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Posted: 1/18/2019 4:26:38 PM EDT
What is on the market for image stabilized I2?  Magnified only, somewhere in the neighborhood of 10x to 18x power.  Gen 3 only please.  Either monocular or binocular.
Link Posted: 1/18/2019 11:22:17 PM EDT
[#1]
There's only two products that fit the bill as far as I know, Fujinon Stabiscope or Fraser-Volpe M25 series binoculars. Both use swappable NV eyepieces and only the latter is still in production. The new price tag makes goggles look cheap in comparison.

The Fuji Stabiscope has 10x magnification and was made with both Gen 2 and Gen 3 eyepieces. NV magnification is slightly less than 10. Have not seen any Gen 3 eyepieces that use anything beyond an Omni 3 tube. Image quality is great though and overall very pleasant. The optical system is perfectly designed and the tubes are optimized for this role (custom tubes with flat output fiber couplers).

The FV M25 series of binoculars has 14x magnification and come in a civilian and military flavor, the main distinction being that the mil version has built-in non-removable laser filters. The NV eyepieces were made for a while and can come with Omni 4 or Omni 7 tubes, probably everything in between as well. FV seems to have selected tubes specifically for use in eyepieces. NV magnification is somewhat less than 14x. As great as every other design aspect is, the NV eyepieces have two flaws that really should not be there. The ocular lenses downstream of the tubes are not optimized for use with standard 10130 series intensifiers that have a slightly concave output fiber coupler and the optics upstream seem to have AR coatings that start to come up short in the red/NIR range resulting in minor spurious reflections/glare that really shouldn't be there. Don't get me wrong, these are minor issues and the reason they stand out is because every other aspect of the binoculars is perfect, at least in regard to my tastes.

Coupling a PVS-14 to any binocs, stabilized or not, is a very workable solution and may be the easiest route if you can tolerate the somewhat unwieldy form-factor. When it gets really dark though, I prefer to use a PVS-14 with a 3x magnifier instead. The optics on either binocular are about f/6 whereas a 3x magnifier is way faster, around f/1.4 (I forget the exact value). The much faster and larger 3x magnifier lets in way more light and helps produce a picture that can be perceived to be equally detailed due to the brighter view. Again, only an issue when it's really dark.
Link Posted: 1/18/2019 11:59:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There's only two products that fit the bill as far as I know, Fujinon Stabiscope or Fraser-Volpe M25 series binoculars. Both use swappable NV eyepieces and only the latter is still in production. The new price tag makes goggles look cheap in comparison.

The Fuji Stabiscope has 10x magnification and was made with both Gen 2 and Gen 3 eyepieces. NV magnification is slightly less than 10. Have not seen any Gen 3 eyepieces that use anything beyond an Omni 3 tube. Image quality is great though and overall very pleasant. The optical system is perfectly designed and the tubes are optimized for this role (custom tubes with flat output fiber couplers).

The FV M25 series of binoculars has 14x magnification and come in a civilian and military flavor, the main distinction being that the mil version has built-in non-removable laser filters. The NV eyepieces were made for a while and can come with Omni 4 or Omni 7 tubes, probably everything in between as well. FV seems to have selected tubes specifically for use in eyepieces. NV magnification is somewhat less than 14x. As great as every other design aspect is, the NV eyepieces have two flaws that really should not be there. The ocular lenses  seem to have AR coatings that start to come up short in the red/NIR range resulting in minor spurious reflections/glare that really shouldn't be there. Don't get ....
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Thank you very much. I really appreciate your help on this.  As you mentioned the prices are quite high and there seems to be little info online.  For my application I need 10x or greater (ergo stabilized too).

So are you saying that on moonless nights the Fraser is not on par with a good high FOM  PVS14?   It is just a bit dim with poor contrast when compared to the fast glass you described?  Or is the difference substantial?

Also, any insight on the performance of the Fraser monocular?  The NV eyepiece looks to be constructed differently.
Link Posted: 1/19/2019 4:56:00 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Thank you very much. I really appreciate your help on this.  As you mentioned the prices are quite high and there seems to be little info online.  For my application I need 10x or greater (ergo stabilized too).

So are you saying that on moonless nights the Fraser is not on par with a good high FOM  PVS14?   It is just a bit dim with poor contrast when compared to the fast glass you described?  Or is the difference substantial?

