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10/30/2020 2:42:12 PM
Green is better (Page 1 of 4)
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Posted: 9/20/2020 10:26:09 AM EST
Filmless aside as I have next to no time with them.

I prefer GP over WP. I've used both side by side enough now in varying light and weather that I'm really partial to green and possibly anvis glass.

My buddy is going to let me borrow his Elbit WP tubed BNVD soon for a week or so. His tubes are fantastic spotless examples. We'll see but I doubt it'll change my mind.

Link Posted: 9/20/2020 10:41:00 AM EST
I'm one of the wierdos that genuinely doesn't care between green or wp. Spent a lot of time with both. It's meh to me. But everyone is different.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 10:43:16 AM EST
I also prefer GP to WP but mainly for the cost. I'd rather get spend the money on clearer tubes vs less performance or to deal with blems. The only WP tube I didn't like was the Photonis WP tubes because of the bluish hue it gives off.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 10:46:45 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MunnyShot:
I also prefer GP to WP but mainly for the cost. I'd rather get spend the money on clearer tubes vs less performance or to deal with blems. The only WP tube I didn't like was the Photonis WP tubes because of the bluish hue it gives off.
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my first NODS are L3 unfilmed GP.  I saved green by going green.  For the price I would have paid for RNVG and WP, I got the DTNVGs with GP for 1k less.  That savings is going to go to saving for the MAWL lol
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 10:59:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2020 11:01:36 AM EST by ARShooter91]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MunnyShot:
I also prefer GP to WP but mainly for the cost. I'd rather get spend the money on clearer tubes vs less performance or to deal with blems. The only WP tube I didn't like was the Photonis WP tubes because of the bluish hue it gives off.
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Cost is a nice plus on the green side for sure. I will say most of my use is in rural areas, not a lot inside structures, or urban environments.

tlandoe07 said he can see more contrast with the green. I definitely agree with this especially looking into trees and underbrush.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 12:13:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2020 12:13:45 PM EST by TNVC_Sam]
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 12:24:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:
It is largely subjective along with a fair amount of emotional investment in certain gear.

But I did do a write up a few months ago of why for most people the science backs up the WP over green, again this is for most people.

But at the end of the night I’m just happy people have NV, phosphor color be damned.
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I agree. Some absolute truths can't be denied but a lot of personal preference.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 8:17:24 PM EST
i’ve have been into green nv for 15 years and the pics of the white look nice, like you have a brighter image.

i wouldnt trade out for white without experiencing it first.

just having good gen 3 nv is good enough for me but the white is intriguing.

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Link Posted: 9/20/2020 9:04:54 PM EST
I used green for years before trying white. I started with a PVS-14 WP to compare to my GP binos before making the switch. I'd definitely recommend trying them side by side before making the switch because as others have pointed out, it's not for everyone.

IMO, it's something you'll know right away, if you prefer it or not. I knew I preferred it the first time I used it.

There's also a difference between thin filmed and filmless white (color and performance) so that's another thing to consider.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 9:22:06 PM EST
I bought WP with the limited experience on older PVS-7s that I had backing up my decision. Since I was much more ignorant back then, I just assumed that GP was crap, not realizing that I was probably just using old Gen 2, or maybe just shitty Gen 3, PVS-7s.

Then I started flight training, and after using ANVIS-6s a lot, I could really go either way. I still prefer WP over GP, but good GP is still really, really good, and not distracting or fatiguing like I thought.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 9:24:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By will-1:
I used green for years before trying white. I started with a PVS-14 WP to compare to my GP binos before making the switch. I'd definitely recommend trying them side by side before making the switch because as others have pointed out, it's not for everyone.

IMO, it's something you'll know right away, if you prefer it or not. I knew I preferred it the first time I used it.

