I insist on being precise. The whole reason I'm reloading is to improve accuracy. HOWEVER, I feel like my method/speed can be significantly improved while still being precise with the powder. Right now I'm using Varget for 223.

I'm currently using an RCBS balance beam scale. I'm getting into the 22-23gr ballpark by eyeballing a 1/4 teaspoon. I'm then using the same 1/4 teaspoon to dab a little in there which I can't control very well, usually end up putting too much, then have to a few out. I have a powder funnel which helps a lot and is the most pleasant part of the charging experience. This time is KILLING me trying to get it within a couple of powder grains consistent. Reading around it appears a powder trickler should help me here. Agree? Or is there a different approach you'd recommend? If I go the powder trickler route, which one would you recommend?

If I'm wandering left field and need some help, tell me about your routine.. How precise are you on your powder, and what is your method?

As stated, a decently accurate powder drop then trickle up, or go with an auto trickler of some sort if your pockets are deep enough. I did it with a maunual trickler for a while before buying a Chargemaster. While it’s not what I’d call fast, it’ll beat the hell out of your current system.

The Lee Perfect Powder Measure will drop Varget and similar powders quite well. Trickle the rest if necessary.

Powder drop! Man I can't imagine eyeballing like that!!

After that, I would try another powder. I don't load nearly as much as others here, but when I load with powder similar to varget it takes me a little longer to measure charges.

What is your time worth and how precise do you want to be?

I spent money on powder drops, beam scales, tricklers, then electronic dispenser, electric scales.

If I wouldn't have bought all of that, the amount I paid for an A&D FX120i with just the trickler, wouldn't have been that big of a hit.  If this option would have been available when I started out, I would have gone with it from the beginning.

Fast, accurate.

Electronic scales, a good one, will speed up your process a lot over a balance beam. Recently bought a RCBS Chargemaster Lite powder dispenser scale combo and love it. Put off buying a dispenser for years and wonder why?  Just compare the electronic scale with your balance beam until you develop confidence in the electronic. My RCBS Chargemaster Lite is totally in agreement with my Pact Precision and Gempro 250. My RCBS 5-10 balance beam has been in a drawer since  1994 when I bought my Pact and kept only for a backup in case of no electricity.

Pretty much this.  About the only time I'll used large-grain extruded anymore is if I'm running precision loads single-stage, in which case i'll set up a Chargemaster next to the press - and be seating the bullet while the next charge is being auto-dispensed on the charge-master.  Don't forget the McDonnald's straw and reprogramming it (just Google it), to speed up the Chargemaster.

I use a Lyman electronic powder dispenser because I have several rifles that shoot extremely well with IMR-4350 which is a large granule stick  powder like Varget. Some people hate them- I love mine and will toss my balance beam scale before I trash it.

I also use a powder trickler for rifle loads I am working up (I use a single stage RCBS press for this).

Your method is about as tedious and inaccurate as you can get, short of throwing powder at the scale. Buy a trickler and you'll increase your speed and accuracy by an order of magnitude.

I'm going to ask a question then I'll disagree with a bunch of the points made above, but hear me out.

First, what is your budget?

Varget is NOT a long cut kernel.  It is considered a short cut kernel.  It is about 1/2 the length of other conventional extruded powders.  Varget is insensitive to temperature, too, unlike ball powders.

Varget is still not easy to throw accurately but it is not difficult, either.  However, you will find it does not need to be exact to get excellent down range performance.  Perfection is NOT required.

The LEE Perfect Powder Measure ($20) should throw charges very well with some practice.  An inexpensive ($20) hand-turned trickler can be used to make them all exact, if you want that.

I have tested Varget against ball powders with SD of thrown charge weights of 0.1 gr and 0.01 gr, respectively (my Dillon PM).  I have tested hand weighed (+/-0.02 gr) charges against hand weighed ball powder charges.  In all cases, the Varget had lower SD on muzzle velocity and smaller group sizes at 200 yards.  All the groups were small but the Varget was noticeably smaller than the ball powder.

If you want a nicer, more expensive  powder measure, buy a Harrels or Redding or whatever.

If you want to facilitate the trickling, you can buy motorized tricklers operated by hand or via a foot switch.

