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Posted: 4/19/2022 1:38:25 PM EDT
BLUF:  I have a "State National" (a type of Sovereign Citizen?") coming to collect a transferred firearm.  I will report back on this, as I think it an interesting topic.

I had a person call me about doing a transfer.  Okay, not exactly newsworthy event; however....

... he wants me to transfer it to him with his "new" "immigration status."

Quoting him from a text I received:  "The problem I have is my immigration status changed from a U.S. citizen to a 'State National.' I have a passport. Can you help me?"

I reply that I have never heard of a "State National."

So I asked him which category he falls into vis-a-vis immigration status:

US Citizen?  No.
Lawful Permanent Resident (i.e., a "green card" holder)?  No.
A non-immigrant visa? No.

I explained he has to choose one of these three in order to purchase a firearm from a person licensed as a Dealer in Firearms Other Than Destructive Devices.

He claims he is none of those, and shows me his US Passport, which is stamped in red (because all important shit in a passport is red) with this:  
"American State National.
Do not detain. Do not interrogate.
50 State Concealed Carry."
 [Bold emphasis is mine]

I replied, he has to pick one in order to undergo the NICS check.  Nope, as a "State National" he isn't subject to those laws.

I looked it up and found there is an official US Department of State webpage Certificates of Non Citizen Nationality.  Suffice to say I don't think he is eligible.

Bottom line:  It appears he is some kind of Sovereign Citizen.

If he can't resolve the immigration matter into one of the three categories the fed.gov recognizes, he ain't getting the gun.

Link Posted: 4/19/2022 4:20:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 4/19/2022 5:08:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Sovereign Nutjob.

I would tell him to fuck off.

Providing altered government documents (the red stamped stuff on his passport) is a federal crime.
Completing and signing the Form 4473 with false information is a federal crime.

You don't want any part of this.

Link Posted: 4/19/2022 5:15:57 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
IN!

Who placed the stamp in his passport?

View Quote


Holy Jesus people.  I may never again castigate a cop for tuning a sovereign citizen up.

He and his spouse said the Passport Office located in Washington, DC did.  Color me dubious, unless it was done to get them out of the passport office.

Among the claims made:  

The government made me* (*'individual soul' me as opposed to legal personhood me ) a "corporation" by using all caps in the name line on my birth certificate.  That was necessary because the USG is a corporation, a bankrupt one at that.  I hate to break the news to them, but I checked by Birth Certificate - my name is in Initial Cap/lower case.  

Another is that as a US citizen I have no "rights" natural or otherwise, only "privileges and immunities" conferred by the 14th Amendment. I guess that is because the 14th Amendment states in part "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;..." I observe that is does not say I have no natural individual rights or that those rights have been abridged by the Constititution.

Then there is the "missing 13th amendment" which prevented lawyers from serving in government. Frankly, that might not be a bad thing, IMO.  This was because they take an oath before the BAR Association, which is itself a organization granting titles conferring titles of nobility (i.e., Esquire).  Read about the missing 13th Amendment HERE..  The BAR in BAR association is the British Accredited Registry. The belief is that all attorneys who are members of the bar association are actually secret agents of the British crown.

There is a lot of hands waving stuff I'll not bore you with, but in general, if ever given the chance to listen to a person who holds these beliefs , given them an hour of your time.  Its cheap entertainment.

Bottom line, they could not explain how I enter the information they want entered into Virginia's background check system, when it is a pick list consisting of US Citizen, Lawful Permanent Resident, and Aliens in the US under a Non-Immigrant Visa (from Q21.1 on the current 4473).  So, I'm not doing the transfer for them.



Link Posted: 4/19/2022 8:03:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There is a lot of hands waving stuff I'll not bore you with, but in general, if ever given the chance to listen to a person who holds these beliefs , given them an hour of your time.  Its cheap entertainment.
View Quote

Only if I can do something useful during that hour, otherwise no thank you, my time is more valuable than that.

Also doesn't VA require two forms of ID or did that go away?
Link Posted: 4/21/2022 6:44:35 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 4/21/2022 6:47:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 4/21/2022 8:04:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Yeah good thing you didn’t do the transfer.  The sovereign nation folks think they can live here free with the benefits of citizenship and THEIR version of the law.

Look up sovereign citizen on YouTube.  Cops handle them probably more often than necessary.
Link Posted: 4/22/2022 5:24:08 PM EDT
[#8]
tell us about your current inventory. Can we bid on it now or do we have to wait till after it is seized?

Seriously Tom is right you do not want any part of this. Nothing good will come from it. If his US Passport actually says those things, it was fraudently modified.

Going any further with guy will only have him turn on you.
Link Posted: 4/22/2022 6:37:17 PM EDT
[#9]
If he is all that important, he should ask whoever put all that stuff in red ink on his passport to issue him a firearm.  

I would politely tell him something like "geez I don't understand what all that red on your passport means, but I suspect that whoever stamped it on your passport can help you acquire the firearm you desire.  That red printing on your passport is WAAAAYYY above my pay grade and I don't want to loose my license by getting between BATFE and your agency/state/country, so I have to refer you back to your agency/country/authorizing supervisor in order to get your firearm."
Link Posted: 4/22/2022 7:04:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Idiocracy: Your Shit's All Retarded (long version)





Link Posted: 4/23/2022 10:32:56 AM EDT
[#11]
Make sure you have a large American flag with gold fringe on the wall behind the counter. It may discourage the sovereigns from shopping.
Link Posted: 4/25/2022 11:46:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Had a individual come in wanting to buy a handgun and needed clarification on her citizenship. Hadn't renounced but was in the process of sovereign blah blah blah.. We said we didn't even want to deal with it. Sorry..
Link Posted: 4/26/2022 9:08:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Pass. Refer him to make his own via 80% or buy via private sale. Why wouldn't his type already be doing that?
Link Posted: 4/27/2022 9:22:18 PM EDT
[#14]
2-3 years ago the local FBI agent stopped in our shop to inform us about these types of folks. Never had one here in real life...yet.
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