Just wanting to start a discussion thread about the "god hammer" from Israel, the TS12. I'm curious what are some opinions and thoughts from those that have both owned one or just did their homework into this beast.

My first impression was "wow that's a lot lighter than it looked", followed by being amazed at the engineering behind it.

I'm not the type of man that dribbles down my leg over fancy language and appearances. Your thread would probably get a little more attention if you weren't speaking as if you're dribbling down your own leg over a shotgun. But I'll go ahead. It's definitely a neat shotgun and as a guy that was working on (ok, dabbling into the realm of possibilities of) multi-tube fed shotgun design ideas before Keltec even dropped the KSG on us, it definitely speaks to me.

My thoughts, it's a short, maneuverable, single-purpose (defensive) shotgun that does offer some great features with only a few problems and drawbacks.

I'm sure you're aware of the many good points so I will point out the bad points.

#1 the design of the top rail and it's interface with the plastic housing is bad. As an engineer, I understand WHY they chose to do it that way but it opens up the rail to damage if you were to ever go down hard on the gun etc. The entire top rail is cantilevered over the barrel with only about 0.75" of metal-on-metal contact at the very rear where it attaches to the trunion. You have to disassemble the 2 clamshell halves of the grip housing to see/know this. The rest of the rail has an interdependent support relationship with the plastic housing and forward grip. The rail helps support each of them, and they each help support the rail.

#2 It gets VERY finicky with 3" shells. The bolt throw and ejection port opening are at the bare minimum to cycle 3" so when you get 3" shells with casings slightly longer than average it starts stove-piping. My buddy had about 30% stove pipes running Federal 3" buck.

#3 The charging handle is non-reciprocating. Some may see this as a plus. However, I've found that sometimes it will hang up partially into battery when feeding. When this happens, because there is nothing to push forward to help it close your options are to smack, thump, and hit things until it jars it enough to close, or rack that round out onto the ground to clear it then release another shell and pray it goes into battery. I honestly have considered seeking out a higher power spring and opening up the gas ports a bit hoping to increase reliability. My purpose for such a shotgun are purely defensive. I really don't want to be futzing with feed issues on a defensive situation. Making the charging handle reciprocating or adding a forward assist would have gone a long way in relieving that concern. For now I hope it comes out of it as I get more rounds in mine. They say 250 to break it in. I'm somewhere around that mark.

#4 I'm sure this is by design to prevent unintentional mag rotations but I've found the rotation release to be a bit too stiff to reliably release it with the back of my trigger finger. I hope it loosens up because moving to press it with the tip of my trigger finger takes extra time.

So much for not being being the guy who dribbles down his leg over fancy language

I've done a lot of research on these, so far they appear to be a really good shotgun. Post your experience with it, I'm looking into buying one here soon.

For the record, I didn't think you dribbled down your leg.

"I'm not the type of man that dribbles down my leg over fancy language and appearances. Your thread would probably get a little more attention if you weren't speaking as if you're dribbling down your own leg over a shotgun. But I'll go ahead. It's definitely a neat shotgun and as a guy that was working on (ok, dabbling into the realm of possibilities of) multi-tube fed shotgun design ideas before Keltec even dropped the KSG on us, it definitely speaks to me.

My thoughts, it's a short, maneuverable, single-purpose (defensive) shotgun that does offer some great features with only a few problems and drawbacks.

I'm sure you're aware of the many good points so I will point out the bad points.

....."



Thank you. This is solid analysis.

I must be missing something. What about my post was overly fancy?




Am I the only one that thinks "pulse rifle" and "God hammer" make him sound like he's just coming out of mom's basement after a 48 hour binge of Call of Duty and he just found out that guns are real?


Ok then, I'll go back to being an old dude...

This is a tech forum, i'll just keep it tech.

Thank you for the analysis.

Thank you for the very mature and enlightening response. It truly added substance to this post.

You're very welcome, I'm glad you found value in it!

Was just browsing EE, and no snark or sarcasm on my part, OP why are you selling your Tavor shotgun?

I handled one today at the local gun store and it was light and handy, but I ended up not buying since I could see making a reload plan for a 3-gun stage being a confusing nightmare.

I have one.
Shorter than mossberg 590 SBS
Shorter than vepr with folding stock
Holds more than both of those.  16rd vs 10 vs 6 rounds.  Capacity-wise, the tavor is nuts.
Barely any recoil.  I have a slo-mo video of a buddy shooting 00buck out of mine.  The muzzle barely moves.

Cons -
The trigger stinks.  Looking at how its made, they didn't even try to make it a nice triiger.  It works, but I wish it was nicer.  
The m-lok slots are on a plastic forend.  Dunno if it was a fluke or what.  I had my flashlight cranked down and it came loose.  I cranked it down again and will monitor it closer.

Only functional issue I've had from firing was one time the sling prevented a case from being ejected.  Suppose thats not really the gun's fault.  It is kinda-sorta, because the gun is laid out with the sling QD real close to the ejection port.  You have to pay careful attention to your sling position.

I have not experienced any issues with cheap ass 2.5" or 3", birdshot, #4 buck, 00buck, or slugs.  Mine eats anything and everything.  There was no break in period.

That's an interesting turn of events...



FYI, it can be ghost loaded so you get 15 + 2 for a total of 17 rounds.

If you guys are finished, can we talk about an ideal sight for this shotgun?  I am not good at accessories but I really want to get this thing set up.  also need a good sling recommendation.

Got one last summer/fall, Nice balance. Can't wait to shoot it. Put an eotech on it that was lying around for now.

Done what?

Mine is rocking a Holosun 512

That's pretty much my go-to sight for any long gun that doesn't have a drop stock on it. The TS12 receiver is the stock so it's straight and needs the height of a sight that is made to cowitness AR height sights.

I was just about to ask this question, it seems like the consensus is that it's going to take an AR height sight (or riser).  So height-wise, what do you think the lowest you can go and not be uncomfortable getting a good sight picture?  Absolute co?  A bit lower if possible?  I'm kicking around a small Vortex or one of these odd-ish SeeAll sights on a riser.  That being said, I'm just trying to get a feel for what height I really need, I'm really thinking about the See All but am trying to decided on a .5 inch rise, or closer to a full 1 inch?

The HS512C is an absolute cowitness. Depending on your cheekbones and facial geometry you may be able to get away with a little lower, but not a lot. For me the 512 is about perfect, but I tend to have to mount a normal shotgun hard on my cheek to get the proper sight picture.

I have a HOLOSUN 510C on mine as well as Magpul BUIS front and rear. MS4 sling mates to the QD points on the TS12 nicely.

I have 400 rounds through mine and after a few dozen rounds there are no issues. 100% function. I do not use 3" shells so I can not speak for that. 2 3/4" Slug, Buck and Brid above 1200 FPS is what I feed it and it eats it all flawlessly.

I would like to see an aftermarket metal forend made for it (You listening Manticore Arms and Midwest?) Also would like to see aftermarket muzzle devices that do not look like they belong on a King Tiger tank from WWII.