Mods I hope this is an ok place to ask the question as it's semi suppressor related and also did not want GD responses.

I was wondering if any of our resident experts could chime in and explain how gunshots, either suppressed or unsuppressed, accumulate permanent hearing loss. And how does that hearing loss end up manifesting itself? Is it immediate or does it show up years later?

For example, I know that many people hunt without ear protection on and take multiple rifle shots over the course of a hunting season. While they may have auditory exclusion, they are still incurring some amount of hearing loss, but would this be equal to someone who shoots say 2 magazines of suppressed 556 rounds (not SBR) per year but doesn't have any "ringing" of their ears?

Im not advocating for shooting without ears on I'm just trying to better understand the dynamics.

im about to turn 60.   it creeps up on you .   my first signs were tinnitus about 10 years ago.

What Ecco said.

Have you ever had your hearing tested for work?  You get a baseline, and then tested again every year, and if you lose more capacity than what you would otherwise, due to natural age progression, over a certain “threshold,” you get a “standard threshold shift” and it’s considered an injury. To put it simply. I’m not an audiologist but I’ve managed the programs in the past. I say that to say, if you are being tested for work annually you can catch it early. BUT like Ecco said, there’s no fixing it and it is definitely cumulative over a long period of time. And there’s also no safe estimate of “x number of rounds per year with no ear pro is safe,” again as Ecco said.

As a kid, I went pheasant hunting and deer hunting and never wore plugs or muffs or anything, and even trap shooting sometimes without it.  But I think (and I maybe wrong on this) it didn’t affect me as an adult because as a kid I was still growing.

Personally, I have spent more money on hearing protection than I want to calculate but I don’t regret a cent of it. I have a set of Peltors, MSA Sordins, Nacre Quietpro, Silynx, and most recently Ops Core Amps with the NFMI plugs.  If I’m not shooting suppressed I always double up with my NFMI plugs and the amps. Suppressed, just Amps or another set of muffs.  Even before I got Amps, I would wear musician ear plugs under my peltors and double up that way.  I still felt like I was getting temporary shifts/noticed ever so slight hearing loss with just a set of muffs shooting unsuppressed.

I think it’s kind of funny on here, people will post pictures of what is clearly tens of thousands of dollars worth of guns and optics and then cheap out with a $50 pair of el cheapo muffs. And then dismiss the expensive options as not worth it. I’m not saying that’s you, but I find it humorous. No one will care about your hearing as much as you, but losing it will affect those around you. Before my dad finally got hearing aids it was painful listening to him and my mom try and have a normal conversation. That stuck with me and is partly why I have as much coin invested in ear pro as I do.

To your question - if it was seriously just deer hunting or something, single digit number of rounds per year unsuppressed, you might not ever notice a loss of hearing over and above what you lose naturally due to age.  Anything over that, if you CAN wear hearing protection, wear it, suppressed or not IMO.  Again, I’m not an audiologist, it’s your hearing, but this is my perspective.

True. NRR is NRR.  You don’t have to spend big money to save your hearing.  

Also remember that NRR is measured in a lab setting with perfect sealing, and even wearing a hat with your muffs means you’re not getting the full NRR reduction if the seal of the muff is broke in any way.

Suppressed 556, I use ear plugs.  Unsuppressed, I use ear plugs plus the muffs.

I'm really protective of my hearing, so I don't shoot at all without some kind of plugs or muffs, even when shooting suppressed. Even when waterfowl hunting or upland hunting, I've worn some kind of hearing protection like the Walker's GameEar. After a few pairs broke, I switched to ShotHunt and love them. Expensive, but I want to keep my hearing as long as I can.