There's also a difference between thin filmed and filmless white (color and performance) so that's another thing to consider.
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Was your first foray into WP filmless?
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 10:02:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ARShooter91:



Was your first foray into WP filmless?
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Photonis Echo first then a filmless -14 to compare to it and then another filmless -14.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 10:21:03 PM EST
Having owned well over 100 image intensified systems of all generations and types (except clip ons, never got into it) I can say after awhile it all kinda looks the same. I hardly notice a difference, at all. That even goes for filmless vs filmed. I notice characteristic cosmetic differences between L3 and Elbit tubes moreso than being able to point out which is and isn’t filmed. Specs are more important- and I’m not even talking nitpicking on numbers, mainly vast differences like that of Omni 4 to omni 7. SNR is the one that jumps out to the naked eye under normal environmental conditions. Maybe resolution if you’re comparing a 45lp to a 64lp and all else being equal. Circle jerking over the difference between a 1950 and 2200 photocathode response, or 0.4 vs 0.9 EBI is just ghey and I laugh at long drawn out threads pontificating about it. Waste of time, especially when you’re on a waiting list for marginal performance gains. Lol.

The difference is really more psychological than anything else, both screen colors have benefits and drawbacks. I would gravitate toward green due to price alone in most cases. I hardly use my white tubes, they usually just chill in my safe. That has more to do with the system they are in than the type and color of tube. I use sentinels more than RNVGs and my sentinels are green and RNVGs are white. The user interface of sentinels is superior for my uses and that’s more important to me than color. So much so that I’ve just been too lazy to swap the tubes over.

YMMV. Ultimately comes down to preference. If you like green better, that’s awesome because you can get good ones for pretty cheap nowadays. If you have to have white, prepare to pay double or more.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 1:13:06 AM EST
I go back and forth between higher spec aviation GP and WP with work. Sometimes going back and forth several times a week. My general consensus is... WP for rural, GP for urban. However at the end of the night, it doesn’t matter color and can do my job the same with either color.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 6:33:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 8:13:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2020 8:50:45 AM EST by GroundhogOZ]
Its an interesting topic but most recent research has shown the number of cones in the human eye that detect white or the absence of white (black) far out number those that detect green or blue.  The impact of this is its easier to detect outlines and edges in grey scale (WP) and thus it is more effective to present the eye with a grey scale image.  

Green colours tended to be favoured in the past because green tended to put less strain on the eye (and a number of other factors including luminosity), largely due to a broader spectral out put more consistent with the eyes natural detection range - and possibly because far fewer cones were constantly activated.  

Another point to note is a lot of people often get colour lag after coming off green vision - you don't get this with WP.  

The better ability to edge detect along with the absence of colour lag has driven the push into white phosphor over recent years.  This is something end users pick up naturally when testing hence the market is driving the push to some degree too.  

It would be interesting to look at user performance beyond three hours constant use-age and where a number of other factors are coming into play e.g. total helmet weight, balance and level of activity. :)
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 8:57:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2020 9:11:32 AM EST by ARShooter91]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GroundhogOZ:
Its an interesting topic but most recent research has shown the number of cones in the human eye that detect white or the absence of white (black) far out number those that detect green or blue.  The impact of this is its easier to detect outlines and edges in grey scale (WP) and thus it is more effective to present the eye with a grey scale image.  

Green colours tended to be favoured in the past because green tended to put less strain on the eye (and a number of other factors including luminosity), largely due to a broader spectral out put more consistent with the eyes natural detection range - and possibly because far fewer cones were constantly activated.  

Another point to note is a lot of people often get colour lag after coming off green vision - you don't get this with WP.  

The better ability to edge detect along with the absence of colour lag has driven the push into white phosphor over recent years.  This is something end users pick up naturally when testing hence the market is driving the push to some degree too.  

It would be interesting to look at user performance beyond three hours constant use-age and where a number of other factors are coming into play e.g. total helmet weight, balance and level of activity. :)
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Is the color lag when everything has a pinkish tint after I come off Nods to a lit area?

Any idea if eye color plays into this as well? Not the lag but the studies done on eyes.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 10:17:19 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By great308:
I go back and forth between higher spec aviation GP and WP with work. Sometimes going back and forth several times a week. My general consensus is... WP for rural, GP for urban. However at the end of the night, it doesn’t matter color and can do my job the same with either color.
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This has been my experience in aviation.  Overwater the WP win every time, but for everything else it matters more the condition of the tubes.

