I read through all the topics here, and searched the 'net but could not find an answer that addressed:

- When travelling from (U.S.) state A to state B (with BATFE authorized/ documented SBRs, trust or personal, from/ to states that allows SBRs), by personal vehicle ('car'), with BATFE authorization to do so (5320.20 response in hand), what about the states I travel through on the way to the destination state? So if I'm driving from FL to MI, what about all those states in between? And what about situations other than a straight drive (stop at hotel, B&B, rest stop, gas station, friend or relative's house for a quick stop, or overnight stop, car breaks down?

thank you in advance...

FOPA protects you for stops for food and gas. Lodging is assumed but it's not explicitly called out.

So I'm of the opinion gas and food are the only allowable stops. Otherwise keep driving through unfriendly states. That said between FL and MI you are in friendly territory the whole way.

FYI FOPA is an affirmative defense. It will not stop you from getting arrested. It will just stop you from getting convicted.

Keep your mouth shut, don't do anything stupid, and you'll be fine.

I've taken SBRs and Suppressors through IL a hundred times. Never a single issue.

got it, thank you

FL was example, I checked the states I'd travel through and thought it might be potentially handy to print the statutes for each state in case of exigent circumstance...shows due diligence and intent to comply with sanctioned activity anyway. I have travelled previously with firearms by air travel and passenger vehicle, never had an issue, but just finished a 16 month wait for paperwork. As I now wait for 5320.20 authorizations figured I might look into more details.

You have an actual cite for that?  Or a court opinion?

Here's the entire text of  18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms (AKA FOPA)

"Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

The words "gas" and "food" appear nowhere.

Maybe avoid NYC no matter what

FOPA is a decent law that should be redone and clarified.

The current law regarding FOPA covers you for the firearm only. It does not protect you for magazines or ammunition.

If you have a shit state that requires a license or permit to possess those items or travel through a state with capacity limits you are not protected even when just passing through.

Easiest thing is to leave your NFA toys at home and not bring them on road trips.  It's simply not worth the risk to yourself, your family when theres little or no protection for you if you encounter un-educated law enforcement.

That's great, until there is an issue.

How often do you get pulled over?

I've been pulled over once, for doing 46 in a 25. My own fault.

I've driven well over 500,000 miles with zero issues apart from my own obvious mistake. Even if I get pulled over, I keep my mouth shut and nothing happens.

This is all way way overblown. Like most things on Arfcom. There are literally only a handful of states that would even give you issue.

Thanks, Big.  I'm aware of the wiki, which actually just cites the info from the concealedcarry.com article.  Single source.  It certainly makes sense, but I can find no actual law or court case that codifies it, and "makes sense" and "what actually happens" aren't always the same.

The reason I ask it because in Revell v. Port Authority (3d Cir. 2010), the case everyone likes to talk about but most don't really understand, the 3rd Circuit held that FOPA was void the moment his luggage (gun) became “readily accessible” to him.   The Third Circuit concluded that once he took his luggage in hand in New Jersey, it became “readily accessible,” and FOPA immunity was lost.   It wouldn't be too hard for some shithead Soros DA to argue that your weapons become "readily accessible" to you when you're stopped at Denny's or Citgo.

Hence the reason for my question (and quest).

Again, I appreciate the discussion. I anticipated that, like so many other things, personal experience and some reference to federal and statutes and potential interpretations might result. All my ARs are NFA. I have flown with them and plan to both fly and drive. I'm thinking I'll print the most official and briefest statutory references I can find (MD has a 1-pager) that show the rule (MD indicates 'no SBRs unless...possessor also has (NFA stamp)'), so if I get in a situation where somebody asks that could cause a big hassle, I at least have something to show a proper resolution.

@furioso

First, thank you for the reminder to re-file my annual 5320.20 forms.  I send around 18 sets annually, each set having 7-8 pages to cover everything.  It’s a massive PITA.  I drive about 30-35,000 miles annually and always have a firearm with me.  Sometimes NFA.  You need approved forms for your destination and for any place where you’re bringing out the firearm for some use.  This can be display at a show, use at a competition, blasting on your Uncle’s back 40, etc.  Beyond that, the law isn’t specific.  Here’s how I do it:

Vehicle:  Roll totally gray man.  No political or gun stickers, check all lights before you travel, get or give yourself a tuneup, check the tires and the spare, have a jump box and any other appropriate emergency equipment, carry spare bulbs, and have some basic tools and zip ties for simple repairs.  I normally have a Haynes manual along too.  Be sure your license, registration, and insurance are current and carry printed evidence of them in your vehicle.  (E-cards are great until you’re somewhere without Internet coverage, your phone is dead/missing, or the cop won’t take it.)  Also, run a sterile cabin; no gun stuff should be in the passenger compartment other than your holstered CCW.

CCW:  Verify you’re legal in all states before carrying through.  Not doing so is probably more serious than leaving your driver license at home.

5320.20:  Leave the original at home in a safe place.  Carry copies.  

Magazine limits, bans, and other stupidity:  Look into these before travel.  A SBR AR is subject to feature bans like Title I long guns.  Ensure your mags for carry and for the SBR are legal.  Check into state weirdness like needing a C&R to have any SBR (IL), needing CLEO permission to have a MG (WI), etc.

Closed states:  Avoid.  If unavoidable due to geography, don’t stop for the night.  Gas, food, or bathroom only.  Even those should be minimized.

Overnights:  I do a 5320.20 for all overnight stops.  This may require pre-planning routes and choosing hotels well in advance.

Your security:  Hotel rooms aren’t that secure,  The car gets unloaded into the hotel room.  Once everything is in there, it STAYS in there for the night.  This means going to eat before unloading or doing delivery food.

