I’m needing to find a ruck that can comfortably carry 50 lbs worn over a plate carrier. I have and been using an Arcteryx Khard 45L. But as I’ve increased the weight, the pack wants to ride low due the curve in the frame sheet, which normally rides in the small of my back. This is putting crazy stress on my shoulders/ traps.

I’m thinking of trying an Eagle 3 day pack with and without the frame sheet. Any other suggestions? Thanks.

Try the Mystery ranch packs with BVS - designed to be worn with armor.  Regular packs don’t ride well with plates

Eberlestock G4 Operator

If you aren't active duty, wearing a ruck over armor is something I would avoid like the plague.  Options are to leave it at home, wear front plate only, with rear in ruck (pretty much where it would sit anyway), or store both in ruck until needed.  Most mil-spec guys I've talked to, that given a choice, will opt to leave/store it in ruck, rather than wear it underneath.  Unless mandated by your unit, don't do it.

Thanks for the responses. I’ve hard nothing but good things about Mystery Ranch and believe I may give one of their packs a try.

Normally I would carry the plate carrier in the pack. I compete in 2 gun run and gun and have a competition coming up that requires plate carrier plus pack. I’m not running, more of a hump with stages at each mile.

Ah OK, that clarifies things.  MR is really good kit, but not really what you need., IMHO.  Those bolsters look like as good idea but the guys I know (from SF groups) say they still suck.  They are moving away from their (issue!) MR packs (must be nice) and are buying their own TT "Regiment" rucks.  Seriously, an external framed ALICE, DE, or in my buddy's case TT frame, with a good "short back" ruck (designed to sit on top of your belt kit, not on your waist), such as a Large ALICE and aftermarket TT, LMT, 8-10 pocket rucks, the latest Jarhead ruck, or Large Molle ruck (with some slight mods) would work 100% better with BA.  The external frame has a natural "pocket" between you and the pack bag, which also works well with Plates.

The trick is to cut back (or tape off, jump style) the waist belt, so it doesn't interfere with things.  Let the ruck rest on top of the back belt kit pouches; no waist belt is needed.

I prefer a sternum strap but some guys don't.

The key to good ruck fit with armor is a frame shaped for it.  ALICE and MOLLE packs both have the hip pad set forward of the shoulder straps so it should fit better.

You'll want to wear the hip belt under your armor and above your belt line.  Use a sternum strap or the Mystery Cinch Strap to keep the shoulder straps of the ruck steady.

I can't recommend an assault style pack with a shitty frame sheet or no frame at all for a 50 lb load.  Anything more than about 30 lbs I start grabbing packs with a real frame.

I wear heavy packs over armor all the time.  I generally swap between MR 6500, MR RATS, and Eberlestock Terminator.

The one variable that I have found between them has been the MR cinch strap. Its almost a requirement to keep your straps centered over your plates versus sagging into your armpits and brachials.  Both my MR packs have the BVS system, it works ok as long as its the rubber pads and not the foam one, and if you don't have anything in the way of them like an antenna or camelback.  The cinch strap will probably be a little long, most were made for IOTV or similar sized vests. I had mine cut down and resewn for plate carriers. I saw at one point they made different sizes but I haven't been able to find them recently.

I tried out a high ground gear pack on a mission and I think it was the most well thought pack I had ever used over armor, it was designed just for that. Its contoured for armor, has built in stays, even the straps are designed to wrap inwards over armor. I'm seriously considering getting one, but its hard to justify the price is work isn't picking up the tab.

While it wasnt brought up as an issue, the biggest thing with armor I have seen is personal conditioning. More specifically lower back, traps, and being able to take in oxygen while a plate is being pressed hard into your chest.  Working on those helps substantially with being able to comfortably carry a load over armor.

I wouldn't say that, no belt lets the pack sway and bounce causing unnecessary strain on your shoulders and back.  A better option ive found is finding something with a substantial kidney pad that fills the gap between your lower back and the pack over your armor.  The Eberlestock has a pretty beefy one, ALICE mods are out there, and the MR has an aftermarket add on that isn't quite big enough, but helps a lot.

Have you carried this pack?  What other packs have you carried?

