What’s an HK transferable trigger pack go for now?

40k

45k in western Ohio

You mean a registered trigger box like DLO made (and Neal Smith, RDTS, and Alltech)?

Or a sear in a pack?

I would expect a DLO box to fetch closer to $50k.

There is a Neal Smith box on Gunbroker for $52k.

Last Summer I bought a group Industries registered trigger box and the rdts converted 94 with A3 stock for 51.5K
I found that for a customer of ours who was looking for an MP5 and have been kicking myself for not buying it out from under him and keeping it for myself. Hell I could sell the host for 7 to $8,000 easy. And probably get 55 for the Box alone.

I was looking for a Fleming sear for our customer and when that Group Industries box popped up in the middle of the night I was calling that seller at 6:00 in the morning getting his ass out of bed telling him I wanted it. Yeah that seller screwed up pricing that one. He could have had $60,000 on it and it probably would have sold within a week.

A couple weeks ago a an unfired DLO box set up for 9mm (no host) was listed on Sturm for 55k. It sold very fast. It was the first DLO I have seen publicly listed in over a year.

Anything below $50K would be a great buy at this time.

Fleming sear at HKPro for $40K.

https://www.hkpro.com/threads/fleming-sear-9mm-556-762.560671/#post-4058229

I’ve never seen a Group Industries registered HK trigger box. Does it accept all factory fcg parts or is it a semi box that uses a proprietary autosear like LaFrance, Knights Armament, and Ceiner?

It accepts all HK parts. Just like a DLO box.
I didn't even know that Group Industries registered any until I ran across the one I purchased on behalf of our customer.
I'm still kicking myself for not keeping it and just getting a sear for the guy like he wanted.
I strongly encouraged him to pay a little extra for the much rarer and more desirable setup.

Do you have any photos?

I don't know how many packs they registered but this one has a very low S/N

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That’s a semi trigger box with a proprietary sear and the steel housing bears the serial number. You can’t swap for a correct trigger housing. I would not beat yourself up for passing that along.

There is some other concern too. It’s pretty widely believed that Group Industries only made registered receiver HK conversions using an unmodified semi HK receiver with a proprietary sear in a semi trigger box. They, similar to Ceiner, Neal Smith, and Knights Armament, marked and serialized the housing, often the trigger box, and often the proprietary sear. It’s likely that if one did a FOIA request on that, it would show that it was a clip on RR gun.

That is definitely a former semi-auto trigger pack with a married one piece home brew conversion sear/trip combo in that pack for sure.   The sear/trip is the actual real "machinegun conversion part" since the rest of the pack is a semi-auto spec trigger housing (minus the stop pin being removed) so you couldn't replace the sear without mechanically making a new machinegun conversion part.

You could maybe weld on material to the front of the pack so it could use a factory HK sear (like Neal Smith did for his RR conversions) or that guy on HKPro who converted a bunch of similar LaFrance registered packs that took a proprietary conversion sear to instead function with a  standard HK autosear.

To me if the serial number on the pack doesn't match a known HK 9X series serial number range and its a completely unique and distinct serial format than its most likely legally its own stand alone machinegun.   There also appears to be engraving on the trigger pack frame itself behind the hammer strut and covered with a piece of paper.  If the unique registration serial number and group maker markings are on the trigger pack frame itself that that is the registered part with the married unserialized conversion sear.

If its only the serial number on the trigger pack frame and the maker markings and serial are on the grip frame than the grip frame, trigger pack frame, and conversion sear/trip are all probably married together.  

In the event the serial # of that pack is a known HK 9x range serial # that it was most likely removed from a gun it was registered with.  Whether the pack could have been legally separated from the host is probably dependent upon if the host gun had the front shelf removed.  If the original gun had the front shelf removed than that pack was married to that receiver, if the shelf was left intact than they could potentially be separated.  I am not sure if the HK94 in the pic has the same serial as the pack or not...but that host has its shelf intact.

A lot of these conversions its hard to say what was or wasn't done 30 years ago and what was the standard for registration pre 86 seemed to vary from maker to maker.  Mike Brown of Group Ind. may still be alive so it could be possible to track him down to see what was actually registered.

My take to the OP is you actually dodged a bullet not keeping that one for yourself.  I would much rather have a Fleming, Qualified, or S&H sear with no pedigree issues over the Group pack given that is has proprietary and married internal parts as well as all of the unknown gray area/ unanswered questions about its background.