Any or all of the above will speed things up for you.

If you truly want to do well, and go as fast as is prudent, buy a Dillon progressive press, like a 550.  They comes with an excellent powder measure.

OP, the quick way around this is 2 electric powder dispensers..for me that is an old RCBS/Pact dispenser/scale combo, and a new RCBS Chargemaster lite...I set both up next to each other and then out in front of them I use a gem pro 250 scale..So each dispenser dispenses a charge to its own scale, that charge is then dumped into the pan on the gem pro and validated.. if it is low, I keep my manual trickle full next to it, and simple reach in and pinch a couple grains of powder to trickle onto the pan..if its over I pinch a grain or two off the pan..With very little practice it is easy to get very quick, and very accurate ammo...The Gempro 250 is a much more sensitive scale then normal reloading scales..which also helps load development...Most of the time anymore when loading by myself I just use the charge master lite..it is more then fast enough for me by myself..When the boy helps we run both if we need faster production..Powder wise, almost everything I do is extruded...RL-33, H-869, Retumbo, H-1000, and off course Varget...

Attached File

Hi...  I have a "standard" Hornady powder measure but only use it sometimes and only for large-ish (for me that is ~100 rounds) batches or for loading my "standard" load ongoingly...  I also have a trickler ($19 delivered @ Amazon) that I don't use unless I am doing production runs...  Otherwise, I use a Lee dipper.  You can get the whole set for ~$13 delivered from Amazon.  After you get a little experience working with them, you can easily throw charges within 1 grain and typically within 1/2 grain USING VARGET.  I also use a Lee dipper to trickle up to my final charge.  My scale can resolve a single granule of Varget.  Each one is ~0.02 grains (i.e. there are 5 (or sometimes 6) granules of Varget per 0.1 grain).  With practice, I have gotten to be about as fast as someone using a "regular" powder measure and a trickler just using a Lee dipper.

OP, PM me your address and I’ll mail you an old RCBS trickler I’ve had sitting on a shelf for years. It was in a box of random reloading stuff I bought on Craigslist and I’ve never used it- I have others.

The idea that you’re using a teaspoon to trickle powder offends me on some basic level, let me help you fix that.

I just used my old, trusty Lyman #55 PM to drop a batch of IMR 4198 for .444 Marlin.  Once set properly, variances were only .1 grains, and I was nowhere near max load anyway.  I still weighed charges at random after placing the charged cases in a loading block and visually checking.  All were good.  Haven't worked with Varget, but 4198 is certainly extruded.  Only issue I had was that you need to be "persuasive" when operating the handle to throw as invariably you need to break a couple of grains.

I'll leave discussion of how precise powder charges need to be to make a difference on different targets for different purposes, to another thread. But to answer your question -

It's all about your budget and how precise you want to be. If you've got 2-3 thousand $ to spend then absolutely relible single KERNEL precision (+/- 0.02 gr) with stick powders can be had in ~10 seconds per charge.

For under $1000 you can get an autotrickler setup that's nearly as good.

For a few hundred $ a chargemaster will get you +/- 0.1 gr in 30-60 seconds per charge.

For less you can waste your money on crappy electronic scales that are at best terrible and at worst dangerous.

For $100 or less you can polish and wax an ordinary volumetric measure, work on good consistent technique, and get +/- 0.1 gr with some powders.

It's like racing cars. How fast do you want to go? The answer is ... How fast do you want to spend?

Holy crap, my response simply cannot do justice to how hilarious I found this! It caused me to reflect on my sitting in the garage with this little stubby effing quarter teaspoon I keefed from the kitchen, and how ridiculous (I didn't realize) I would look or sound. I even brought my wife in on it which I never do for forum stuff LOL!!! One of those just got a workout, cleanse the soul kind of laughs. So thanks for that :)

The answer to what is my budget is.."cheap for now" (wife is about to throw me out the winda' if I keep spending big, she needs some more time to accept this new bolt on to my hobby).. but open to investing heavily in the near future.