Also, any insight on the performance of the Fraser monocular?  The NV eyepiece looks to be constructed differently.
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These are not your every day binoculars I guess but the performance is just so great, it's totally worth it. The NV eyepieces seem to be even rarer. At 10x, stabilization is a must, I agree, but if you can get away with a tripod of some kind, that opens up a lot of different options. Had good luck using DSLR camera lenses with NV. A 400mm lens and a filmless tube gave me a 16x monocular that was hard to beat performance-wise. You could also get a NV camera adapter like from Astroscope and then rely on an image stabilized camera lens. Just throwing out all the options.

The difference really is something that needs to be experienced first hand. The F-V binocs have a place and can do things a PVS-14 with a 3x lens cannot but in the situations I typically am in, the PVS-14/magnifier combo gets used more often. It depends on what you're looking at and what you're trying to see. Looking at bright objects and trying to bring out detail, the F-V binocs with NV eyepieces are the clear winner. Examples: tightly grouped star clusters, looking somewhere that has some minimal ambient light like a porch light, inside a car that has a person using a phone, near a streetlight, identifying a distant car. If I'm looking at an open field, I find a PVS-14 with a magnifier more useful. Faster to locate something and see it in relationship to where I am and where everything is, even if the detail is lacking. Better for initial acquisition could be one way of putting it. The slower glass makes things considerably dimmer and if you're used to the bright image of a PVS-14, it'll be different. Just the nature of the optics. The tubes themselves can be high FOM. Was lucky enough that the tubes in my eyepieces are very high performance. Some of my fave tubes when used in something 1x.

Haven't used any of their monoculars. They seem to be half of their Bylite or M25A1 binoculars, which have non-removable eyepieces and no provision for NV unless using a PVS-14 downstream. If they have a monocular with swappable eyepieces, I would be interested. To save cost, you could also consider buying only one NV eyepiece. I seldom install both when playing around and if I take the binocs on a trip, I usually one bring one NV eyepiece.
Link Posted: 1/19/2019 10:32:09 AM EDT
[#4]
Should be available as an EBAPS system from Intevac.

It's Gallium Arsenide based, and is technically a Gen3 photocathode, but the back end is a little different.

David.
Link Posted: 1/19/2019 10:11:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Here is the Fraser monocular with removable eyepieces.  They appear to have dedicated NV eyepieces only for the monocular.

https://store.mssdefence.com/with-image-stabilization/341-fraser-optics-fraser-optics-14x40mm-gyro-stabilized-monolite-removable-eyepieces-with-image-stabilization.html

Was the 400mm lens you mentioned an F2.8?
Link Posted: 1/19/2019 10:14:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:

Should be available as an EBAPS system from Intevac.

It's Gallium Arsenide based, and is technically a Gen3 photocathode, but the back end is a little different.

David.
View Quote
Would you mind translating for the layman please?
Link Posted: 1/20/2019 12:04:38 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here is the Fraser monocular with removable eyepieces.  They appear to have dedicated NV eyepieces only for the monocular.

https://store.mssdefence.com/with-image-stabilization/341-fraser-optics-fraser-optics-14x40mm-gyro-stabilized-monolite-removable-eyepieces-with-image-stabilization.html

Was the 400mm lens you mentioned an F2.8?
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That's cool. Would guess that the M25/Stedi-Eye NV eyepieces are not compatible just based on looks. Interesting device and could be the optimal performance to dollar solution.

It was a 400mm f4.5-5.6 Canon lens I borrowed from a friend. It's f/4.5 at shorter focal lengths, at the full 400mm it's f/5.6. A dedicated 400mm f/2.8 lens would be amazing. Image stabilization kinda confines you to more modern lenses, otherwise there's some (relative) deals to be had on older fast lenses that don't have electronic focus or stabilization.
Link Posted: 1/20/2019 4:14:32 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Would you mind translating for the layman please?
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Electron Bombarded Active Pixel Sensor or something like that from memory. Basically instead of a screen, they stick a CMOS camera in behind the photocathode.

Anyway, because it's digital to begin with, they can stabilize the image.

David.
Link Posted: 1/20/2019 8:55:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Understood. Thanks fellas.
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