User Panel
Posted: 4/17/2021 8:28:40 AM EDT
Currently trying to figure out a decent set up for around $700 to equip my main night gun with an IR laser, IR illlum, and white light. I currently have a TOR Mini and a Streamlight HL-X, but the last night shoot I went to I realized I was having issues ID'ing targets around 100 yards and really could have used some IR illum.
Ideally, Id like to find an solution that allows me to pair my laser/illum together. I was thinking about the Dbal i2 9007, but Ive read that the illum is a bit anemic. Im no door kicker and would use this for night trainings/shoots, but would like it to be worth the $$. Other option was a standalone IR laser unit + standalone IR illum that could work together on a tapeswitch. With so many options, I figured it would just be best to ask here instead of spending $$ like a drunk sailor trying to figure it all out. |
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I went Holosun LS221, Surefire M640V and a dual lead tapeswitch.
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How about: Keep TOR Mini and pair it with an ELIR-3/SureCloudMod IR on a dual switch, and make the HL-X thumb activated at 9/10/11 o'clock (I assume "righty")? May have to move your sling mount back. Or just run two pads - dual at 12 and white more forward at 10. Just some options to explore - non fully integrated LAM use, takes some McGuyvering.
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Quoted: TOR mini doesn't accept switches. It's actually a pistol ir light that does work well flipped on top of a rifle rail. https://www.steiner-optics.com/sites/default/files/styles/product_detail/public/tor-mini-angle-11.png?itok=CwJWcUgm View Quote Ahhhhh..... Thx |
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Quoted: I went Holosun LS221, Surefire M640V and a dual lead tapeswitch. View Quote One of my rifles has a Perst4 + Modlite 850IR head spliced into a TAPS Sync. It would be beyond OP's budget but operates on the same principle as the above. One note of caution: the 850 is an absolute whale of an illuminator. It throws well beyond 150 yards and the intensity indoors will overwhelm NV when first fired. Great option for outdoor use and punching through dense brush or light pollution, but imo it's too much for indoor use. |
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Quoted: This seems pretty sensible to me. The Holosun bombings laser+illuminator also isn't too far off from OP's budget and intrigues me (I don't have any time behind one). One of my rifles has a Perst4 + Modlite 850IR head spliced into a TAPS Sync. It would be beyond OP's budget but operates on the same principle as the above. One note of caution: the 850 is an absolute whale of an illuminator. It throws well beyond 150 yards and the intensity indoors will overwhelm NV when first fired. Great option for outdoor use and punching through dense brush or light pollution, but imo it's too much for indoor use. View Quote I'm intrigued by the holosun stuff, but part of me is really wanting to keep my purchase made in USA. I might just pinch pennies and watch the EE for a dbal d2. |
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Quoted: I'm intrigued by the holosun stuff, but part of me is really wanting to keep my purchase made in USA. I might just pinch pennies and watch the EE for a dbal d2. View Quote I wouldn’t hold my breath on finding too good of a deal on a D2 in the EE. I see lasers going for pretty much full retail from what I’ve seen. I got my DBAL-i2 from kosher surplus for $719 OTD. I’m seeing them on the EE for $800+. |
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Quoted: Oh I know, but $500 outside my budget. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: DBAL D2 gets you past 500 yards easily. Oh I know, but $500 outside my budget. Then save a little longer and up your budget. Seriously, the jump in performance is well worth the additional $500. |
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Malkoff IR 250 head on a SF Scout, maybe. Don’t get the 700. It overpowers and washes out the TOR beam. It’s probably best for full-power lasers.
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Quoted: Malkoff IR 250 head on a SF Scout, maybe. Don’t get the 700. It overpowers and washes out the TOR beam. It’s probably best for full-power lasers. View Quote I'm probably getting away from the Tor when I add an illuminator bc I don't want to have to activate the Tor and illum separately. |
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Quoted: I'm probably getting away from the Tor when I add an illuminator bc I don't want to have to activate the Tor and illum separately. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Malkoff IR 250 head on a SF Scout, maybe. Don’t get the 700. It overpowers and washes out the TOR beam. It’s probably best for full-power lasers. I'm probably getting away from the Tor when I add an illuminator bc I don't want to have to activate the Tor and illum separately. Same here. I ordered a CQBL-1 last week and should be here tomorrow. I’m not sure but may move the TOR over to my 5.56 pistol since it’s so light and doesn’t require that much rail. ETA: Just to add the capability. |
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Save up the cash or sell an unused rifle sitting in the safe and buy a modlite PLHv2 or an okw and a d2 or mawl.