I bought WP PVS-14, but didn’t search much for green Binos.  Maybe I should’ve.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 10:52:00 AM EST
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Originally Posted By tlandoe07:
Having owned well over 100 image intensified systems of all generations and types (except clip ons, never got into it) I can say after awhile it all kinda looks the same. I hardly notice a difference, at all. That even goes for filmless vs filmed. I notice characteristic cosmetic differences between L3 and Elbit tubes moreso than being able to point out which is and isn’t filmed. Specs are more important- and I’m not even talking nitpicking on numbers, mainly vast differences like that of Omni 4 to omni 7. SNR is the one that jumps out to the naked eye under normal environmental conditions. Maybe resolution if you’re comparing a 45lp to a 64lp and all else being equal. Circle jerking over the difference between a 1950 and 2200 photocathode response, or 0.4 vs 0.9 EBI is just ghey and I laugh at long drawn out threads pontificating about it. Waste of time, especially when you’re on a waiting list for marginal performance gains. Lol.

The difference is really more psychological than anything else, both screen colors have benefits and drawbacks. I would gravitate toward green due to price alone in most cases. I hardly use my white tubes, they usually just chill in my safe. That has more to do with the system they are in than the type and color of tube. I use sentinels more than RNVGs and my sentinels are green and RNVGs are white. The user interface of sentinels is superior for my uses and that’s more important to me than color. So much so that I’ve just been too lazy to swap the tubes over.

YMMV. Ultimately comes down to preference. If you like green better, that’s awesome because you can get good ones for pretty cheap nowadays. If you have to have white, prepare to pay double or more.
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+1 I feel the exact same way. It seems like the more night vision systems and tubes you look through, the more you realize they are 95% the same. I recently got into WP tubes and WANT to like them more. But, I go back to my GP OMNI VII tube and seem like it just as much. The WP SEEMS more modern to me as everyone is used to GP from back in the old GEN 1 days. But really I could take it or leave it when it comes to WP

I have even done side-by-side comparisons with a GP PVS-14 in one eye and a WP PVS-14 in the other. I really don't see any big advantage of one over the other in practical everyday use. All a matter of personal preference!

Link Posted: 9/21/2020 11:21:52 AM EST
How was GP in one eye and WP in another? Was there allot of eye strain, as I’m thinking of doing that as I might have found a great deal on an unfilmed white tube.  Would that be crazy?
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 11:40:50 AM EST
I disagree that there's not a difference - at least when it comes to something like an average Omni VIII 64 res 25 snr thin filmed tube (either color) compared to a filmless WP tube 72 res 34 snr (or higher. Omni IX is 72/33) and all other specs with either tube type being very good.

My eyes tell me the higher spec filmless is far better. It's even obvious in pics/vids. Especially in low light.

IMO the latest Omni IX spec increases and DOD's increased use of WP backs this up.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 1:15:50 PM EST
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Originally Posted By cajer:
How was GP in one eye and WP in another? Was there allot of eye strain, as I’m thinking of doing that as I might have found a great deal on an unfilmed white tube.  Would that be crazy?
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It's not horrible, but definitely not ideal for binos. I've only held both up to my eyes for minutes at a time while testing and comparing the two. Under hours of use, I would think it starts to strain your eyes. It really comes out to a grey looking picture to my eyes and the green is pronounced on the brighter details in an image. I swapped each color in my dominant eye and it doesn't seem to make a difference in the combined picture I see.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 1:23:33 PM EST
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Originally Posted By will-1:
I disagree that there's not a difference - at least when it comes to something like an average Omni VIII 64 res 25 snr thin filmed tube (either color) compared to a filmless WP tube 72 res 34 snr (or higher. Omni IX is 72/33) and all other specs with either tube type being very good.

My eyes tell me the higher spec filmless is far better. It's even obvious in pics/vids. Especially in low light.

IMO the latest Omni IX spec increases and DOD's increased use of WP backs this up.
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I'm comparing my OMNI VII tube directly with a 72 res, 33 snr WP tube and honestly can't tell a difference in clarity. Maybe I got a smoking OMNI tube, but my vision is a perfect 20/20 and I don't wear any corrective lenses. I guess my eyes aren't that discerning or I'm not paying attention to the minute detail. I know the majority of people say you can't tell the difference between 64 and 72 res under no magnification (1X) and it only shines with magnification or pictures.