I have a MR Cinch Strap.  That has made a hug difference.  I highly recommend.  The other thing that is nice about it is that when you pull the quick release the pack drops off your back fast because the shoulder straps can can be adjusted a little longer with the cinch strap.

Wow, good conversation.  I'm torn between the one of the TT PNW line packs and the MR with BVS.  The frame the TT pack uses looks to be very similar to the ALICE frames.  I wear SAPI large (10x13) and two things concern me with the ALICE type frame.

1. Is the frame wide enough where the plate will sit between the two outer posts of the frame
2. Will the center cross member of the frame interfere with the plate, it looks like it would ride on the plate making it unstable

The MR Clinch seems to e the way to go with any pack work with a plate carrier.  Appreciate the info on that.

How does the MR Cinch work better than a standard sternum strap?

It attaches to the front of plate carrier via molle. Check it out on MR site. Excellent piece of kit.

I've carried quite a few, been issued a lot of different packs and own quite a few.  Eberlestock halftrack,  X3, phantom, operator, terminator...MR crew cab, 6500, SATL, RATS, high ground 3 day, London bridge communicator, and of course the ALICE and molle ruck and medium ruck.

The only one I absolutely did not like and didn't swap for secondary concerns like size and shape was the molle medium ruck.   I hated its lack of organization in the main pouch and lack of cinch straps, letting everything heavy fall down and away.

Last few deployments I've been putting 15-20 km a week down with armor and packs and the MR cinch strap really helped keep me afloat during the worst of it.

Old pic with 6500



eberlestock terminator



ill try to find more pics with packs if I can.

sternum straps are flimsy, and made to wear without armor putting them up by your neckline when you are in kit.

I think you would do fine with either choice.  I like the super straps and fight light contoured frame on the TT line.  The fight light tubular alice frame is contoured to shape itself over a plate.

I wear large plates and haven't had issues with that or the BVS as long as my external antenna is positioned properly and I'm not wearing a camelback or pouches on the rear of my armor.

Do you recall which model High Ground pack you had? The specs in the 3 day pack look good. Good reviews on the net as well. Thx

I carried a borrowed 3 day pack once for about 12 hours. I liked it a lot.  I have a high ground frame with molle panel thats the same style and got to study its construction a little better later on.

I'm deployed right now and the pack is at home or I would take some pics.

The reason I would say that (rucking with waist belt secured), is this guy is rucking between stages in his shooting comp.  He doesn't need a waist belt cinched down, as in mountaineering over rough terrain or whatever.  For a typical road march on trail or asphalt, you're GTG.

Of course, conditioning plays a part, but "just" road-marching between stages is different from rucking off-road in steep terrain.

The one thing most guys don't understand is the Brit system of integrating belt kit with rucksack.  When done correctly, the ruck rests on the rear sustainment pouches of the belt kit, and no waist belt is required.  Even with BA this still works well.  The US system has always had the canteen cap protruding out of the pouch, and ABOVE the beltline.  Even on the latest OCP molle pouches.  The Brit system has the canteen totally enclosed, and rides BELOW the beltline.  A typical system has 3-4 sustainment pouches around the back, which provides a nice shelf for the ruck to rest on.  US systems typically use buttpacks, which do not provide as much support.

So putting it all together, you have your fighting load out, which consists of a PC system with hard plates, and a belt kit, probably with pistol gear.  Throw on some sustainment pouches around back (2-3 canteen pouches, Brit style, that sit flush with the top of the belt.  This gives you 1-2 qts of water, "brew kit" (usually coffee for us), folding stove and heat tabs, spoon, lighter, and canteen cup, but could also include medical kit, tool/cleaning kit, etc.)  Now throw on a "short back" ruck (designed to be worn with a belt kit) with an external frame.  Waist belt is taped back, jump style.  Sternum strap used as desired.

In this manner, the belt kit becomes the waist belt for the ruck; with a good external frame, it will nestle quite nicely into the belt kit, in the space between the plate and the belt kit, as someone mentioned.  A sternum strap will help hold things in place, also as someone mentioned.

This should be sufficient to get you down the road in between stages for your comp.  The only thing to unbuckle would be the sternum strap, making it quick to doff and don.  You may need an extension (like the Jarhead packs) when running it with BA.