I've been stalking a few things, namely a Dillon Super Swager, so I went ahead and pulled the trigger on that as well as a redding trickler and the lee "improved powder measure kit" (the little yellow spoons), and of course some more bullets... I think that's going to get me in the ballpark and speed me up quite a bit. Big thanks to everyone, and special shout to @Reorx for showing me the cheapo lee kit that seems perfect for what I'm trying to do right now.

Glad you got a healthy chuckle, and yes, my offer was serious.

You'll like the Redding trickler. Nice and heavy and it'll make those small adjustments a breeze. My only complaint is it's a bit short so I have to put a primer turning tray underneath it to use it with my RCBS 10-10.

If you do end up getting that trickler - and mine is still in use even though I mostly use a Chargemaster now, glue something heavy in the base so it doesn't walk around on you.  You can probably do the same thing with any brand of trickler, but heavier is better.  Since I cast, I filled the bottom of mine with molten lead.  Which fell out when it cooled and shrunk, but easy enough to JB weld back into place.  I love that trickler.

Cheers!

P.S.:  I really like Varget but if you really want to increase your speed and keep good accuracy throwing charges without breaking the bank, you may want to consider changing powders to one of the spherical varieties.

Best,

- R -

If you want precise, quick, and repeatable here is your answer.

https://www.autotrickler.com/auto-trickler.html

I absolutely believe a Promethis is more accurate, but my A&D can detect the difference derived from adding/removingva single kernel of H4350.

That's more than enough accuracy for me.

With the auto throw/trickler it's faster, and more accurate, than my Chargemaster.

+1

I ran two ChargeMasters at a time before I got the Autotrickler. The Autotrickler is three times tighter on extreme spread, and also three times faster. If you are going to be loading very many accuracy rounds, short of the Promethius, the Autotrickler is the way to go.

Harrell’s precision thrower does the trick for me.

I use a single stage press, so I charge my cases in batches before seating the bullets.  I use powder measure which is set to throw an amount of powder  very close to the weight I want.  I use a little bit of clear tubing wrapped with some wire to form a chute to direct the powder into the pan on my beam balance.  If the charge is too low, I use a powder trickler to bring it up to the desired weight.  Since I am throwing close to my desired weight, if any powder needs to be added, it is usually just a fraction of a turn of the tricker.  If the charge is too high, I just dump it back in the hopper of the powder measure and throw another charge.

Also, when I move the powder measure's cylinder up so it can fill, I give the top of the hopper a firm rap with my palm to help ensure the powder settles uniformly into the cylinder.  Over the years, this little bit of vibration has proven to greatly increase the consistency of the charge; particularly using IMR powders.   It's easy to develop rhythm of: 1) Cylinder up, 2) Rap on the measure, 3) Cylinder down, 4) Check the beam, 5) Turn the trickler handle as needed, 6) Fill the case, 7) Move the powder funnel to the next case, and repeat.  Taking my time, I can do 50 cases in about 10 minutes.

When I "rap" the powder measure, it is enough to create vibrations, not enough to damage the hopper.  My powder measure was built in 1982 and it's still going strong, so I'm not talking about abusing the equipment.  Still, if you don't like the idea of "beating" on your powder measure, you can probably get the same result by taking a small D.C. hobby motor, crimping a fishing weight on one side of the spindle and then taping the motor to the side of the powder measure's hopper.

I made my own powder dippers from my "scrap" brass.  Soldered a piece of coat hanger to the case and filed the case down to give as close to perfect a charge as possible.  This was before I had a powder measure. That greatly speeded things up.  Got to the point where I rarely needed a trickler.

Also having a digital scale, even the Franklin Armory one, is going to make things go much faster.

Try this, since you have a trickler by now. Drop your charge, slightly on the light side. This is pretty much standard trickler procedure. Trickle in a tiny amount of powder, then manually push the pan end of the scales balance beam fully down, then release. After the beam settles, you'll obviously have a new weight in the pan. Try to do this in small bites until you get a feel for how much powder to trickle in to achieve your desired powder charge. Most beam scales are pretty insensitive to trickled powder, and you need to push the pan down and force the scale to cycle, then settle, in order to see what your charge weight has changed to. You can get pretty decent production with this once you get into your groove. This should keep you from having to dig powder out of the scale pan and start over so much.