While Driving:  Use Waze.  Consider a handheld CB for any important trucker chatter about speed traps.  Watch the traffic, compare it to the speed limit, and drive like the locals.  Check your lights whenever you stop.  (I got pulled over when a taillight went out during a trip.  It was fine when I left!)

Discretion:  This can be for liberal areas within good states (Austin in Texas, Philadelphia in Pennsylvania, etc.) or it can be avoiding thieves in solid places.  Use disguised gun cases whenever possible.  For example, Check out (scroll down) this garment bag.  Or consider this chair bag once it’s back in stock.  Though you’ll have to hunt the used market, a sadly-discontinued Blackhawk tennis racquet bag is great.  FWIW, rolling tool boxes and stuff like the Milwaukee Packout Rolling Tool Chest also work, but thieves are attracted to seemingly expensive tools.  They’re a mixed bag.  Instrument cases are another option.  Try to find a used one and DIY to save money, but find a way to lock the case.  Thieves may also be attracted to instrument cases, though less so than tools.  I may or may not have once transported a M60 MG in a wheeled cello case covered in John Kerry, vegan, and similar stickers.  And there’s nothing wrong with breaking down the AR upper and lower and transporting them within your suitcase.

Hotels:  Anonymity is your friend.  A B&B, unless you know they’re friendly, is impossible to be anonymous.  But on the other extreme, large resorts and hotels may have their own dedicated security team.  (Disney, Vegas, etc.)  I like mid/size motor lodges (where the doors open to the parking lot making unloading and loading easy) to places around the size of a Double Tree; too large for everybody to know you and too small for nosy professional security.  FWIW, try to avoid any place popular with high schools or colleges for meets and events.  The Karen quotient is usually too high, especially for girl’s meets.

Emergencies:  The best fight is the one you avoid.  You can’t break down or get sick in a closed state if you aren’t there in the first place.  You also checked your car before you left.  But sometimes bad things happen.  Get off the main road and into a privately owned parking lot (store, etc.) so you don’t attract LE.  If you can fix the issue yourself, do so.  If not, Google for repairs.  Do everything possible to avoid removing an obvious gun case in a parking lot.  If you must to access a spare tire, put it on the back seat with a blanket on top.  If your windows have tint, use a black blanket,  Though it has its faults, an AAA membership or similar is money you see as wasted until you NEED it.  If you’re sick, get to an urgent care.  If the doc says to get a hotel, get it in writing “for work” and do so.  If stupid happens, you have a MD who advised you IN WRITING to stop due to illness.  Don’t forget the Arf HTF for that state.  I wouldn’t announce “I’m here with a SBR and need help,” but I would explain that you’re stranded and need a good mechanic, doc, etc.

I’ve been accused of paranoia, but none of those folks had ever offered to cover the cost of a confiscated gun, pay any legal bills, cover any fines, or do my time.  Until that happens, this is how I travel.

Good luck, sir!

Attached File

That "chair cover" is neat, thanks.  Too bad they don't have a "notify me" when back in stock option.  I'd be down for a SBS-sized option too.

Sometimes I wonder if these caveats are supposed to be humorous or if customers are this dumb:

*No chair is included.
**No shotgun is included.
**Don’t use your shotgun as a chair.

I wouldn’t doubt some half wit has called to bitch about one of the above !

Time lines for 5320?

Assume you mean the 5320.20.

2 weeks.

8 weeks with no reply


They must have taken my aft posts seriously

Email them.

I've had one get lost in the mail. Right before I moved states. They gave me the approval over the phone and said if I run into issues tell them to chat up the ATF.

Say someone's career entails short notice with regard to free-time, and they maintain a calendar of events and places they might be able to visit in the upcoming year. But they don't where or when they will have the time to do so.

Is it acceptable to the ATF to fill in the from/to date range on the 5320.20 for an entire year, and provide a non-specific location for question 8 (transporting to)?

Yes, several people including myself do this exact thing every year to essentially have a ready pass at all times.  In my case, I live about 10 miles from the OH-PA border and have friends over there and go to some ranges in PA, so it's nice not having to worry about it.

I always use a public shooting range I might otherwise visit anyway as the address.  Once you have permission to go over state lines, there's not really a firm requirement you actually go to that address.  It's more of an administrative thing for the ATF.  Some people even use something as simple as a gas station right over the border on their most frequent route.  

And as for the time frame, make sure it is one year and not a single day more or it will be denied.  So for example, 10/3/22 to 10/3/23 would be denied, because that's one year plus a day.  10/3/22 to 10/2/22 would be approved.

I would think you could make a case for ONE magazine since it's an integral part of the weapon.

They responded within the hour "generally 60 days or less"

I provided them with my full name and address on the inquiry, I guess either it's not done or they didn't feel like looking it up.

I've never heard of it taking that long. Ever.

My longest 5320.20 was three weeks. And I've filed probably 2 dozen of them now.

In that case I'm glad I'm exempt from filing them now.

It wouldn't surprise me if all the 5320.20 forms just go into a big pile and get worked though chronologically.  The first time anyone actually picks up your form and looks at it is when it comes up in the pile to get reviewed and approved or denied, I don't think they do any initial data entry or scrutinizing until it gets to that one and final check.  That's why they can't provide any details about it's progress and give a boilerplate arbitrarily time estimate.

That makes sense.

Oh well, we twiddle our thumbs until the overlords give their blessing.

Thanks for the replies/help!

Quick question for the smart people. I’m going to CO next month to hunt and am bringing a silencer. Do I need to fill out a 5320.20? It seems to only apply to SBR’s, SBS’s?

Not needed for suppressors or AOWs.

Needed for SBRs, SBSs, and MGs.

Thank you, sir ????

Suppose I have a pistol, decide to SBR it and put a stock on it. If I want to travel, can I put a brace back on it so it's configured as a pistol again?

Yes.