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Posted: 11/10/2019 8:39:36 PM EDT

I’ve been looking through the M16 pic thread... but it kinda took a dump with photobucket going down and it’s fairly old.

Curious what everyone’s favorite M16 setup is. I recently shot a 20” A1 style and a 14.5” upper. Looking to set something up a little more modern.

I’ve realized heat is a major issue. I’d ideally shoot suppressed but I’m thinking the can is going to get really hot, really fast. Any pointers. Unsuppressed is fine, too, I suppose.

I’m leaning towards a MK18 type 10.5 upper or a Block 1.5 14.5” upper .

Any suggestions on a spring/ buffer combo? I was going to get the springco enhanced Blue spring. Not sure on a good buffer for FA

Posted: 11/10/2019 9:00:40 PM EDT

[#1]

My favorite AR set up is an 20" A2 HB with A1 pistol grip and triangle forearms.

Posted: 11/10/2019 9:06:56 PM EDT

[#2]

Here's some light reading: I asked a similar question

As to the ideal upper you'll have to find out that one on your own, everything is fun in FA. Currently my favorite blast-o-rama configuration is a pieced together upper using an old Colt 14.5" barrel with an Osprey piston conversion.

Occasionally I do run an AAC M4-2000, things get hot & dirty real fast tho.

Posted: 11/10/2019 9:22:32 PM EDT

[#3]

Thanks. I’ll dig through that more later. Did you end up shooting the A5 system with the hydraulic buffer?

And how is the piston upper? I thought about running some type of LWRC upper, too

Posted: 11/10/2019 9:27:46 PM EDT

[#4]

For me, it’s 10.5 suppressed. I love it. My Turbo-K is still in jail, so I’m using my old Phantom M2 and appreciate the shorter barrel to offset the long and heavy can.

I haven’t shot many different lengths. My 20” upper is set aside for when I get around to picking up some copper bullets, same with the Colt 14.5” I have on my M4 clone. I run two 10.5”, a CL & nitride, and I prefer to shoot suppressed more. My 7.5” is loud, fast, and rattles my teeth; it REALLY scratches the “I wanna shoot full auto” itch.

I’m only a couple thousand into my M16 ownership, so I’m sure the serious shooters will be along shortly to discuss what they prefer.

Posted: 11/10/2019 9:30:09 PM EDT

[#5]

Also, I’m using standard length carbine RE + H3. I have the POF model that protects the receiver threads, that was worth it IMO. I might switch to A5 if I ever go with a CMMG Guard since amphibian has a lot of testing data with it, but I’ve been happy with my carbine tube.

Posted: 11/10/2019 9:53:15 PM EDT

[#6]

For most of what little 5.56x45 shooting I do, I have a 10.5" heavy bbl. with screwed on suppressor upper. For 9mm I have a a couple mag well adapters (Glock mag and Uzi mag) and a 16" bbl., straight blow back upper as I am a purely recreational shooter, and I do not consider the CMMG RDB system to have a favorable cost-to-benefit ratio for my purposes. For the last several years I've mostly shot .22LR, and now usually use a 9" bbl. dedicated .22LR upper (assembled it last spring) though I still occasionally use a .22LR conversion unit in a 16" bbl. 5.56x45 upper.

So my opinion is, there is no one ideal M16 setup; and what makes the M16 so nice is the M16 generally quick and convenient modularity provides a veritable plethora of setups that can be customized to ones purposes and preferences.

Best of luck with whatever you pursue, and be well.

Posted: 11/10/2019 10:09:28 PM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:
Also, I’m using standard length carbine RE + H3. I have the POF model that protects the receiver threads, that was worth it IMO. I might switch to A5 if I ever go with a CMMG Guard since amphibian has a lot of testing data with it, but I’ve been happy with my carbine tube.

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Quoted:
Also, I’m using standard length carbine RE + H3. I have the POF model that protects the receiver threads, that was worth it IMO. I might switch to A5 if I ever go with a CMMG Guard since amphibian has a lot of testing data with it, but I’ve been happy with my carbine tube.

More great info from everyone. Seems like 10.5 is a hit.