The old ALICE frame might center-point on some armor, but I think the new Down East frames would be fine.  Especially with some upgraded padding kits that are available.

Whenever I do long movements with a warbelt, I have to use a pack that is short enough not to touch the belt at all. Otherwise it starts pushing my belt setup and ultimately my pants down, which becomes an exponential problem as time progresses and you get leaner from loss of water.  If I'm wearing a warbelt, I stick to my SORD helmet carrier, or my mystery ranch RATS, which don't touch at all when cinched down.  My pack pushing my belt down is probably the biggest pain in the ass issue I have while rucking. Even with suspenders it will push the back part down and the front side up.

With 50lbs in a pack over armor you really should be utilizing the waistbelt for support. Otherwise your traps and middle back are going to be paying the price for it, and I say this as someone who rucks with armor maybe 30+ times a year.

When I have a heavy pack I use the pack's waist belt, but not only for support but it essentially replicates my warbelt. I have a pistol mount on it, dump pouch, etc.  If I have to wear a separate warbelt I usually leave the back empty and tighten it as much as possible to try and avoid contact between it and my pack.

Yeah this has been the eternal problem with US kit; how to integrate the ruck and belt kit.  The Brits have always been light years ahead on this, but not many people know it.  All their pouches are worn lower, flush with the top of the belt.  You'd be amazed at what this one simple feature does.

The issue of pack weight on the shoulders vs waist.  Yeah that gets right to it.  Civvy internal ruck systems have the luxury of being "long back" with big padded waist belts.  Many have tried to convert this concept to military use, with mixed results.  But the one take-away from internals are the load stabilizing straps.  When fitted to a good external frame, I think they have a lot of promise.

After playing with all sorts of systems for many years, I have come full circle back to the external framed ruck for military use.   And you are seeing this trend as well with the military.  If you want to wear some kind of belt kit, an external framed ruck is just the way to go.  But there is much cornfusion concerning the "waist" belt on a short back ruck, made for wear with the belt kit, and the true waist belt made for long back rucks, to actually wear around your hips.  All of your military frames, be it ALICE, TT improved ALICE, MR NICE (and new follow-on system), Down East Jarhead, and Army frames are designed for short back rucks.  So trying to rig and use the waist belt with them, as a conventional hip belt doesn't really work.  The belt sits way too high, more like on your abdomen.  You can either wear it loosely, like a chest rig waist strap, just to hold it in place, or tape it back out of the way.  But trying to use it as a hip belt just leads to much frustration.  When the military switched up to Armor-based LBE, with less emphasis on belt line, long back rucks again made an appearance to claim the hip position.  With a return to "jungle warfare" training, belt kit is again being added to the mix, and external frame rucks are again showing up.

The question is, how do you make a belt kit and short back, external frame ruck play nice together.  Well, one solution is Brit style belt kit.  If you have no idea what that is, take a look on ebay for Brit PLCE kit.  The one simple step of keeping every pouch below the top of the belt makes a big difference.  The ruck actually sits down on the belt line, with everything keeping pretty much level, instead of the belt trying to ride up in the front.  Here is where you can actually tape the "waist" belt out of the way, or just loosely fasten it for hilly terrain.  On some rucks I have cut the pad way back, to ALICE size, and just run a 1" webbing belt around my gut to help hold it in place when necessary.

Another technique I am experimenting with is adding in load stabilizer straps to the mix.   If you get the geometry right, you can actually shift the weight from shoulders to hips, just like an internal frame.  The top straps attach to the top of the frame, where the shoulder straps used to attach.  The shoulder straps join further down in a "yoke" type config seen on many modern designs.  Nothing earth-shattering there.  But the lower stab straps are different.  Here you use a cut-down waist strap on the ruck, ideally ending in 1" webbing and a male SR buckle.  You take a Brit belt, or modify a US one, to use the middle attach points, which are right around the hip points.  Using 1" webbing and a female SR buckle.  Buckle together, and you are now in business.  To adjust the weight distribution, you loosen the top stab straps, slightly, then tighten the lower stab straps.  The ruck is then cinched down tighter to the belt kit, which has essentially become the hip belt.  If you have a good padded belt (especially some of the Brit designs), snugged up tight on the hips, you have now effectively transferred the weight from shoulders to hips, via belt kit.  When the hips get tired, reverse the process.  I have used this technique in mountainous terrain, where sometimes you want the hips free to articulate, with the weight on the shoulders, and other times, you want the weight off your shoulders and transferred to your waist; for better balance, and to give the shoulders a break.