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Take this for what it is worth but I don’t like the illuminator and laser slaved. I tried it a few times and the smoke produced buy shooting into a heard of pigs blocked my view from the illumination bouncing back at me. It blinded me actually. None were running my way so it wasn’t that big a deal. Missed a few shots but that was all. Now I turn the laser on and illuminate when I start shooting but it is a quick button press to turn it off if needed. I have had to do it a few time since. The ammo was IMI razor core not cheap Tula.
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Quoted: @laxman09 Just arrived. Breaking out the soldering gun and splicing a y-switch together. Using the 90* connector supplied with the CQBL-1 and a SF XT07 switch and connector. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/384478/44D30BD4-A696-47D9-8EF9-B8CC0B3AF2C4-1912241.jpg Did a quick check to make sure it works, now to find my soldering kit and shrink wraps. View Quote In for the results! |
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Quoted: Take this for what it is worth but I don’t like the illuminator and laser slaved. I tried it a few times and the smoke produced buy shooting into a heard of pigs blocked my view from the illumination bouncing back at me. It blinded me actually. None were running my way so it wasn’t that big a deal. Missed a few shots but that was all. Now I turn the laser on and illuminate when I start shooting but it is a quick button press to turn it off if needed. I have had to do it a few time since. The ammo was IMI razor core not cheap Tula. View Quote I like a powerful illuminator like the Luna kept separately as well. |
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Quoted: I wouldn’t hold my breath on finding too good of a deal on a D2 in the EE. I see lasers going for pretty much full retail from what I’ve seen. I got my DBAL-i2 from kosher surplus for $719 OTD. I’m seeing them on the EE for $800+. View Quote Deals happen....I came across and snagged a DBAL A3 for $300 off anywhere else and it was brand new. |
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I'm setting up my "Bump in the Night" rifle and that means white and IR, but I'm also on a budget. How are the M952Vs? I've seen some going for 200ish.
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Quoted: Take this for what it is worth but I don’t like the illuminator and laser slaved. I tried it a few times and the smoke produced buy shooting into a heard of pigs blocked my view from the illumination bouncing back at me. It blinded me actually. None were running my way so it wasn’t that big a deal. Missed a few shots but that was all. Now I turn the laser on and illuminate when I start shooting but it is a quick button press to turn it off if needed. I have had to do it a few time since. The ammo was IMI razor core not cheap Tula. View Quote That's definitely the biggest pro to running a separate high power illuminator like the Lunia IR and a OTAL-C IR. I like it so much I have 2 setups that use separate IR laser and illuminator along with white light all on separate tape switches. |
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Quoted: That's definitely the biggest pro to running a separate high power illuminator like the Lunia IR and a OTAL-C IR. I like it so much I have 2 setups that use separate IR laser and illuminator along with white light all on separate tape switches. View Quote Can the otal and luna run off the same tapeswitch? |
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Quoted: That could very well work, and the Luna one of the best illums out there. Im guessing I could those those both to work with a Unity TAPS. But then thats just more $$ and Im getting dangerously close to D2 territory. I think I just need this patch bc damn if its not true https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61SYTRqjyjL._AC_SX425_.jpg View Quote Luna with an OTAL-C should be considerably cheaper ($899) than a D2 ($1300-1500.) You've ordered from us before, feel free to call, email or PM and I'll try to save you some bucks whichever route you decide to go. And the Luna is going to beat anything out there for IR illumination. |
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Quoted: Luna with an OTAL-C should be considerably cheaper ($899) than a D2 ($1300-1500.) You've ordered from us before, feel free to call, email or PM and I'll try to save you some bucks whichever route you decide to go. And the Luna is going to beat anything out there for IR illumination. View Quote Why you talk dirty to me so good |
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There's a new IR laser illuminator that looks very promising as a companion for the Perst 4...I posted a comparison with the ELIR-3
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/CQBL-1-vs-Perst/18-523747/ "Power: adjustable - low, med, high and turbo. High is 150mw, turbo is 300mw. ELIR-3 max output is 70mw. (Ultra High Power LA-5C = 200mw)" |
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Quoted: There's a new IR laser illuminator that looks very promising as a companion for the Perst 4...I posted a comparison with the ELIR-3 https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/CQBL-1-vs-Perst/18-523747/ "Power: adjustable - low, med, high and turbo. High is 150mw, turbo is 300mw. ELIR-3 max output is 70mw. (Ultra High Power LA-5C = 200mw)" View Quote I actually just saw that! Excellent write up, too. |
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Well was about to pull the trigger on a D2 and then I read about the downrange IR signature thread and pics from JW and now Im back to square one.