Is this the tube you’re referring to? If it helps protect the receiver then it’s worth it in my opinion, these are all things I didn’t know about.
Buffer tube at PA

Quoted:
For most of what little 5.56x45 shooting I do, I have a 10.5" heavy bbl. with screwed on suppressor upper. For 9mm I have a a couple mag well adapters (Glock mag and Uzi mag) and a 16" bbl., straight blow back upper as I am a purely recreational shooter, and I do not consider the CMMG RDB system to have a favorable cost-to-benefit ratio for my purposes. For the last several years I've mostly shot .22LR, and now usually use a 9" bbl. dedicated .22LR upper (assembled it last spring) though I still occasionally use a .22LR conversion unit in a 16" bbl. 5.56x45 upper.

So my opinion is, there is no one ideal M16 setup; and what makes the M16 so nice is the M16 generally quick and convenient modularity provides a veritable plethora of setups that can be customized to ones purposes and preferences.

Best of luck with whatever you pursue, and be well.

Thanks. What magwel adapter have you used for the Glock 9mm mags? ATI Or stern?

Posted: 11/10/2019 10:11:06 PM EDT

[#8]

I have 3 upper for my M16.

1) Self defense - 10.5" suppressed with, lights, laser, optics, etc...
2) LMG - heavy barreled 10.5" with bipod. Great for mag dumps and new shooters.
3) M4 carbine - flat top with carry handle. For when you want that classic feel.

Planning to add a MK12/SPR upper in the near future. Also would like to replace the 10.5" on the LMG to something longer to help add weight, reduce recoil, reduce sound/concussion

Posted: 11/11/2019 6:25:00 AM EDT

[#9]

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Is this the tube you’re referring to? If it helps protect the receiver then it’s worth it in my opinion, these are all things I didn’t know about.
Buffer tube at PA

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Yes, that’s the one. I really like the thread engagement and protection of the lower. IIRC, it was designed to prevent carrier tilt by keeping the carrier from leaving the tube. While it’s not as major of a factor on a DI upper, I believe it better protects the receiver.

Posted: 11/11/2019 9:18:24 AM EDT

[#10]

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Thanks. I’ll dig through that more later. Did you end up shooting the A5 system with the hydraulic buffer?

And how is the piston upper? I thought about running some type of LWRC upper, too

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I've collected all the parts for the A5 system except the Kynshot buffer, I'm hoping for a Black Friday sale! Truth be told this A5 setup will be on a lower that will host a DIAS thats still pending so no big rush on my part to build it out.

For years I ran a rifle stock & Enidine rifle buffer on my M16 setup but finally caved and went to a CAR stock like all the cool kids, it does make storage & transport easier. I run a POF tube with an Enidine hydraulic buffer on my RR now and I'm okay with it as mentioned in the other thread. My reasoning is that I would benefit from the longer LOP the A5 length tubes offer plus an even smoother & slower cyclic rate.

As to the piston upper I absolutely love it - cleaner and no real weight penalty that some complain about. I've run several piston uppers owned by friends and no problems with any of them except one particular setup that resulted in a broken trigger pin and chewed up standard CAR buffer tube. IIRC it was an older ARES or Bushmaster kit and we were running it suppressed with a Beta mag.

Way over gassed with the can and carrier tilt damaged the buffer tube so lesson learned.

For now my 14.5" 5.56 upper and a 22LR upper see the most action, I will probably shoot my 7.63X39 a little more this year just to spread the love. I can't tell you the last time I had my 9mm or 11.5" 5.56 uppers on the M16 because I own MP5s in 9 & 10mm plus HK53 clones to satisfy those urges.

Posted: 11/11/2019 10:03:19 AM EDT

[#11]

My 2 favorite set ups are as follows ( on a colt m16a1)

11.5 inch colt upper with fbi barrel and surefire 556 soccom suppressor

16 inch colt 6721 upper with 556 soccom suppressor

I have a 20 inch and 14.5 inch upper but don’t shoot those much.

I do run a slash’s 8.5 ounce carbine buffer with a Wolff spring. My brass lands where it should and the gun is not too fast. The gun is 100% reliable.

If I switch to a rifle stock I have a slash’s xtra heavy rifle buffer I use.

Good luck

Posted: 11/11/2019 10:52:07 AM EDT

[#12]

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Thanks. What magwel adapter have you used for the Glock 9mm mags? ATI Or stern?