Just my nickels worth anyway and thanks for sharing pics of a pretty rare piece of HK conversion history.

I ran into Neal Smith at the 2019 KCR shoot.

I asked him about his HK trigger frames and he said he never registered any frames, only receivers. On some receivers he left the shelf, on others he drilled the pushpin.

He said ATF has been inquiring of him whenever they get a transfer request for one of his frames, asking whether the rifle in which it was installed had a shelf or front pushpin. He said they are letting the transfers happen if the frame was installed in a rifle with intact shelf.

It is a stand alone kit. I never even thought to get a "regular" hk full auto pack and lay it next to this one to see what the differences were if any besides the obvious cut out for the shelf. It isn't my pack, I just found it for our customer. The efile form 4 came back approved a few days ago for the pack but not the host even though we submitted it electronically just a couple minutes apart. Figures. I bet the machine gun form 4 went to one examiner and the SBR went to another. The serial number is a unique number that is not associated with any HK gun. It is a very low number. The serial number is covered up with the yellow paper on both the trigger box and the housing which has all of the manufacturer markings on it. The box itself just has the serial number. There are no numbers on any of the internal parts.

From what you guys are describing, it sounds like the sear trip lever is a specially made piece to fit the semi auto housing and the rest is "regular" HK? Maybe some of the other parts as well.
Since the internal parts are not the registered parts, who would be a good person to talk to about getting some spare parts in case something were to break?
If you guys need me to take more detailed photos, I would be glad to. I just want to make sure I can help my customer out if there is ever any need to service the pack.

The model is called HK93/94 KIT

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The good news is that is looks to definitely be a standalone machinegun pack.   The other good news is that it most likely take primarily standard HK trigger pack parts (trigger, semi-disco, springs, and selector lever) So those spare parts can be ordered from HKparts, RTG parts, etc.

The bad news is...

- It appears the maker markings (Group Ind., KY, etc.) are only on the grip frame so that old style metal grip frame is most likely permanently married to the kit as you legally can't remove the original maker markings.  So its pretty much stuck as a metal SEF pack forever.

- The serial number is also on the trigger box and while the serial is also on the grip frame as well you probably shouldn't  replace the SEF trigger frame either should it get damaged as it is part of the "kit".  I wouldn't personally want to ever get rid of it/replace it  given it is much more a machinegun conversion part than say the grip frame as the trigger frame has the semi-auto stop pin removed.

- That proprietary sear/trip can never be replaced either as it is a machinegun part unto itself as it could be dropped into another semi auto pack and create a machinegun out of that pack.   You could maybe destroy that ....proprietary sear/trip, weld material onto the pack to support a factory machinegun sear, but again this is fraught with gray area as the pack itself isn't the official registered part (the grip frame is) so you would be sort of creating another machinegun part doing that as well.

- I suspect you probably have to have a retimed hammer of some sort in that pack as well.  (good news is you could legally replace the retimed hammer should the need arise but its going to be a custom affair as nobody knows what that proprietary Group auto-sear geometry is)

Overall it probably functions just fine and the chance of damaging the sear/trip or trigger frame to the point they couldn't be repaired is low.  Hopefully the owner can just enjoy it as is and didnt pay too much for it as its value is probably significantly less than say a DLO trigger frame or a standalone HK conversion sear IMHO.

Thanks again for sharing the details as those Group packs are pretty rare.

Would you mind taking more photos of the proprietary sear?

That it says it’s a kit does suggest that it was not used on a clip-on RR, but the only way to truly know is to do a FOIA request to see the original registration.

Re: serial number, keep in mind that early hk94s had three and four digit serial numbers. It’s not likely possible to determine whether the serial number corresponds to a host.

As I mentioned above, don’t beat yourself up for not buying this for your own collection. I’d put this at the second to last rung of the registered HK conversion list, with clip-on RR being the very bottom.

Knights Armament, Ceiner, and LaFrance all made conversion kits similar to this with proprietary sear, modified semi trigger box, and modified metal trigger housing, with serial numbers and manufacturer info on the metal housing and varied markings on the trigger box and sear.

At some point this was a contemporary way to convert HKs back when FA parts were impossible to find. It’s odd to think that these SOTs wouldn’t have simply registered one part, but back then they had no idea these would be valued so high and probably never conceived that someone would use one conversion device on multiple host guns.

Thanks for your expertise, jbntex. I always appreciate the detailed knowledge that you have and are willing to freely share.