Just got it set up!

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Will be going through the calibration and throwing process in depth over the coming weeks to provide feedback on final production versions!

Out of respect for Adam and the development process I won't share too many details if they are not public knowledge (not that I have any/many), but I'll share my overall thoughts and impressions here as I have them.

I can already tell a TON of thought went into the design of this unit.

More to come!

*DISCLAIMER: I purchased this unit for full MSRP; I did not receive a discount on this unit, and I've not been asked to provide any "public" feedback for testing purposes or as a condition to get this unit. Therefore, the thoughts in this thread are my own and my own only, and may not reflect the feelings or position of Adam. I'm simply an avid reloader who wants to share his thoughts/feelings on a new toy; we all love new toys.

I’m jealous.  I’m also more than a little bit broke, so just thinking about buying that scale used up my “fun money” for the week.  

In for your experience…

Can I get an Amen!?

So far, so good.

I have about 200 charges dumped with this thing, and I'm getting a pretty decent feel for it.

For comparison purposes, I'll post up an old, crappy video of my ATV3 w/ 800-X powder. For anyone unfamiliar, 800-X is quite possibly the least reliably metered powder there is, as it meters like corn flakes.

Here is a picture of 800-X next to True Blue, which meters like water:

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Here is the ATV3 w/ 800-X powder:



Sorry for the vertical video...it's the best orientation for these things.

As you can see, it does a really good job, but you'll also notice on the second charge, it skips.  The reason for this is the flakes are so big, that sometimes the internal wiper (built into only Lee and Autotrickler powder measures) doesn't wipe the powder out of the way and it chops powder "kernels" in half, or tries to.  This causes skipping.  This is fairly well documented in happening with VERY large flake powders, and very large stick/extruded powders, like 800-X or N570.

For reference, here is a picture of N570.  It's hard to appreciate the size of the sticks in this photo:

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The two main reasons I wanted to upgrade to the ATV4 were:

• Less adjustments and "changeover time" - Only having one hopper, and not having to adjust the initial charge weight meant less adjustments and easier changeovers since there is only one hopper to empty/clean out, and the removeable windows make cleaning the unit out a piece of cake.


• No more skipping/cutting powder - since the unit doesn't utilize a wiper or volumetric "unit charge" like most other powder measures use.

Here is the ATV4 dropping five 8.0gr charges of 800-X, which happens to be exactly what I'll use in 10mm:



Video is still uploading, but should be available soon...

I'm considering an auto trickler now, new toys liven up my hobby

FWIW here's their webpage https://autotrickler.com/pages/autotrickler-v4

Currently it is $490. Shipping makes it just over $500.

That excludes the scale. CE Products sells the scale for ~$500, or you can get the full combo here for $1,005 shipped.

pre-order price is $490

Also, I plan on doing extensive testing with my powders but if anyone has any questions or wants to see something, fire away.

Powders I have:

HP-38
800-X
CFE223
CFE BLK
H110
SBR-SOCOM
N110
N120

That's all for now...component shortage and everything. I can also ask a few buddies what they have if anyone is curious about a different powder.

I had put myself down for the pre order but I haven't gone ahead and paid for it yet.

I will now go ahead with the order.
Are you using a tablet or smartphone with it or just as we see it?

You have to use a smart device with it.

I'm testing both the iOS app (on a 10" iPad Pro) as well as the Android App (on a Galaxy Note20).

You need a device running low-power Bluetooth (most devices made in the last 5 years), and running Android or iOS.

Subscribed.

I already have the Fx120i.

How does the trickeler integrate into the scale?

The back of your 120i had a serial (DB9) port.

The ATV4 unit has a serial connector that simply plugs in.

Then there are some menu settings that are in the A&D firmware that you need to tweak, like update speed, etc.

I'll take pics this afternoon to share with all.

I'm on the wait list, and THINK I've signed up for the combo (it's confusing, so I'm not sure).  

Not going to lie, $1k is a decadance expense for a powder dispenser.  So obviously this isn't realistic for everyone. But reloading and shooting is something I personally do heavy.  The ability to dispense to 0.01 gr resolution and at a decent rate, is something I decided to give a shot.  

If it doesn't work out, I'm sure I can sell it.

The combo is only available on the CE Products website.

CE Products syncs their reservations/wait list with Adam so there is no benefit or penalty reserving from either place.

Depending on when you put in the reservation it's likely to ship in 2022.

It will be worth the wait.

I dropped around 200-250 charges yesterday with H110 and 800-X, but which are opposite ends of the powder consistency spectrum.