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Quoted:
For most of what little 5.56x45 shooting I do, I have a 10.5" heavy bbl. with screwed on suppressor upper. For 9mm I have a a couple mag well adapters (Glock mag and Uzi mag) and a 16" bbl., straight blow back upper as I am a purely recreational shooter, and I do not consider the CMMG RDB system to have a favorable cost-to-benefit ratio for my purposes. For the last several years I've mostly shot .22LR, and now usually use a 9" bbl. dedicated .22LR upper (assembled it last spring) though I still occasionally use a .22LR conversion unit in a 16" bbl. 5.56x45 upper.

So my opinion is, there is no one ideal M16 setup; and what makes the M16 so nice is the M16 generally quick and convenient modularity provides a veritable plethora of setups that can be customized to ones purposes and preferences.

Best of luck with whatever you pursue, and be well.

Thanks. What magwel adapter have you used for the Glock 9mm mags? ATI Or stern?

Neither - I have a Sylvan Arms branded adapter. I believe that the same adapter is also marketed under another brand name as well. In any case, I got that particular type of adapter because it does not have LRBHO. With 9mm (or .45 ACP, for that matter - I haven't shot that upper in several years) forward moving bolt force can sometimes cause bolt catch breakage when the LRBHO is tripped. Typically, for 9mm usage a stroke limiting spacer is installed at the bottom of the buffer tube to reduce the bolt speed and the likelihood of bolt catch breakage. I use a standard so-called 9mm, mechanical two-piece buffer and standard carbine stock, buffer tube, and spring for all uppers. I do not want to have to take parts in and out of the buffer tube. Swapping adapters and uppers is my limit. Also, Uzi mags are not designed to trip the bolt catch, so I don't have LRBHO in either 9mm configuration.

And for the 10.5" suppressed 5.56 upper, I forgot to mention that it exhibited gas blow back at the charging handle. So I put silicone around the space between the charge handle and the upper receiver per directions that are on the internet. Lots of users buy the gas blocking charging handles which may be a better alternative if one shoots a lot of suppressed 5.56.

Good luck.

Posted: 11/11/2019 7:21:57 PM EDT

[#13]

If you are thinking about doing a 9mm M16 configuration, I would strongly advise you to go with the CMMG RDB setup....see my post here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/-/48-500494/?r=&page=3#i5137317
No messing around with mag blocks or anything that can possibly marr your lower receiver.

I go over a lot of stuff on the CMMG RDB here: http://c3junkie.com/?page_id=956

Regarding the buffer tube, as others have mentioned, I'm using the A5 now but before that I was using the PWS buffer tube and the ratcheting castle nut. The tube is like the POF in that it is designed to protect the lower from carrier tilt: https://www.primaryweapons.com/product-url-6668
but I think it has a superior castle nut that ratchets.

I personally don't care for the 'piston' systems. I have several of them I don't use anymore except for one and that is the belt fed Ares Shrike.
I don't think you can get them to run as smooth as a standard AR gas system.

However, even with the Shrike, I don't have any issues with carrier tilt and using an A5 tube.

Posted: 11/11/2019 9:52:00 PM EDT

[#14]

M16 LSW/LMG is my favorite firing from an open bolt.

Thermal View of machine guns, suppressors, tracers and bullets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSoUKqgi8ok

Posted: 11/11/2019 10:44:41 PM EDT

[#15]

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M16 LSW/LMG is my favorite firing from an open bolt.

http://weaponblueprints.com/mongo/pictures/M16-right-side.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSoUKqgi8ok

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Nice. I’ve read about that... doesn’t it require a special sear to hold the bolt open? On top of the LMG upper

Posted: 11/12/2019 9:49:04 AM EDT

[#16]

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Nice. I've read about that... doesn't it require a special sear to hold the bolt open? On top of the LMG upper

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The hammer does dual duty. It catches the bolt in the open position and it also hits the FP.

A few threads:https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/Select-fire-open-bolt-lower-pin-locations/29-292337/
Patent info: https://patents.google.com/patent/US4433610

Neat design but me personally, wouldn't do it to a transferrable lower.

Posted: 11/12/2019 9:58:05 AM EDT

[#17]

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Nice. I've read about that... doesn't it require a special sear to hold the bolt open? On top of the LMG upper

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The entire trigger group, bolt stop, and bolt carrier are different than a standard M16. The hammer becomes the sear while still acting as a hammer.