If you add this to a padded belt, you want the webbing basically right in front of the hip point, or where the pad should end (so you can kneel and prone out).  I angle it about 45 deg, which allows the waist belt from the ruck to angle down and meet it.  With SR buckles it is reasonably quick to detach to drop rucks.  Or if you alternate the hardware from waist and belt straps (male/female) you would have the option of also just attaching it lightly across the belly if desired.

MR has a new external frame design coming out, which is supposed to be an upgrade of the NICE system.  I am interested in seeing what they have done here.

The long term solution to this is that armor needs to change.

In the interim, dudes will have to suck with Vietnam-era chicken plate constraints and trying to work around them.

Good stuff gentlemen.  I appreciate really appreciate all the replies and conversation, it helps a lot.

Ok, so to clarify, I'm running a 10k 2 Gun competition and the division I entered requires a plate carrier and a 45 lbs pack.  Everything needed must be on us.  Ammo and mags will make up some of the 45 lb and anything else we need to negotiate the obstacles and stages. It's judged based on time and hit factor.  We will cover all type of terrain as well as man made and natural obstacles.  I plan to ruck the off road terrain and jog/ short step the road portion. The comp I've entered is actually a memorial comp for the 5th Group/ Legion.  They are also helping plan the stages to replicate some of their encounters we they first entered country after 9/11.  Here is a link to give you an idea of how the comp runs... Run-n-Gun

I've ran similar before with just chest rig, and others with plate carrier but always with a battle belt for pistol, quick access for mags and dump pouch.  I read a lot into the High Ground Gear 3 day pack since it was mentioned earlier and like how the waist belt is also a hybrid battle belt.  Just not sure how that will play out if pack has to come off to negotiate some obstacles.

I'm still leaning toward the newer TT packs with Alice type frame as they don't seem very long and I should be able to wear the waist belt with battle belt.  I've done my fair share of road marches with a heavy pack (no plate carrier) and always wear a sternum strap and waist belt.  As someone mentioned earlier, without waist belt there is just too much pressure on the traps. Whatever I go with, will definitely pick up a MR clinch strap.

FWIW... ended up going with a High Ground Gear 3 Day pack. It’s 40L so plenty big. Going to add their added lumbar support pad and a MY clinch strap.

Let us know how it is, would ya? Post a review or something? I have to decide between that and the MR Blackjack 50. We’ve got a Norwegian Foot March coming up in November and I want a really serious pack for it. Also thinking of doing the Bataan Death March next year.

Will do!

strain is more distributed over your front plate rather than your shoulders

@unoigo I may be wrong but I remember Matt saying that a plate carrier wasn't necessary for "Tier One" only the 45lb pack. Looking at the class descriptions a PC's only mentioned for the "Operator" class. I'll see if I can't find where I read it at.
ETA: From the run's Facebook page
Attached File

@Matidas you are correct, it isn’t required. But I like a challenge and plan to run both. I know a few other other guys who will be running both as well. And my guess is any of the SOF guys will probably do the same. Appreciate the info though

My guess is that any SOF guy who has done this for a living will never run plates when he doesn't have to.

Case in point, I have shown up to a few classes in Fayetteville area, run by former actions guys.  One in particular was filled with all SF dudes (except me and my bud).  We had all manner of high-speed kit, including chest rigs, belt kits, assault packs, etc.  They, on the other hand, had simple belt kits, with just what was needed for class.  Duly noted.

Another case in point.  I have talked to several SOF vets, with multiple combat tours.  At some point or the other, they have had to shit-can armor, because it just wasn't gonna work.  I know that's not the school solution, or unit SOP, and people are gonna howl, but that's the reality of it.

So I know we hear all these platitudes about train like you fight, and so on.  But I have seen this on several occasions; real professionals don't add in a bunch of artificial stuff when not necessary.  They are very practical when it comes to this stuff.  If they ran a comp, or an op for that matter, they will run the minimal amount of kit to get the job done.