Also experimenting with software settings and tilt and it's impact on speed and accuracy, but it's already really good. I'll be sharing my feedback to Adam on a continual basis over the next few weeks. But no major issues or concerns from my end after a heavy night of testing. In fact I think it is a significant and worthwhile upgrade over V3, at least to what I'm looking for in a trickler.

Just to point out. The resolution of a scale is one thing, the uncertainty is another, but in either case the A&D FX-120i specs are 122g @ 0.001g

And 0.001g is the same as saying a milligram, which is 0.0154 grains. When you run the scale in grams, the screen shows the milligram but when you run in grains, it will round to 0.02 grains, not 0.01.

Just so you know what to expect.

That said, you won't be disappointed if you have experience with units like the Prometheus or the ChargeMaster, etc. For the money, this system is great.

Thank you! Hoping xmas might bring me a new toy.

Yep, looks like you're right and I did it via CE Products website, just found my confirmation

Order #xxxxxx
August 25, 2021

ProductSKUPriceQuantityTotal
Deposit for AutoTrickler V4 + A&D FX-120i
Fulfilled Aug 25
V4 Combo$50.001$50.00
Subtotal$50.00
Shipping (V4 Autotrickler & FX-120i Pre order)$0.00
Total$50.00 USD
Billing Address
Payment Status: Paid

Man, I will say - it was a curious website, because they announce on the website whle you there, with a pop-up, whenever someone placed an order.  So the day that email came out to do your $50 down payment, I went and was getting a pop-up every minute or so, of an order going in.  I think it showed the name of the buyer even - it was a little odd!  A good day for CE, because the $50 downpayment money was pouring in like water.

But yea, the wait list for these is not short.   Also, I looked into buying the scale independantly.  I very quickly realized those are $750 scales.   buying it as a combo package from CE is the only way to do this, otherwise this can easilly be a $1300 purchase before you know it.

The scale is sold separately for $470.

I figured I'd take this time to show some more pics and explain the unit in a bit more detail.  If anyone was part of Adam's livestream a few months ago, this might be duplicative.

First, a close up of the top isometric view:

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A few things to point out here.  You can see that the top lid is now clear (a welcomed bonus!) - anyone that is familiar with the V3 will know this was an aftermarket upgrade available from Area 419.

You'll also see the large tube running the length of the unit fore/aft.  You can also see the fluting inside the tube which serves a very important purpose. It helps calibrate the unit and keep it consistent. It also allows for the unit to reverse at the end of the "large" drop to pull powder away from the edge, preventing accidental powder drop.

You can also see the smaller tube below. This also runs the full length fore/aft.

The left motor controls the large tube, the right motor controls the smaller tube.

The acrylic window in the front is removeable. This aids in cleaning it out.  You'll also notice the connector behind the left motor.  That allows quick disconnecting of the unit from the scale, for easier dumping of powder.

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This is what the powder hopper inlet looks like with the hopper removed  The opening is a unique shape, which aids in indexing the hopper into place (notice the chamfered edge).  The channel that comes in from the left is for the powder hopper locking mechanism.

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The hopper has a key that fits into this channel, and locks the hopper into place on the unit.  It has the added benefit of being the open/close valve for the hopper, so when you want to pull it off, turn it counterclockwise 45 degrees, it closes the hopper and simultaneously unlocks it for removal.

One caveat here is that while most of the powder is secured in the hopper, there is a small "funnel" where powder can get stuck.  Most of this simply falls into the opening in the unit (as you can see above) but some very fine or very coarse powders may get stuck here, like the 800-X you see in the picture.

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The acrylic panels lift up as I mentioned earlier.  This, coupled with the "V" shape of the machined opening, allows you to "peek" the door open and allow for a very small/controlled emptying of the unit into even a small container opening (such as VV containers). The acrylic panels fit fairly snugly, but super fine powders such as H110 will still creep in between the panel and the front face of the machined aluminum.

Side note: originally, the logo was in the center of the acrylic window, but I suggested in the livestream to move it so it wouldn't obstruct the view of the powder flowing from the tubes; this was incorporated into the semi-final design.

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The back of the unit also has this same acrylic window.  It also can be raised to clean the unit out if you should choose to do it out of the back.  Notice the "leg" that sticks out of the back of the hopper.  This is designed to hold the panel in place and acts as a positive stop to accidental lifting of the rear window when a hopper is in place.  In theory it works okay, but smaller powders have enough play to sneak through. Ideally this leg would sit a little lower, but due to the FDM process, it would add a lot of complexity and increase post processing time, so I understand why it was omitted.

