List what NV device, specifics if you have them, and how often you notice it.  No aids like thermal or illumination.
Lots of talk about tube performance but real world comes down to impacting your usage.   In my case it is pig hunting mostly.  It seems My effectiveness is impeded about 1/3 of the time.  This is rural hunting, no illumination and open areas in excess of 500 yards.  I consider it a problem if I can’t ID a pig vs cow at 250 yards.

Pvs-15, not sure about tubes but I know they aren’t matched, bought used, 1/3 I notice I could use more ambient light.  15-30 nights a year I hunt.
PVS7, D tube, maybe 40% of the time.
M-845. Gen 2+. About 50%. When it’s good it’s good but when it’s a problem visual range is useless past 150 yards.

Sub-urban hunting a woodline. PVS14.

The one successful hog hunt I had, my partner had thermal and he could make out as many as 8 targets inside the treeline. I had to wait for them to come out into the open before I could see anything. But once out in the open it was fair game.

Using IR made no difference; it could barely penetrate the woods. It mostly just casted shadows.

Other hunting I have done (coyote) was out in a field and that had no impact in being able to spot targets with enough ambient light from light pollution.

I haven't tried passively aiming on animals yet. I hunt hogs 3 or more nights a week using a pvs-14 thin filmed wp. I'm using an it laser / illuminator but I find myself lately just using the laser. I'm running a modlight for the illuminator and it's nice to ID things at farther distances. I suppose I could start trying to aim passively, however I'm having great results with the current setup. 50% of shots are 30-75yds under tree cover the rest is open pasture out to 200.

The bottom line is, you don't know the answer to this question unless you are hunting with thermal and start seeing animals that you can't see with your NODS - which will be many.

What BrandonP said...

I have hunted pigs with 27SNR thin filmed PVS-14, 27SNR thin filmed BNVD and 32SNR unfilmed DTNVS.  The unfilmed work much better under south Alabama tree canopy, but they are still incredibly limited at detection when compared to thermal.  To the OP's question, with the thin filmed tubes I have to use supplemental IR about 1/3 of the time.  The unfilmed performs significantly better, but it is still range limited.  A COTI and/or a good hand scanner make a huge difference.  Even with unfilmed tubes, a COTI more than doubles my detection ranges, and that range is generally limited by terrain and obstructions, not thermal device performance.  With the COTI I can detect heat signatures way farther out, verify animal type with the hand scanner, and generally move into shot position without using supplemental IR with the DTNVS.  If I'm using thin filmed tubes and there's no moon or heavy cloud cover, even to navigate in the bottoms I occasionally have to use IR light.

FWIW.

+1

I often hunt on a trophy ranch that has 400+ deer roaming around in the open and in the trees. It's staggering what you don't see with nods compared to thermal

I've never had it so dark I couldn't (barely) see the road to navigate back to camp, but my L3 unfilmed WP have been useless for spotting animals or people quite a number of times. Camo still works at night and animals still blend right in. Shadows in trees are a thing and work against you just like they do in daylight, and there are plenty of times even in high light you can't see the animals in trees or other similar areas. Moving animals that run can be seen in the open (less than 100 yards or so) even under pretty difficult conditions but standing still I've missed deer at 25 yards in the bald ass open right in front of us when conditions have sucked


Not so with thermal. Thermal sees all. Thermal knows ALL

Why would I handicap myself by not using an illuminator in a hunting scenario? I use them often and have many different IR sources depending on what I'm doing.

I also agree that thermal sees all. I often light up an area with IR to aid in identification after spotting with thermal.

I skipped the pvs 14 route and went straight to thermal.  I still would like to grab a 14 for nav though.

Thanks for the feedback.   I was interested high performing vs standard NV tubes.   How that translates into real world performance.  This took a direction I wasn’t expecting.   It seems like the consensus is cheaper nv tubes not because of performance proximation but to get a budget thermal sooner.

I use thermal for seeking, NV/laser for shooting but Thermal is good for that as well.  NV has the benefit of navigation that thermal lacks. IMHO.
My typical hunting setup is a thermal on a necklace to pull up and scan for targets.  Once I see heat and ID, the NV/IR laser is up. I'm sure others prefer a different method, this is just for hogs and coyotes.

E-COTI looks like the answer, but I can bring myself to spend the $.


ETA: I have Thermal scope covered.

I’d put money towards illuminator then dedicated thermal (not COTI-style device) wayyy before higher spec tubes. Hunting with handheld or head mounted thermal is a whole different ballgame.

Agree...decent 3rd gen tube with GOOD illuminator then supplement with thermal.

Restricted illuminators either are too weak to see into the treeline or have excessive splash if LED. D2 is nice and bright but has this problem.

ELIR-3 works well but hasn't been updated in years and has a few shortcomings. Some new full power stuff coming out looks like a step forward...have a few on the way and will post when tested.

Info on a pretty impressive new laser IR illuminator:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/CQBL-1-vs-Perst/18-523747/

Thermal is indeed the game changer on detection.  I use IR illumination regularly with the I2 NODs.  MAWL for me.

PVS31a, e-coti, MAWL - Skeet IRx for scanning.

To echo what others have said:

Until you are using thermal you have no idea how much you are missing.

I use a simple PVS14 with a COTI, and a nice thermal hand scanner and feel like I am spotting the majority of what is around me. The COTI has been one of the biggest advantages I have ever purchased since it is giving me quick detection. I have no first hand use of a dedicated helmet-mounted thermal but I am sure that's a good option as well.