Now obviously, you can do what you want, good training, etc.  But I wouldn't characterize SF guys as doing this just for shits n giggles.  At least anybody I ever met.  Maybe where you live it's different, dunno.

You misunderstand how the body bears heavy loads and the purpose of wearing a battle belt. Always use the ruck's waist belt to support as much of the weight as possible.

I just got back from my 4th combat deployment with SF ODAs from various groups across 3 different countries, and my experience is pretty much the direct opposite.  A few limited situations where guys go slick but its very rare. Every time we trained, with every single ODA, if maneuver training was involved everyone wore plates.

The very nature of the training requiring you to be there usually neccessitates armor. The rest...not so much.

I concur.  METT-T drives the gear.  You may be issued enough stuff to fill three dead hooker bags and a portion of an ISU-90 CONEX, but I've NEVER had to do ignorant-distance ruck humps that required me to wear armor at the same time -- training OR combat.  3-day or assault packs, yes, but full winter war list with optics, radios, batteries, water, chow, while wearing armor, no.

I guess it's a big army and experiences vary- even amongst SF groups.  I have been dabbling in custom nylon for over 30 years, after my time active and in the reserves (USMCR 1976-83).  I think I do understand the nature of load bearing equipment, and what it's like to hump it.  My assumption here is my experiences, and those of guys I've talked to, point towards a certain conclusion here concerning ruck marching in general, and rucking with armor in particular.  I see that it does not.  I have tried to explain the Brit system and how that works.  But some don't seem to want to consider it.

I recently was invited to my buddy's team meeting, to give my input on what might be required, in the way of LBE, for certain mission sets.  We discussed carrying full sized rucksacks, chest rigs, and belt kits.  We did not discuss adding BA to that mix.  The missions I was being asked to look at didn't require BA.  Or I guess more accurately, there was no room left for it.  That was message number one.  There might be times and places where you just won't be able to carry it.  Secondly, this issue of the "waist" belt.  My buddy's team rucks (short back, external frame packs), without the "waist" belt, when wearing belt kit.   And I do the same.  It is A solution.  I present it here for your consideration.  Whether you use it or not, up to you.

I won't mother-fuck other people's experiences; I guess if it works for you, drive on.  But what I'm doing works for myself, and those I know, as well.  So I might disagree with you, but I'll leave it to the reader to decide for himself.

To the OP, you want help in rucking with BA, here's a tip.  Leave it the fuck at home!  Wearing it because you think it might be bad-ass or whatever in your comp is, well, not enhancing the mission, IMHO. As I understand it, you have to carry a 55 lb ruck.  In that case, if I didn't have to wear it, or better yet, had a unit where I had the discretion whether to wear or not, I would shit can the BA.  If they let you roll the weight of the PC into the ruck weight for a total of 55 lbs, then yeah maybe.  But not in addition to.  Just my opinion, obviously there are many others.  If you have a team of Vikings who can hump BA and a 55 lb ruck, not to mention belt kit, well, 'til Vahalla.  Go forth and do great things.

I'm out.

Thays fine, however what works for you is in the context of the fact that you do not wear body armor and kit regularly but are dead set in telling others how to do it. I make this assumption based on the guess that you are around 60 years old, based on being in the reserves 40 years ago.  The fact that you keep name dropping SF because you know a couple makes this conversation extremely condescending considering there are several SF personnel present telling you the fundamentals of what you are saying is wrong.  Regardless, what SF is or isn't doing is not a default solution for anyone outside of that organization

I'm out too, like you said...the reader can decide for themselves. And from how this thread played out they have, and it wasn't in line with anything you had to put out.  I would suggest that you take your own advice on listening to others on what works.

Hey thanks for the advice.  Duly noted.  Yeah in fact I am 62, and going strong.  I hope all you fellas are as lucky as I am, to still be out rucking at this age.  I just did the
"Fan Dance" in Wales, not long ago.  BTW, the former blades who run this thing for civilians, would be happy to discuss their techniques I've been describing to you.

