Hello, looking for guidance as the NFA branch has been less than helpful.

I have found an SMG for sale that is in an estate.  It currently resides on a form3 to a gentleman that passed away a few months ago and had surrendered his FFL/SOT in the early 90's.  I have verified that it is in fact a pre-may transferrable and not a dealer sample or post-86.

How should the Form4 be filled that is sent to the ATF?  From what i have read and from the information i have gathered from the ATF and from other various online posts, I should use the deceased information from the F3 without the FFL number since it is now invalid/surrendered as the transferor and my trust as the transferee.  Then the F4 should be signed by the executor and noted that it is the executor signing.  Copies of the death certificate and proof that the executor is in fact the executor should be included in the packet for the transfer.

Does this sound right or is there anyone else that can share their experience with the Form 4 process from an estate for an item that is residing on a F3 from a surrendered FFL?

A form-5 is used for a tax free transfer to an heir. Since the purpose of the Form-5 is to allow the transfer when the transferor is gone, maybe that would be a good place to start?

OP is not the heir though.

Normally the heir would receive the NFA firearm tax-exempt on Form 5 (because it's an inheritance).
Then (if selling to you) transfer to an FFL/SOT in your state on Form 4 (with $200 tax), followed by another F4 (and a second $200 tax) from the receiving SOT to you.

If the estate is transferring to the FFL/SOT in your state, then it would be a Form 5 to him, then a Form 4 to you. {Wrong. So wrong.}
(In this case, yes, the executor of his estate would sign the F5 as transferor.)

It's completely irrelevant that he used to be a FFL/SOT and that the gun was last transferred via F3. Doesn't matter one bit.

Yeah that's the issue I don't know about. (Never really dealt with estate transfers).

Assuming any/all heirs want the gun sold, it's possible ATF may allow use of a tax-exempt F5 to a transferee of the estate's choosing (sale) but that'd be a question for NFA Branch (unless someone with experience chimes in here).

If they don't allow tax-exempt transfer, it could certainly go F4 tax-paid from the estate.

Form 4 tax-paid to the SOT, unless the SOT happens to be the heir. No free rides.

for all intents and purposes there is no heir, realistically he doesnt want the gun and doesnt want his name associated with any item like the one for sale.  I.E. really doesn't want the estate to F5 the firearm and included suppressor to him.

Looking for the way to properly fill out the F4 directly from the deceased to my trust and not get a correction or kick back.

This is all in state where i live and where the trust is located, Utah.

I appreciate the feedback so far, keep it coming.

Then it's going to be one tax-paid F4 from the estate to your trust.

Great, that is what i hoped.

So back to the original question, how to properly fill out the F4...  :-) as to who the transferor is, how the executor signs, etc.

your trust
check box - Trust

Estate of John Doe (include date of death in Box 3d.)
firearm info
signed, Executor of Estate

Include death cert

Not sure if any other docs would be good to include?

awesome, thank you!

Is there any chance of expediting the transfer since it is coming out of an estate??

MP5SD ?

If it were me, I'd contact the NFA folks using the ask an expert. I woidnt be shocked if they tell you to include a form 5 with the form 4 so that they can have the paper trail.

I purchased an M-16 directly from an estate in-state. You follow the process as kitbuilder outlined. It will require (In LA anyway because we are a probate/succession state) a death certificate of registered owner and or judgement of estate from court. The executor will sigh the form 4 directly from estate to you or your trust. $200 transfer fee and a postage stamp and you are on your way. Documents required from the estate may vary from state to state. A local attorney should be consulted to be sure of your home state requirements. The Executor is legally allowed to maintain the item while the transfer is in process.

No luck on the quick transfer unless it is going to an heir on a form 5. All others get in line.

Good Luck

If it wasn't a Form 4, probably... otherwise I don't think so... Might be easier to transfer on F5 to your local FFL?

Can't F5 to anyone except an heir, like Circuits said.

You could still call/email and ask for expedited processing. Doesn't mean you'll get it.

Thank you Kitbuilder and everyone else for the help.

We are suspenseful.
What are you purchasing?

sorry nothing special in this instance.  M11/9.

Monday i am looking at a colt m16 from late 70's bought new by the current owner.  He is apparently terminally ill so who knows how it will go.

Where do you go to look for these? Is there a secret place to search for estate sale contents and whatnot?

I used to think the same way you are thinking now.  Nope there is nothing secret, all the usual places subguns, strum, gunbroker, mophys, but most importantly you local classifieds or online gun trading websites.  It will take a while to find the first "deal" but you have to jump on it like its a piece of prime rib and you havent eaten for a week.  Also it helps that the market is soft right now, people are jumping through extra hoops listing them in multiple places they otherwise might not waste their time.

Even if the asking price is steep / really high, offer to buy the seller lunch to see the gun and talk about the owner and the guns history.  People that like you will give you a better deal and be happy about doing so then someone who doesnt take the time to get to know them.  An hour or two of your day visiting with a stranger, making a new friend, and putting food in your stomach could save you several thousands of dollars.

Sounds like TWO F4's to me, unless you are not taking the silencer.

You're right, and paperwork landed at the Portland office today!  Last few F4's the check was electronically cashed within 2 business days, we'll see how it goes this time.