I don't have any experience with filmless (GP or WP) but, it's good to hear there is a noticeable difference - that's the last leap I have to upgrade into before another major breakthrough in night vision is released!
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 1:24:05 PM EST
I just wish I had NV...

I will be poor over here.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 1:42:16 PM EST
Having used both Ill keep my WP tubes
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 2:29:54 PM EST
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Originally Posted By will-1:
I disagree that there's not a difference - at least when it comes to something like an average Omni VIII 64 res 25 snr thin filmed tube (either color) compared to a filmless WP tube 72 res 34 snr (or higher. Omni IX is 72/33) and all other specs with either tube type being very good.

My eyes tell me the higher spec filmless is far better. It's even obvious in pics/vids. Especially in low light.

IMO the latest Omni IX spec increases and DOD's increased use of WP backs this up.
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I could definitely see the difference in your pics/video from WP filmless to these Sentinel tubes. I couldn't comparing to my buddy's WP Elbit BNVDs with a 34.8 and 35.1 ebi and halo a bit under 1. I'd chose the Sentinel if the same price for the tubes.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 2:33:33 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Dtechguy:


I'm comparing my OMNI VII tube directly with a 72 res, 33 snr WP tube and honestly can't tell a difference in clarity. Maybe I got a smoking OMNI tube, but my vision is a perfect 20/20 and I don't wear any corrective lenses. I guess my eyes aren't that discerning or I'm not paying attention to the minute detail. I know the majority of people say you can't tell the difference between 64 and 72 res under no magnification (1X) and it only shines with magnification or pictures.

I don't have any experience with filmless (GP or WP) but, it's good to hear there is a noticeable difference - that's the last leap I have to upgrade into before another major breakthrough in night vision is released!
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Seeing that you already got goggles, it gives you more time to save up for filmless if you decide to go that route.

Rumor has it that by this time next year filmless will have 30% higher specs on average. So, it will hopefully be commonplace to get filmless with awesome specs without having to ask for hand select or specific specs. It already kind of is that way from what I've seen because it seems more and more common to see filmless WP tubes with 72 res /34 snr and all other specs being good to great.

Hopefully the 30% higher will carry over to filmless GP for you guys who prefer GP. If I start to see higher and higher specs on average for filmless, I'll probably do the same and snag some crazy high SNR tubes as well.

Link Posted: 9/21/2020 2:54:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2020 3:04:30 PM EST by will-1]
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Originally Posted By ARShooter91:


I could definitely see the difference in your pics/video from WP filmless to these Sentinel tubes. I couldn't comparing to my buddy's WP Elbit BNVDs with a 34.8 and 35.1 ebi and halo a bit under 1. I'd chose the Sentinel if the same price for the tubes.
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It always perplexes me when guys say they can't tell a difference, lol. I attribute it to the conditions they're using them in, which is possible may not make a big difference for them. And this is why NV/thermal is subjective to every user. What works for me or I find best may not be the same for someone else. However, the statements by the professional whirly bird drivers in this post line up with my experience in the deep off-grid backcountry that high spec filmless WP is the king of the dark.

It's not just in low light, which IMO has become a hive-mind repetitive "fact" that people with no experience using filmless repeat, but in all lighting conditions I've compared filmless to thin filmed, the filmless is better to my eyes.

I swear I'm not a filmless salesman because after reading this over it sure sounds that way!

ETA: I'm assuming your WP goggles are filmless WP because I remember reading somewhere that this was the evolution when switching to WP? @great308 @romad99
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 3:09:54 PM EST
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Originally Posted By will-1:


It always perplexes me when guys say they can't tell a difference, lol. I attribute it to the conditions they're using them in, which is possible may not make a big difference for them. And this is why NV/thermal is subjective to every user. What works for me or I find best may not be the same for someone else. However, the statements by the professional whirly bird drivers in this post line up with my experience in the deep off-grid backcountry that high spec filmless WP is the king of the dark.

It's not just in low light, which IMO has become a hive-mind repetitive "fact" that people with no experience using filmless repeat, but in all lighting conditions I've compared filmless to thin filmed, the filmless is better to my eyes.

