.  Know when you are doing more than acting as a dealer, like assembling a rifle is manufacturing, and so forth.

Hope that helps.
Link Posted: 10/25/2020 6:55:36 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
this guy is pretty good.  Pretty ecentric, but does a good job walking you through the process.  I helped a relative through the process. I am not an FFL myself, but took the course with him.  The cost is not bad. I think it is $100 for a year, and he allows you to ask really stupid questions and treat you like you are an idiot for asking, but a good support group during the process.  
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Quoted:
this guy is pretty good.  Pretty ecentric, but does a good job walking you through the process.  I helped a relative through the process. I am not an FFL myself, but took the course with him.  The cost is not bad. I think it is $100 for a year, and he allows you to ask really stupid questions and treat you like you are an idiot for asking, but a good support group during the process.  

Or you can get the exact same information from real FFL's and ATF for free.



Having worked with my cousin getting his FFL and SOT, what I would offer is:  I really is not that hard, if you are genuinely interested in having a business, and you do your homework with your locality on zoning first.  What is really hard is the guy who just wants an FFL to buy guns for less and has no plans for how to run a business, or has not done his homework with his HOA (if he has one) or his county on zoning, and business license and State Corporation filings (if appropriate).  Also, the guy who does not really know the gun industry, has no clue from whom he is going to buy or to sell to, and then the guy with background problems.

True.


at the end of the day, the ATF will do a 4 hour interview, at your place of business.  Most of this 4 hours is really instructional:  how to complete all the ATF paperwork, but the agent is looking for very, very, very basic things:

WTF did you hear it was a four hour interview?
More like less than an hour. But then again I didn't pay $100 for FFL123.
If it takes more than an hour....the IOI is an idiot or you are.


2)  Are you truly going to run a firearms business, or are you looking for ways to buy guns cheap.  Note:  a business could by only acting as a paid transfer agent.  What is that plan?  The plan does not have to be a written plan, but that helps.

Absolutely do a business plan.
I didn't have a business plan because I didn't think I would need one to do 12-15 transfers a month part time. I was doing double that in my second month and doubled again the third month. Not because I'm Mr Awesome FFL, but because of the 2008 elections. I 2000+ transfers a year. Understand I have over a million people living within a twenty minute drive of my home.

Far to often there's guys seeing the massive increases in firearms sales during times like these. They think "I gonna get rich by being an FFL!" They are the ones who don't have a business plan, don't understand the market and don't research anything other than TV Guide. They fail. They fail miserably and come here asking why they can't find guns at a distributor or can't find ammunition at a wholesaler.





4)  Do you have a place to secure your firearms and the ability to receive firearms at your place of business

There is no requirement to "secure" your firearms. Safes, alarms, nosey neighbors, loud dogs are nice but no ATF requirement for any of that.....not even a requirement for a lock on your door.
I've used my local UPS Store for the last ten years. I pick up all my deliveries on the way home from school.




9)  Do you undertand how to conduct a background check and will you retain the ATF and FBI records in your possession forever, or until you close the business.

Licensees can destroy 4473's after 20 years. There are no FBI records. The FBI NICS transaction# is recorded on the ATF Form 4473.



The SOT is easy.  Once you have an FFL, you send your money in annually and get a Class 2/3 license.  the cost is $500 or $1,000 per year, depending upon your business.

No such animal as a "Class 2/3 license".......its a tax. Period.

That's it.  You can pay me $50, and you know what you need to know.

You don't have to pay dealers on this forum anything.





Link Posted: 12/7/2020 1:13:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Just got the call today, my compliance interview is Friday at 10 am via Facetime.  Covid restrictions and all, they have done all their investigation stuff, I'm good to go just need to do the interview.  The IOI said he could issue that day after submittal to his supervisor, they're worried about a gov shutdown and they'd like to get it complete beforehand.
Link Posted: 12/7/2020 3:13:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 12/7/2020 3:23:25 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:


Congratulations on your new ffl! Strap in and get ready!
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Thank you!  Also thanks again for speaking with me last month or so about it. I’m sure I’ll be calling again!
Link Posted: 12/8/2020 12:24:17 AM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
WTF did you hear it was a four hour interview?
More like less than an hour. But then again I didn't pay $100 for FFL123.
If it takes more than an hour....the IOI is an idiot or you are.
View Quote

Ours took more than an hour because we had to educate the IOI on the manufacturing regs.  Normally she handled 01's and 02's.  Had no idea that the manufacturing log for 07's was different from the typical A&D.
Link Posted: 12/8/2020 3:39:37 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
Just got the call today, my compliance interview is Friday at 10 am via Facetime.  Covid restrictions and all, they have done all their investigation stuff, I'm good to go just need to do the interview.  The IOI said he could issue that day after submittal to his supervisor, they're worried about a gov shutdown and they'd like to get it complete beforehand.
View Quote



I got my interview in Sept. At the interview (I was surprised that it was in person) I asked the IOI about how long it would take to get my license and he said that to get to this stage, I already basically had it and he even gave me my FFL number so I could get a jump start on getting things set up before the actual paper license was issued.
Getting that number in advance like that was very helpful as I used it to submit my application for my SOT. So if you're going that route, it wouldn't hurt to ask your IOI if he wouldn't mind giving it to you.
Link Posted: 12/8/2020 10:22:58 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:



I got my interview in Sept. At the interview (I was surprised that it was in person) I asked the IOI about how long it would take to get my license and he said that to get to this stage, I already basically had it and he even gave me my FFL number so I could get a jump start on getting things set up before the actual paper license was issued.
Getting that number in advance like that was very helpful as I used it to submit my application for my SOT. So if you're going that route, it wouldn't hurt to ask your IOI if he wouldn't mind giving it to you.
View Quote


Asking for the number is exactly what my plan was. Yes I do plan on going the SOT route, and I was thinking the same thing you posted about getting a jump start on things. Thanks for the tip!
Link Posted: 12/9/2020 2:13:27 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:



Or FFL 123
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This is who I used. It actually was a very painless process. Just took time and a little money.
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