People without experience will assume and spread the information that the trigger group pin holes will egg out but this is my second one and both are transferable gun receivers. My first one had 50K rounds through it without any issues to the lower. I monitor my lowers and have never seen any effects from the conversion. You do need to use the proper recoil spring and hydraulic buffer the system is designed to work with.

For me fullauto rifles really are not that much fun unless you just feel like empty mags down range to make noise. LMGs, the core of my collection, are much more interesting and useful in full auto.

BTW the gun is full auto only, open bolt with this trigger group.

How it works.

Posted: 11/12/2019 10:07:24 PM EDT

[#18]

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Quoted:
M16 LSW/LMG is my favorite firing from an open bolt...

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+1, except I use my older version Colt LMG upper in closed-bolt form on my Oly/PAWS RR, using a regular M16 BCG and FCG:

Or with a "retro" A1 11.5" upper with triangle handguards:

Posted: 11/12/2019 10:56:42 PM EDT

[#19]

11.5 SOLGW setup is my go to

Posted: 11/13/2019 12:55:37 PM EDT

[#20]

Colt m4 SOCOM heavy barrel 14.5 inch upper with Geissele mk16 rail, LMT e-carrier, kahles K16i in a Geissele 2.04” mount, Sandman K suppressor, h3 buffer. It’s so smooth shooting. It’s an ideal setup for me.

Posted: 11/13/2019 7:04:50 PM EDT

[#21]

My only M16 setup. Colt 614 with PSA CHF 12.5" barrel upper, Magpul furniture, and Enidine hydraulic buffer. Runs great.

Attached File

Posted: 11/14/2019 11:38:23 AM EDT

[#22]

Appreciate the replies.. Some great upgrades displayed here. Also gotta figure out an optic

Posted: 11/14/2019 2:48:27 PM EDT

[#23]

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Appreciate the replies.. Some great upgrades displayed here. Also gotta figure out an optic

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Raking the target area with a mag dump from the hip needs no optic. Use the money you were going to spend on some sort of optic for more ammo.

ETA: Target area raking device:

Posted: 11/14/2019 8:57:13 PM EDT

[#24]

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Appreciate the replies.. Some great upgrades displayed here. Also gotta figure out an optic

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I’d look for a used CompM2. I’ve used an PA T-1 clone on my 7.5” upper with no ill effect. I like the larger 30mm FOV for FA plinking, but the T-1 makes it feel so damn light!

Posted: 11/14/2019 9:40:06 PM EDT

[#25]

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Raking the target area with a mag dump from the hip needs no optic. Use the money you were going to spend on some sort of optic for more ammo.

ETA: Target area raking device:
https://i.imgur.com/2jK53li.jpg

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True, but nice for controlled burst fire.

Posted: 11/17/2019 6:51:31 PM EDT

[#26]

Approximately tied:

Posted: 11/18/2019 10:47:16 AM EDT

[#27]

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True, but nice for controlled burst fire.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Raking the target area with a mag dump from the hip needs no optic. Use the money you were going to spend on some sort of optic for more ammo.

ETA: Target area raking device:
https://i.imgur.com/2jK53li.jpg

True, but nice for controlled burst fire.

I do use optics on some upper assemblies. Both of my 9mm AR uppers have EoTech battery killers on them. The ambidextrous, top cocking upper receiver in the photo does not lend itself to the mounting of optics, even on the rail on the hand guard. So the pictured upper is used for .22LR buzz gunning.

Posted: 11/21/2019 11:52:38 PM EDT

[#28]

Digging the 10.5" setup...

Seems like a springco blue spring would be good. Any opinions on H2 vs H3 buffers? Going to grab spikes powder tungsten buffer

Posted: 11/22/2019 8:53:39 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
Digging the 10.5" setup...

Seems like a springco blue spring would be good. Any opinions on H2 vs H3 buffers? Going to grab spikes powder tungsten buffer

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I thought I read here that tungsten powder was no bueno as you lose the dead blow effect of the weights in the buffer, which is the hammering force to counteract bolt bounce.

I run H3 + red most times. The H1 + red runs faster. I’ll eventually get an H2 “just because.” I bought mine from PSA because they were cheap. I don’t have a blue spring, only red and white so I use red.