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Quoted: Well was about to pull the trigger on a D2 and then I read about the downrange IR signature thread and pics from JW and now Im back to square one. View Quote I was in the same boat, and I eventually decided that the DBAL A3 is the way to go for budget-minded civvie lasers -- the illuminator isn't amazing, but it's good enough if you have decent tubes and don't need to light things up really far away. Given that I really only use the illuminator inside, I figured it was probably fine. |
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Quoted: I was in the same boat, and I eventually decided that the DBAL A3 is the way to go for budget-minded civvie lasers -- the illuminator isn't amazing, but it's good enough if you have decent tubes and don't need to light things up really far away. Given that I really only use the illuminator inside, I figured it was probably fine. View Quote Id just get the i2 9007 if I was going to go A3 as I have no need for the vis laser. Steiner just needs to make the 9007 illum better and it would sell big time. |
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Quoted: Id just get the i2 9007 if I was going to go A3 as I have no need for the vis laser. Steiner just needs to make the 9007 illum better and it would sell big time. View Quote Call me spoiled, but I can't stand not having a visible laser slaved to the IR laser, it makes life so much easier when zeroing etc. I also would rather have the A3's focusable laser illuminator than the I2's LED so I don't have any red glow out the front. |
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Quoted: Call me spoiled, but I can't stand not having a visible laser slaved to the IR laser, it makes life so much easier when zeroing etc. I also would rather have the A3's focusable laser illuminator than the I2's LED so I don't have any red glow out the front. View Quote The i2 and A3 have the same illum |
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Quoted: Well was about to pull the trigger on a D2 and then I read about the downrange IR signature thread and pics from JW and now Im back to square one. View Quote The IR signature is only visible at very small angle and only to @ 100 yards looking directly at the front of the LAM. If you've seen JW's vid there are other laser based illuminators with the some signature as well. If your goal is go no light then passive aiming maybe your best option. IMHO most new users overthink it and are trying to cure a problem that is not a big issue. With any light white or IR light discipline is always paramount. SureFire vampires such as the M952V has had great success over seas even though it also has a slight pinkish from it's IR LED based illuminator. |
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Quoted: The IR signature is only visible at very small angle and only to @ 100 yards looking directly at the front of the LAM. If you've seen JW's vid there are other laser based illuminators with the some signature as well. If your goal is go no light then passive aiming maybe your best option. IMHO most new users overthink it and are trying to cure a problem that is not a big issue. With any light white or IR light discipline is always paramount. SureFire vampires such as the M952V has had great success over seas even though it also has a slight pinkish from it's IR LED based illuminator. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: The IR signature is only visible at very small angle and only to @ 100 yards looking directly at the front of the LAM. If you've seen JW's vid there are other laser based illuminators with the some signature as well. If your goal is go no light then passive aiming maybe your best option. IMHO most new users overthink it and are trying to cure a problem that is not a big issue. With any light white or IR light discipline is always paramount. SureFire vampires such as the M952V has had great success over seas even though it also has a slight pinkish from it's IR LED based illuminator. Youre right, but for a different reason. I was doing a deep dive in the NV archive posts today and was reading a discussion where Augee made a really great point, which Ill quote If you're hunting and/or just target shooting or training with civilian owned stuff: - DBAL-D2 probably is the best value package however it comes with the penalty of weight, bulk, terrible ergonomics, and IMHO most importantly, a not insignificant downrange visible signature to the naked eye. Just not really going to convince me that's not important if you're talking about a situation where rounds may be coming back. If you're wanting an IR laser for "tactical" purposes, whether you're a civilian enthusiast or LEO who has to buy their own gear and can't get a restricted power unit: - ATPIAL-C "But waaaaaahhh, the illuminator's only good for 75 yards!" Got it. What's the scenario in which