Obviously we disagree on rucking technique.  While I do try and keep an open mind, and consider newer T,T,P's, where it makes sense, I also do not throw out the old, just because it's not the latest and greatest.  I think the key is knowing how to blend both old and new together, for what makes the best technique.  Even what foreign troops are doing.

Yeah I do keep throwing out vague references to my buddy's team, which I apologize for, if anyone took that as my attempt to be cool by association.  It is meant to demonstrate the techniques I'm describing are valid and not the ramblings of some old black boot, cold war Marine.  If you want to IM me with contact info, I will verify who I'm working with.  Or cut out the middle man and speak directly to my bud and his team ldr.  The point is, I'm not pulling this out of my ass; this is valid, verifiable rucking technique.  Perhaps we could compare notes and learn something from each other.  Or not.

While it is true, I have not rucked that much with BA, I have talked to several dudes who have.  I trust what they have said.  I have no doubt it sucks.  To the OP, if I didn't have to do it, I damn sure wouldn't.  I don't have to slam my dick in a car door to know it would suck.  I don't have to ruck with BA next time I go out, just to be able to tell some dude on arfcom, yeah, that really sucked.  Now if the guy is bound and determined to do it, just cuz, fuck, drive on ranger.

As to waist belts.  Well, let's just say some use them, and some don't.  Here's an idea.  Why not everyone go out and test it for themselves.  Then do what works best for you.  Some have shared different techniques.  Some have mother-fucked others that disagree with them.  It's kinda messy, confusing, but lots of info being presented for someone to sort through.

I'd say at the end of the day, experiment with different T,T,P's and see what works for you.  It really is like different tools in the tool box.  There are times and places I use waist belts on long back rucks, there are times and places I use short back rucks with belt kit, and no waist belt.  There might be a time when I use BA, but with a smaller assault pack, or no BA with a full-sized ruck.  Use what works for you.

The Brits issue their ruck in a Regular and a Tall height.

The Australians and New Zealanders would often shorten the Alice Ruck Frame so it rides higher, immediately above the belt kidney pouches.

"Back in the day" I've seen Army Infantry leaving the LBE buckle unfastened so the LBE would hang below the Alice Ruck Waist Pad and the armor vest (PASGT at the time)

The polymer Downeast 1606M FILBE Frame flexes with the hips as your walk or run but is a bit long, it should hug your lumbar.  It can be used in place of the metal Alice Ruck Frame.

Their newer U-Shaped 1609 Frame as used on the Army Medium Ruck flexes with the hips, but carries less weight and rides higher like along the bottom of your armor vest, depending on your height and build.

Mystery Ranch are ordered by your height and torso length.

I have an old school Vietnam-era ARVN Ruck with an X shaped metal bar frame that is a nice overall height to wear over a plate carrier without fouling with belt order kit.  Only problem is it is a bit low in cubic inch capacity and made of cotton duck that is prone to jungle rot.    Definitely a minimalistic, warm/hot weather design, but can probably carry a 50lb load if packed right.

The later Vietnam-era Tropical Ruck used a similar style, taller X shaped metal bar frame and the ruck bag was made in nylon pack cloth in a layout similar to the Medium Alice Ruck.

Newer designs like the NAVSPECWAR Granite Gear Chief Patrol Ruck have a molded plastic framesheet with shapes pressed into the plastic for strength vs the flat HDPE frame sheets you see in the MOLLE Assault Pack, Eagle Lightfighter RAID Ruck, Eagle AIII Molle, etc.

You can sometimes add aluminum staves to the HDPE Frame sheets by sewing webbing pockets onto the plastic then forming aluminum 1" wide 1/8" flat barstock to fit your lumbar curves.

If you have to carry X amount of weight and cubic inches of gear, you can either use a ruck that works with your body or that beats your body.  The Medium and Large ALICE Rucks, you either loved it, hated it or just survived it.

Yeah, on the Commonwealth soldiers.  I cross-trained with the Royal Green Jackets back in the day, and was very interested in their kit.  Their "short back" rucks worked very well with their "belt kits".  Just like stuff from "CAG" trickles down through our ranks, the techniques of their SF would trickle down through their line Bn's.  It was explained to me how their SF guys (and others) had developed these techniques over decades of rucking in jungles, mountains, and deserts.  On a recent trip to Wales, I had the opportunity to talk with the owner of Jay Jay's Genuine Kit, who is a former Blade himself.  He told me what "the Lads" were currently using and what new designs he was working on at their requests.  So there is much here to learn, if you can accept that "foreigners" might have something to add to the mix.  I happen to believe so; others, not so much.