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Here is a terrible view of the DB9 (Serial Port) connector that connects the electronics of the Autotrickler to the scale electronics.  The connector has two captured screws that lightly hold it in place.

Side note: this was another idea I had in the livestream; I chatted with Adam about this after the fact some as well in email and he sent me some of his designs, which was super cool to be a part of.

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This is one of the coolest features yet.  When the target weight has been reached, a green LED lights up the pan area.  It's hard to capture on screen, but suffice to say it's neat.  It would be super cool if it lit up red if it overshot the target by >0.02gr, but it doesn't.

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The unit actually sits on three rubber pads.  The rear pad indexes into a recess in the rear of the unit, and there are legs machined into the motor mounts that rest on the front pads.  There are index marks on the acrylic panel that show where these rubber pads go should they fall off or otherwise need replaced. Emptying powder is as simple as removing hopper, disconnecting the wires, and lifting the unit straight up.  Much less of a wire mess than with V3!

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Clearance for the cup is admittedly...tight.

It's going to take some getting used to as I had plenty of clearance on the V3, and I keep clipping the drop funnel.  I'd assume this is to minimize powder splash (which was infrequent, but possible on the V3).

ETA: Adam is going to decrease the drop funnel height to allow for more clearance!

Let me know if you want to see anything else or have any questions!

How “hefty” is the 3D printed hopper base?  It looks substantial, maybe to dampen out any vibration from the motors?  I hope they clean up the final printed part, because the rough surface looks like it’ll collect dust, graphite and such.

The hopper itself is rather porky, indeed.  I'd assume that is to help it stay steady (since it is only keyed/secured with a single pin) but I'd think he could lighten it a bit without much issue; the motors don't provide any real vibration to speak of (for instance, the scale, while extremely sensitive, is not bothered by the motors turning).

I noticed that too about how rough the FDM work is.  My ATV3 is MUCH cleaner looking.  I'm going to provide that feedback, but I assume it's because this is a beta unit that he tried to get out the door on quick timing.

Time will tell if it bothers the function of the unit, but I doubt it will. A little graphite can't do anything but smoothen the action some.

I’d have a problem with an expensive tool I couldn’t keep clean on the outside, and that’s where I really noticed the roughness in your pictures.  It’s not just aesthetics.  Dirty parts are harder to handle safely, and the dirt can hide contaminants.

This is coming from my QC background, so take it with a grain of salt.  

I can understand that POV. The underside of the hopper is certainly rough. I'll check out the inside the best I can and see. The inside of the hopper (the bottom funnel part) is very smooth, I know that much.

Does it work with the tablet they sell as part of their Shot Marker system?

Yes it does. In fact that tablet comes with the Autotrickler app preinstalled.

I had the v2 and upgraded to the v3. What does v4 give you over the v3 upgrades?

ETA: I added the Area 419 clear top and metal cup. The gray lid and cheesy plastic cup that came with the v2 and v3 weren’t very helpful as you couldn’t see from the top and the lightweight cup seemed to allow for the powder to splash as well as being easy to bump around.

V4 gives you a more seamless process. One hopper vs two, less wires, and a quicker changeover and initial setup. There is no autothrow adjustment needed. Just run a calibration (~1 min) each time you change powders and you're set. It also stores calibration in memory so no need to recalibrate if you're not changing powders.

It also works with larger charge weights that are beyond a single large charge on the V3 Autothrow. This is minor since the Autothrow could be setup to throw twice from what I remember.

Lastly you have the ability to dispense without jamming the Autothrow or cutting powder. Based on conversations I've had that was limited to only a couple powders that are exceptionally large.

The V3 has a glass cup with an FDM handle. It weighs over 800 grains. Not sure if the early V3s had plastic or not but my V3 and V4 both came with the same glass cup.

To me it is worth the upgrade. To be frank, you can likely sell your V3 for $490 (some people don't want to wait six months for a V4), and then wait for the V4 to come in. If you can wait the time to get the V4 in the interim, you can essentially upgrade for free.

Very good highlights and comments. I agree.

The highlights for V3 versus V4, no adjusting the thimble for the initial drop. No rotating or sliding interface that might jam or cut a powder kernel.

I'm going to keep them both for now, and will give an opinion on accuracy and speed down the road, but Obsessed is doing a great job and by then I probably won't have to say a word.

The move to a single hopper and elimination of the standalone trickler is a nice upgrade.