you as an armed civilian or law enforcement officer are going to justifiably drop someone at 75+ yards under NODs that's not an "end of the world" doomsday scenario? Hell, even if it is? Again, night vision is about movement and maneuver first and foremost--if you can't get out of a fight and they can't see you yet, maneuver closer. The point of an IR laser is not to pick guys off from standoff--it's to close with and destroy. Not saying you can't do it--just that you need to consider whether or not you should. Do Class I laser illuminators have their limitations? Abso-fucking-lutely, and I would think very hard about having some other means to pump additional illumination into the situation, potentially including an IR LED with visible downrange signature when it is tactically appropriate. But the difference between a DBAL-D2 and an ATPIAL-C and Surefire Vampire is that with the latter, I have a choice to make the conscious decision to produce a downrange signature if I need more IR illum. The DBAL-D2 doesn't give you that choice. So being honest with myself, Im not kicking down doors or am I going to war. Im also not made of $$. Im coming around to thinking that the i2 might be the best for me now and that I can always add LED based illum later to supplement if I need it. This would give me the option of not having a downrange signature. So yeah, over thinking for sure. Because why under think? What fun would that be! |
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Quoted: Youre right, but for a different reason. I was doing a deep dive in the NV archive posts today and was reading a discussion where Augee made a really great point, which Ill quote So being honest with myself, Im not kicking down doors or am I going to war. Im also not made of $$. Im coming around to thinking that the i2 might be the best for me now and that I can always add LED based illum later to supplement if I need it. This would give me the option of not having a downrange signature. So yeah, over thinking for sure. Because why under think? What fun would that be! View Quote No doubt. A good way to avoid seeing a signature inside of structures/rooms is to illuminated the floor or celling with your illuminator. The time it takes someone to think "Hey wha" immediately followed by the last thing they hear "THWACK" makes the pinkish glow a non issue. |
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Quoted: No doubt. A good way to avoid seeing a signature inside of structures/rooms is to illuminated the floor or celling with your illuminator. The time it takes someone to think "Hey wha" immediately followed by the last thing they hear "THWACK" makes the pinkish glow a non issue. View Quote I do have helmet mounted IR lights (wml ir and mlps it) for umbrella lighting. All this reading has really lead me to see how having multiple solutions available is more ideal than hamstringing myself with one solution. While I've thoroughly enjoyed building guns, I think putting together my NV gear and getting actual experience using it has been more fun and educational. |
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Well ordered a dbal i2 9007. Won't ship until July
Going to pair it with a Arisaka EXIR 250 on a Taps sync switch. Close range laser based illum + longer range LED based illum. |
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I'm probably late to the party, but I use a DBAL-A3 and a surefire scout paired with a TAPS sync. I like my visual override feature so that is what the TAPS is for. I only use the A3's push button for IR. I don't use the on board laser or illuminator as much as I thought I would.
Once you have thermals, shooting with IR becomes more of a backup option. The IR illuminator is fine on the A3 out to 100 yards which is about as far as I am willing to shoot with helmet nods. Unless you are using a magnified nightvision optic the utility of a high power illuminator is not worth the squeeze. I do have a torch pro with a surefire dual cap so I can just quick connect the DBAL to the rail, switch the TAPS plugs around, and now I have high power illum, but again, it is just extra weight for a feature that I consider secondary. This is just my opinion and I am sure others would disagree. |
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Quoted: Well ordered a dbal i2 9007. Won't ship until July Going to pair it with a Arisaka EXIR 250 on a Taps sync switch. Close range laser based illum + longer range LED based illum. View Quote One thing that is a huge consideration for a powerful illuminator is it's not only for distance, but for blowing across a white light lit street, looking under/inside of cars, under decks, into building windows etc, which the 9007, APTIAL-C, A3 etc will literally fall flat on it's face. A strong illuminator can do everything a anemic one can but a weak one can't even come close. |
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