The only two hosts that I shoot without earpro are my Glock 21 and my BLK AR when shooting subs

If I’m shooting anything else with a silencer I’m wearing foam plugs

If I’m shooting unsuppressed (or the Barrett with the can) I’m wearing plugs in conjunction with over the ear muffs

When Surefire first came out with their earplugs, someone gave me a set so I tried them while shooting an unsuppressed M4

After 300 rounds or so I removed the plugs and I couldn’t hear shit out of my right ear

It took a few days to get my hearing back but to this day I still have trouble hearing out of that ear, it will never be back to what it was before

What’s weird is I had no idea I was damaging my hearing while it was happening - it’s not like the shots were noticeably louder on my right side

Negative

I had the little center holes plugged up

I’m thinking my cheekweld on the SOPMOD stock was affecting the fit of the plug in my earhole

That was the first and last time I used Surefire plugs, and it’s why I double up on earpro anytime I’m shooting without a can

I shoot with electronic muffs over surefire plugs. Can or no can. My left ear has started to ring a but louder lately. It's not fun. I need to get checked for earwax as that can sometimes be a problem. Do your best to protect your hearing because once the rising or the loss starts, that's it. It will never come back and you will never hear silence again.

Get the Bebird ear wax removal tool. It's basically a small pick with a camera. You can easily clean your ears.

@green0
Are the $45 pair electronic or passive?  If electronic, which model?

Greeno:  Same question, and hoping you will list the model number.

(Also: Agree completely about the Sordins).

I always double up with the highest rated 3M muffs I could find and the highest rated foamies I could find, and I shoot suppressed on platforms where it is feasible. One unprotected shot with a .357 magnum around 20 years ago gave me some tinnitus, and I’d like to avoid it getting any worse.

I disagree about the Sordins, I used a set for years until they broke and they were fine.

I've used a cheap pair of Howard Leights for just as long though, and for my purposes they are equal.

Agree in general that what you are paying for with expensive ear pro isn't saving your hearing better... any cheap set of plugs or muffs will do that equally well.  You are paying for (what should be at least) better electronics, durability, wider ranging audio interface options, etc.

I've been using plugs and the Walker's Firemax (behind the ear) at the range. They're comfortable with gel cups and have decent amplification. On sale right now for $97 at Amazon.

The standard one with the band is $107.

Re Sordins vs whatever, the two things the Sordins do well are the headband adjusting from the middle, so that on smaller melon sizes you don’t end up with the earcup connections jamming into your helmet all fucky, and the electronics don’t completely cut off for noises, instead continuing to amplify other sounds. So if you’re coaching someone on an active range, you want them wearing Sordins with plugs underneath. With most Peltors, they can’t hear a word you’re saying, because they clip during every detected gunshot, but with Sordins you can have a normal conversation. This is also nice in/near high noise areas, like around generators or aircraft. Though the Peltors with NIB are best for small team work in high noise areas.

Most other “tactical” earpro (except OpsCore) absolutely suck in every way. Many fit poorly under a lid because of the adjustment design. You can destroy most in a day or three just from sweat, and rain will wreck them very fast. I did a photoshoot this summer on a MOUT site and went through 2 pairs in a sunny afternoon*. I usually get a single summer day of good function out of the cheap gray Peltors, unless it rains. After that, they’re not electronic anymore. Walkers and Howards may be better; some of my friends have them, but they’re not getting drenched when using them. A lot of dudes are successful with pretty much any e-ears on zero/qual days and flatrange stuff. Just make sure you let them dry well before folding up and putting away.

*to be fair, I was rather sick, and would have sweat my ass off, even if it were 60F.

My Howards have been rained on many times, sweated in constantly, and seen weekly or more use for probably 5+ years at this point.
The outer insulation has fallen off the wire pack but they still work.  I can't imagine they will last much longer, but for 50 bucks, have been outstanding.

I agree they clip worse than Sordins.

I'm wearing light ear pro even shooting suppressed 22LR. Do what you can to protect your hearing. Don't overlook other noise sources. You should probably be wearing ear pro when running a lawnmower, chainsaw, weed eater. Wind noise level is quite high inside a motorcycle helmet, so I wear ear plugs.

After getting tinnitus that is non stop mostly in my left ear and having a hard time hearing while talking on a cell phone unless using ear buds, I wear ear pro for lots of activities these days not just shooting.  I have 2 sets of ear pro in my shed and use them anytime I'm using the tractor,  on the zero turn mower, weed eating, running the chain saw, etc.

Yep, I'm 49 and getting the ringing and feeling of constant pressure in my right ear.

I was really disappointed with the MSA's too.   Worse, I have a big head, and they don't fit well with people that have big heads.   I usually just grab electronic Pelto's and double with plugs when I must join the unsuppressed masses at the public range.