Might have to look them up in 6-12 months when they get caught up on new orders to see if a V3 -> V4 upgrade kit becomes available. I wouldn't want to sell off my V3 now and be without it for the next 6mos while waiting in line.

Thanks for the reply and I look forward to any other info you can provide.

ETA: Could you see how it performs with flake powders? Some of those have caused me grief in manual powder throwers, and I've actually never tried any in my V3, but if they've sorted out the long grain stick powders I wonder if they tested it on flake powders as well.

Thanks

There will be no upgrade kits from V3 to V4. That is because literally NOTHING is the same. It's entirely new, unlike the days of old where some parts are carryover.  This is a ground up redesign.

I have a video posted above of both the V3 and the V4 handling the toughest flake powder there is, 800-X.  Sadly, it's so tricky to work with it has been discontinued, but I still have some on hand for now.  I also have a picture above that shows what 800-X looks like, so you can see it is an extremely large flake powder.

Had my first discussion with Adam yesterday.  Told him about some of the suggested tweaks and considerations.

One thing to note is the powder funnel drop.  I told him it's pretty tight clearance between the bottom of the funnel and the top of the cup, and he agreed that it should be shorter, and is going to make that adjustment in the final version.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my JV-level questions and comments.

Been accessing this thread from a phone and pics weren't showing, but opening on a desktop this morning I see what 800-X looks like and holy hell, if it feeds that it should feed anything.

Same same for their being no V3 -> V4 upgrade package. I hadn't seen the videos or pics, but it's now clear this is a ground up redesign.

Looks like Adam is continuing to innovate and put out a tremendous product. I wish him and the other vendors well, but don't think I'll be jumping in line for a V4 yet.

Thank you again for taking the time to put your pics and observations in a thread for the rest of us.

Loaded 200 rounds of Nuclear 10mm loads last night.  Worked flawlessly, except one minor caveat.

The calibration of 800-X times out. The powder flows so slowly through the large tube, that it times out before it fully calibrates.

Adam was sent a video tonight of the behavior, and no doubts it will be sorted out.  To be fair, it's probably the only powder in the world that would have this happen.

In practice, it doesn't bother me. You just rezero it and hit calibrate again and the second time it works fine (since the tubes are primed at that point).

All in all, a very minor hiccup, and frankly, if it was never addressed, it wouldn't phase me in the least, but I can understand how someone could be perturbed by it.

Also, I mentioned earlier that the rear acrylic window can be lifted a bit when the hopper is in place.  That is being addressed in the final version as well.

My only concern so far is the finish on the 3D printed parts.
Can you ask if any of this will be cleaned up in the final production units?

I did.  He said he isn't concerned about it as over time the parts will "season" more or less (paraphrasing).

I personally don't think it will impact the performance of the unit. I haven't had any issues even with it not being seasoned, but I suppose only time will tell.

About 700-800 rounds in, one week after getting it.

I'm sure they tolerate the ugly 3D printing finish to keep costs down and enable mass (kind of) production.

The shotmarker hardware is the same way. I think it's fine. It's a tool, not a fashion accessory.

He's got no competition and there's a wait list for a product that works exceptionally well. Making the plastic parts pretty probably isn't a priority.

Someone'll be along shortly to CNC machine pretty replacements out of 6061 aluminum and sell them at a premium.

I asked about additional powder hoppers.

They will be available for sale for $20/each. I personally feel this is too cheap. it takes forever to print one of these things and the design is really something. The acrylic is also extremely hardy. I'd think $25/each is more reasonable but it isn't my business.

That said I'll be sure to snag a few.

Not many updates to share, because frankly, this thing is as perfect as I can possibly imagine.

I'm currently testing a slightly different app on one of my phones, and I'm not sure how I feel about it just yet.  More testing to be done.

In this case, no bad news is the same as good news....

Yep, exactly.

Something I'll note, is if anyone is interested in getting the V4, and has the V3, now is the time to unload the V3.  Get on the waitlist, and sell the V3 now. There are people that do not want to wait around for the V4 (wait list is likely 4-6 months), and the V3 is now sold out, so used is the only way for someone to get their hands on one.

Makes for a good used market if you can float for a few months without an Autotrickler on the bench.

Also, speaking of bench, I've found that making a floating shelf above the bench works wonders if you reload while waiting for the next charge to be measured out.  The FX-120i is sensitive so even the slate tiles I had them sitting on didn't provide enough dampening from the press vibrations.

Now it is completely isolated.

