And, if a crime, where did the crime occur & who would I report it to?

My FFL is in one county, sale of firearm happened at a show in another county, buyer/disputee resides in yet another county.

Signed receipt, signed 4473, dipped CC transaction.  GaDL# & GaWCL# too.

Language barrier, too. No hablo Engles.

Did you have it cosigned to the FFL?  Need a bit more information, but normally that is just a return which some shops do allow if it turns out the buyer does not like the gun or there is something wrong with the gun.

Depending on the policies of the FFL, I don't see a crime happening when an item is returned, the FFL has the gun now?

Again, need more input..

I am the FFL. The gun was a consignment btw.

I sold the gun, he filled out paperwork, his name matched the CC, driver's & carry license.

I figure his wife is paying the bills & started a request on the sale, but I didn't get his phone number....

Has the gun been returned to you, have you received a report from the CC company stating reasons for the charge back?  If they have initiated a charge back without returning the gun, then that is a problem, normally when I have had a charge back, the CC company has called asked me to look up the records and provide a copy of the records, also they have told me why the customer is not happy, giving me the opportunity to clear things up.  As far as the phone number there are several sources to figure that out.

Now if he is trying to get a free gun out of you, that would be theft of a firearm, which is a felony and could bode very poorly for him.  So I would be calling and gathering information to get a full picture of what is going on.

It is a civil issue, not theft or fraud, yet.  Could be a simple mistake.

I dont think the atf cares theres a chargeback. The "payment" portion of the whole thing is all civil related. Now if he did some funny business with the 4473, or use a fake ID or Something (dont know what) then i think it would be atf related.

In all the businesses ive dealt with a chargeback it was usually a case of a customer not remembering the transaction because when they used their card at a business, the business might have a different name that shows up on the customers credit card statement (such as DBA name on the store, but the billing comes up as the LLC/INC...etc)  and then of course theres the customer that wasnt happy. But that customer has to make a valid claim to be awarded the chargeback. So you need to contact your merchant provider and find out wtf is going on

I guess I am still confused as to what is actually going on here.

Sounds like the average gd guy...oh this rail has a slight scratch instead of call the mfr...just so a charge back!

It's a civil issue, really.

If not a deliberate act by the customer, then I agree it is a civil issue.  I would consult with your attorney and explain the situation as well as see what is going to happen with your credit card processing company, then proceed from there, like said by another, the customer is going to have to have a good justification for filing a charge back claim.

OP is an FFL.  OP sold a gun at a gun show.  Buyer paid using CC, filled out a 4473, etc.  Names and addresses matched on all ID's and the CC.

Buyer has now disputed the charge with his credit card company claiming what?  Stolen card?  Unauthorized use of card?

Obviously you need to send proof - including a copy of the 4473 - to the credit card company.

If you lose the chargeback your recourse is to file a civil suit in small claims court in the buyer's county, hopefully it's not too far away.

I finally figured out what was going on, but people need to really think about their questions before they post, so it comes across clearly.

This has nothing to do with a lawyer. That would just be a waste of money and unless your lawyer is your friend most would not even entertain the issue. Unless its a Civil lawsuit over the small claims threshold which i doubt it is.

OP just needs to find out why the card holder initiated a chargeback. Alot of times its a mistake and/or a verification from the merchant company as well! In those cases the Merchant company just asks for a copy of the signed receipt and thats it. End of story and the merchant company closes the issue.  Considering all the verified id's etc i think its just a mistake/verification issue.

Wrong, I am a FFL7/SOT and my lawyer and I have each other on speed dial and talk regularly, now that I understand what actually happened, it is a civil matter, also, the OP needs to write a detailed explanation of his side of things as well as the purchaser needs to explain his position in requesting the chargeback.

That said, there is no issue to small in the firearms business to not be able to consult with a lawyer, if you don't have a lawyer that is willing to discuss these types of issues, you need to find a different lawyer, gun smart lawyers expect to be called over the small stuff, that is why FFL's hire them.

Now you are free to disagree that is perfectly fine, you handle things in a way that is best for your situation.  I would call my attorney in this situation and make him aware of what has transpired.

Just to add, this type of customer is one of the major reasons I quit doing retail sales and gunshows.

Dispute the charge back.  You have more evidence than just about any business in retail.

Easy, done.

Thanks everyone.

I have provided the signed electronic charge receipt(dipped card), & 4473 copy to Discover.