Posted: 11/22/2019 10:41:40 AM EDT

[#30]

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I thought I read here that tungsten powder was no bueno as you lose the dead blow effect of the weights in the buffer, which is the hammering force to counteract bolt bounce.

I run H3 + red most times. The H1 + red runs faster. I'll eventually get an H2 "just because." I bought mine from PSA because they were cheap. I don't have a blue spring, only red and white so I use red.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Digging the 10.5" setup...

Seems like a springco blue spring would be good. Any opinions on H2 vs H3 buffers? Going to grab spikes powder tungsten buffer

I thought I read here that tungsten powder was no bueno as you lose the dead blow effect of the weights in the buffer, which is the hammering force to counteract bolt bounce.

I run H3 + red most times. The H1 + red runs faster. I'll eventually get an H2 "just because." I bought mine from PSA because they were cheap. I don't have a blue spring, only red and white so I use red.

See my post towards the bottom of this thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Buffer-and-Spring-recommendation/20-500357/

Posted: 11/22/2019 5:55:58 PM EDT

[#31]

Great info. Thanks

Posted: 11/23/2019 5:29:34 PM EDT

[#32]

Why pick just one setup?

I currently have 14 uppers, from 7" (DOE 9mm) to 20" LMG that I run closed-bolt. Of these, I regularly shoot 11.5", 14.5" and 20" uppers most often. I also have carbine, rifle and A5 length stocks, and more buffers/spring combos than I can count.

Of course, I bought my M16A1 more than 25 years ago and have way more than 50k rounds through it, so it's fun to change things up a bit, all the time.

The joy of owning an M16 is that it is the Barbie Doll of machine guns.

Your Mileage May Vary.

Posted: 11/24/2019 2:43:18 PM EDT

[#33]

MK18 with full stock

Posted: 11/28/2019 12:52:26 AM EDT

[#34]

I did a decent amount of searching before deciding on a upper and I just went with a PWS MK111 Mod 2 for my 614. I will be running the upper suppressed with a Saker/Omega/Nomad 99% of the time and the piston upper seamed the way to go for the cleanliness. I also run a Geissele SSF trigger and a Holopoint HE510C-GR. People make fun of a $300 holo on such a expensive gat but the big green circle does the best job on a MG. I just got this put together and will be running it for the first time in the next week.

Posted: 11/29/2019 9:24:18 AM EDT

[#35]

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I did a decent amount of searching before deciding on a upper and I just went with a PWS MK111 Mod 2 for my 614. I will be running the upper suppressed with a Saker/Omega/Nomad 99% of the time and the piston upper seamed the way to go for the cleanliness. I also run a Geissele SSF trigger and a Holopoint HE510C-GR. People make fun of a $300 holo on such a expensive gat but the big green circle does the best job on a MG. I just got this put together and will be running it for the first time in the next week.

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Nice. Post back when you fire that 9mm belt fed upper. I've got one and it's pretty fun. Haven't been able to get out and shoot it much. Check out amphibian's posts on spring and buffer combo for it. Works very well.

Posted: 1/3/2020 2:37:25 AM EDT

[#36]

a 10.5" upper, suppressed with a H2 buffer and Springco Blue spring is smooth as butter.

Now to see what 14.5" will be like

But the suppressors gets stupid hot. I find myself rotating firearms to keep it from over heating

Posted: 1/3/2020 12:20:26 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
a 10.5" upper, suppressed with a H2 buffer and Springco Blue spring is smooth as butter.

Now to see what 14.5" will be like

But the suppressors gets stupid hot. I find myself rotating firearms to keep it from over heating

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The suppressors trap a lot of heat in the firearms. I typically only do 1-2 mags through a suppressed upper before I let it cool, where as I can get 3-4 mags out of a unsuppressed upper.

Posted: 1/4/2020 12:20:26 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

I thought I read here that tungsten powder was no bueno as you lose the dead blow effect of the weights in the buffer, which is the hammering force to counteract bolt bounce...

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That would likely be the case if the buffer was over filled with tungsten powder. According to the H & K patent, there should be a so-called working space where the tungsten granules move.

Patent drawings if you scroll down here:
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search/family/007157450/publication/US3283435A?q=US3283435

Patent text here:
https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=03283435&IDKey=CD74FBA128AA%0D%0A&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D3283435.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F3283435%2526RS%3DPN%2F3283435

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