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@-Obsessed-

Do you know if the powder hopper from the V4 is the same as the V3?

I ask because I got the Area 419 upgrade kit for my V3, including the larger hopper, and am now re-thinking the idea of selling off my V3 and getting on the waitlist for the V4.

If the hoppers are the same I'll keep the Area 419 one, but if they're different then I'd obviously want to offload that in the V3 sale.

ETA: went back and reviewed your pic heavy post and the hoppers appear to be different from the hexagonal direct plug design used by the V3 and Area 419 hoppers.  

Also, is the V4 drop funnel centered in the top cover? Wanting to keep my Area 419 self-centering tray and metal cup as they make placing it directly under the V3 a breeze and for the same reason as the hopper, if they aren't going to be compatible I'd offload them with the V3. Along that, could you get a measurement on the V4 glass cup's height? Want to see if I'd be able to use the metal cup and tray with a V4.

Here's the Area 419 V3 upgrade kit that might help answer the question if I'm not making sense. https://www.area419.com/product/area-419-complete-v3-kit/

Thanks

ETA: you've got me this close to getting on the V4 waitlist and offloading the V3 with some of the Area 419 upgraded parts...

You are correct, hoppers are completely different.

The V4 drop funnel is NOT centered on the platform. It is forward of the center.  The back edge of the guide is about 2mm forward of the centerline. Pic:

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The V4s guide is self-centering, in the sense that the cup is always placed in the proper place under the funnel. An added benefit of it being moved forward is it is easier to get the cup in/out of the scale, since it's not centered on the weighing platform.

My recommendation would be to sell your 419 accessories, including cup/tray with the V3 and stick to the V4 hardware as-is.

The cup is roughly 2.07" tall.

I can't really say how much clearance you'll have in the final design.  The drop funnel is being shortened in the final version as the clearance on the beta units is a little too tight. I'd say it's less than 1mm currently:

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Separately, I've sketched up and printed a little set of panels (both over the weighing platform, and to replace the three clear windows) in order to better see the green light. The green light indicates a "good" charge weight has been dispensed (aka, it is finished dispensing, without going over)...this green light was not super conspicuous with the stainless platform and clear windows.  Swapping it all to white has made it very noticeable, moreso than the pictures suggest:

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Thanks much. I'll just include the V3 upgrade bits if I decide to sell in the next week or so.

Hell, might be a better move to just sell with the scale as well and get on CE's waitlist for the entire V4 package...

@-Obsessed-

You pushed me over the edge with that last set of pics

Posted up my complete V3 kit in the EE and put down the $50 deposit with CE for a new A&D scale and V4 setup.

Will load some more 338LM before it goes to a new home so I'll be held over until next Spring when (hopefully) the V4 arrives.

Thanks again for the time and photos.

Awesome! You'll be super happy with it!

In the mean time let me know if you have any questions or want any different pics.

I took the plunge.
Now it’s hurry up and wait.

It will be worth the wait. Especially if you do a lot of changeovers, or deal with pesky powders that the Autothrow didn't like.

The main reasons I first bought an AT (V3) was two fold. Loading Nuclear 10mm accurately (I'm at the very edge of what some would consider the true max), and secondly, I do a BUNCH of experimentation, and a bunch of ladders.

I wanted something that was easy to work ladders up on. Guess and checking a typical powder measure with a balance took forever. This, to get the next rung on the ladder, I literally press a single button.

I'm probably an atypical case. I do no long range precision shooting yet I find a ton of utility in having one of these things.

My reloading mantra is perhaps eccentric, I dunno. Ultimately reloading is a hobby that I enjoy just as much as shooting. Yet some tasks I do not enjoy in the process. I deal with them out of necessity in order to enjoy the reloading hobby as a whole, but as funds allow, I buy tools that alleviate those pain points, whether someone may agree it's necessary for me, is irrelevant. I used to hate working up ladders. Now it's actually enjoyable. Seeing a device that works as simply (on its face anyway, really it's a mini marvel under the hood), and also so exquisitely, is really something you simply have to appreciate.

But who knows...maybe I'm just a geek.

I do hope they honor the original price estimate.  I'm early enough, that late 2021 might be possible... maybe.  And I figured heck, anything you can buy with 2021(+) dollars, that was still 2020(-) priced, you probably should!

Surprisingly the dollar has strengthened relative to the CAD so Adam is actually doing good from an Fx exposure POV. It's up nearly 4% P12M. No idea what inflation was in the great white north but he's certainly catching some tailwind help there regardless.