I have to wait 3 days before contacting Discover again. They review what I provided.

Hopefully, his wife actually initiated the dispute(not her card). Maybe, it's Discover looking after their customer.

If not, I can only guess it was a straw purchase, & woe be unto the buyer...

i understand certain situations call for a lawyer. but my post was directed towards this situation of the OP. Not some other random situation that we arent talking about.

Just outta curiosity, what would a lawyer do for you in a small claims type matter? Considering lawyers arent allowed in small claims. Chargeback matters (unless resolved prior to cc company reversing the charges) are small claims matter unless they cross the small claims limit (not seeing anyone crossing that unless you are selling a transferable and accepting a credit card and if you are i sure hope you are getting blood along with the rest of the regular papers and verifications lol) And a merchant company wont give a rats about anything to do with your lawyer.

chargebacks are relatively simple along with small claims.

Discover Card - "please send us copies of the customers signed receipt"
Mechant - "ok here you go, i sent them to you by fax/email"
Discover Card - "ok thank you mr merchant, everything seems to be in order along with all the other supporting documents you sent, we will dent this chargeback"

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"your honor, the defendant chargebacked this transaction, heres the proof, copies of 4473, his DL copy, signed Credit Card Receipt...etc"

defendant - "uhhhh, yes i did."

Judge - "why?"

defendant - "uuhhhhhh"

Judge - "Judgement for the plantiff in the amount of xxxx for chargebacked transaction plus court costs"

Chargebacks are all just based on proof. You are supposed to "verify" the signature on the back of the card and what the customer signs on the credit card receipt. but i can promise you, barely anyone does. They just match the ID to the card.

So i dont see what your lawyer would do for you. Maybe you are lucky and both of you are chummy and he gives you free advice and/or answers questions.

Unlike my lawyer who is strickly business and thats what i pay him for. So Paying $500/hr for an hour minimum regarding a chargeback makes no sense to me. But if you need to contact your lawyer for every little thing. Then hey, more power to you.

When you run a business you should know how to run the business. Not have a lawyer on speed Dial. Maybe im wrong.

Well 25 years of running a business has worked out quite well for me, consulting with my attorney costs nothing..So you are wrong

Dave to Bob:  Here is what I have going on.

Bob to Dave: Here is what you need to do, yadda, yadda yadda.  If it gets worse and goes sideways, give me a holler and I will give you a hand.

Dave to Bob:  Want to head to the range on Saturday.

Bob to Dave:  Sure Why not, I have a couple of hours open

Dave to Bob: what you want for lunch

Bob to Dave: you pick it up and we will eat it.

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So stop with your bullshit.  My lawyer has been handling our business matters for both my wife and my business's for a long time now.

I never said, that the lawyer needs to go to court, especially small claims court, I said, he should consult with his attorney.

Yes, My lawyer is chummy, but most lawyers are chummy when they are talking to long established customers, I have never been charged for a phone call, the only time I have been charged money is if we have to actually step into a court room and the action proceeds or I need certain types of paperwork drawn up.

I contact my lawyer quite often as I am DOD and LEO contractor, we need to have contracts wrote up and reviewed quite often, as I said, I got out of the retail business because of piss ant customers who thought they could get guns for nothing.

And when it comes down to you, I am not telling you to do it my way, I simply offered my take on things, you offer your take on things and ignore what I have say, no skin off my nose, been doing it this way for a long time now and it has worked out quite well for me.

The 4473 is not proof of sale. An actual receipt would be better. And providing all the personal info on a 4473 to discover, is a bad idea, I hope you redacted it out.

I provided the receipt that he refused.

Discover already has his personal information.

4473 page 2 with his signature & ID, page 3 with item description & my info which is public. If that's not good enough, fuck Discover. I'll politely have them removed from my merchant account. Then go after the gun & buyer legally.

Starting to sound like a setup.  Good luck.

This has happened to me on a online order. Customer didn't recognize the name of the business 30 days later when he got the CC bill. I called him, asked that he contact his CC company, and I submitted the paperwork.

Its so easy to contest a charge. You can basically right click it on your CC website. If they had to fill out the 10 pages they might think before they do it.

This is why I won't do CC / paypal for a face to face transaction. Even more likely to have a chargeback than online purchases with a good paper trail. 1 chargeback takes a couple hours of your most valuable resource.

@anathema did this get resolved?

Nothing came of it.