The USGI "jungle" ruck frame was interesting, in that you could choose where the main bag went and so forth, but the frame was still too long, IMHO.  It was essentially a one-off ALICE style frame.  The early molle systems were essentially updates of this concepts; a main bag, and space for a separate sleep system.

The cross-frame or "VC" ruck, was not bad, in that it was much shorter, and integrated with belt kit much better, ala Brit style.  Pretty good ruck, but even slightly smaller than a med ALICE.  But out of the bunch, probably the best jungle ruck available at that time and place.  Go figure.

Yeah I "unfucked" a CFP-90, by removing the frame/suspension, and adding to web tunnels and alum stays.  One of the best long back rucks I've ever rucked.  I just modified it back into a Lowe Alpine "Vector".

I just ordered a good used LBT 2657 "8-pocket" ruck, along with a DE frame and "mountain" style suspension.  Also modifying a Brit "short back" ruck, to use our external frames.  Gonna ruck both of these with good Brit style belt kit.  Just for shits and giggles I may throw on BA and log a few miles.  Ooh Rah.

There are some interesting external frame rucks coming out of the recent SOCOM request.  The TT is one example, and MR is supposed to be developing an updated NICE frame and ruck system.  Be interesting to see what that looks like.

You know I was talking to a mate this morning that does these Go Ruck challenges.  Honestly for comp work, like this dude is doing, if you want to carry 50 lbs "comfortably" in this venue, you'd probably be better off with a Go Ruck and their iron plate system.  If the only requirement is you need 50 lbs, instead of operational gear, then why not run iron weight, close to your back/CG, rather than all the bulk of actual kit.  Another way to consider.

That'd be great, does he post here? I have questions.

Nope, he does not.

That's to bad, the board can always use more knowledge. It was nice to see some current service perspective in here .

Well yes, and no.  Military folks are just like everyone else.  Some are really good, others, not so much.  Some have valuable lessons learned to pass on, some just survived by luck or the grace of God.  I have rucked a bit active duty, reserves, and the Guard.  I have rucked a bunch more as a civilian gear maker and outdoor enthusiast.  Honestly I learned a hell of a lot more about it after getting off active duty and having the time to really drill down into it.  Mel from Kifaru introduced me to many others in the industry and I have benefitted from their experience and knowledge.

Sometimes, depending on who posts, you get a skewed outlook on these things.  If some guys come on and declare themselves SME's, and will book no disagreement in the ranks, then you get the impression that their T,T,P's are the only way to get things done.  Well, I would submit, whoever posts, it is A way of doing things.  Getting all bowed up because someone dares to disagree with you is a red flag in my book.  You know what you know; you share it here; people agree or disagree with it; you move on.  If you find something useful, grab it; if not, discard it.

In the military, you might have a team sgt, and a team SOP.  They are rigid guidelines for how you do things.  If someone challenges these things, they get hammered.  For better or worse, that's the way things work in that world.  But this is an open forum, and we are free to try any technique we want.  So I don't stick to rigid military dogma, just cuz "old sarge" told me so.  Some things are time-tested and still work.  Others are constantly evolving.  The trick is to know the difference between the two!

I have never claimed to be the be-all/end-all of rucking.  But I have been doing it for several decades, something like 43 years.  I might have something to contribute for your consideration.  If you can use it, great.  If you can't, great.  I would just say keep an open mind.  There may be good reasons the military does things the way they do.  Then again, there may not.  It's a big institution with a lot of goofy rules.  I would feel free to experiment and make sure what you're doing is optimized for you and your situation.

Case in point, if I had a comp which simulates combat conditions, I would look really hard at the technique of rucking with a 50 lb ruck and BA.  Am I gaining anything by doing this, or just copying something the military guys have had to do.  Which may or may not be a good thing.  I have had to do some really goofy shit in the military, but I don't know if I'd make a point of doing it again, just to be hard core or whatever, if it isn't applicable to me or my sit.