I swear I'm not a filmless salesman because after reading this over it sure sounds that way!

ETA: I'm assuming your WP goggles are filmless WP because I remember reading somewhere that this was the evolution when switching to WP? @great308 @romad99
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I would like to spend some time behind filmless for sure. My comparison is thin filmed to thin filmed though.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 3:28:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ARShooter91:

I would like to spend some time behind filmless for sure. My comparison is thin filmed to thin filmed though.
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That is super cool that your bro is going to let you borrow the goggles. Are you guys trading or will you have both at the same time to check out side-by-side? If side by side do it helmet mounted and keep in mind that Anvis will be a little darker than -14 glass.

I personally think you have to head mount it and not just hold the device up to your eyes. At least for me, something "clicks" when it's head mounted and looking through them naturally versus using it like a pocket scope or handheld binos. I think it's easier to look "through" them head mounted versus handheld perhaps there's a tendency to look "in" them.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 3:56:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ARShooter91:


Cost is a nice plus on the green side for sure. I will say most of my use is in rural areas, not a lot inside structures, or urban environments.

tlandoe07 said he can see more contrast with the green. I definitely agree with this especially looking into trees and underbrush.
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+1
Im agree too.
I have 2 pvs14. One omni7 and One mils specs WP Katod. The katod is very near in performance.
The white is very nice and pleasant for looking.
In hight light he's more clean than the omni7  green.
But in the field the GP have a better contrast which enhances the sharpness of the perceived image.
Trees, underbrush and land details is better.
Easier to see and anticipate holes and bumps in the paths.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 4:00:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:


That is super cool that your bro is going to let you borrow the goggles. Are you guys trading or will you have both at the same time to check out side-by-side? If side by side do it helmet mounted and keep in mind that Anvis will be a little darker than -14 glass.

I personally think you have to head mount it and not just hold the device up to your eyes. At least for me, something "clicks" when it's head mounted and looking through them naturally versus using it like a pocket scope or handheld binos. I think it's easier to look "through" them head mounted versus handheld perhaps there's a tendency to look "in" them.
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Yeah we spent a few hours Saturday swapping back and forth. He is going to lend them to me and I'll give him mine for week or so as well.

I got him hooked on NV after some time lol  WP BNVD was his first purchase
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 4:09:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:


Yeah we spent a few hours Saturday swapping back and forth. He is going to lend them to me and I'll give him mine for week or so as well.

I got him hooked on NV after some time lol  WP BNVD was his first purchase
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10-4.

Well, those tubes in that Anvis Sentinel work awesome with that glass. The Anvis adds quite a bit more contrast IMO so that probably has some to do with it. I love Anvis glass but it is borderline love/hate. It gets super dark out at our property and on those nights I find myself using IR more than I do with -14 glass. With good starlight or some Moonlight Anvis is the best IMO. GP or WP.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 7:36:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2020 7:46:34 PM EST by GroundhogOZ]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:


Is the color lag when everything has a pinkish tint after I come off Nods to a lit area?

Any idea if eye color plays into this as well? Not the lag but the studies done on eyes.
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Its slightly different for everyone because everyone has slightly different numbers of rods and cones and different proportions that detect white green and blue.  For me coming off greens its a purplish hue - it does go away, but it can be a distraction for a short time (obviously other factors come into play as well - e.g. how long the goggles were worn, brightness etc).  I definitely don't get that with WP.  

I'm not advocating one over the other, although personally I prefer WP and there are sensible reasons on like for like spec why the WP should out perform GP e.g. edge detection is very important in distinguishing objects.  In fact if you look at other devices like ECOTI - they specifically offer an edge detection algorithm to produce an "outline".  Likewise, continuing on with thermals, you will generally find people prefer white hot or black hot palettes.  The colour palettes or sepias tend to be used for niche applications (in fact I don't think I have seen a thermal that offers a green scale palette - it would be easy to do e.g. digital).
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 7:50:42 PM EST
I run PVS-14 and prefer green for one main reason. To wit, I know instinctively and instantly which eye is seeing better and I switch to it. Matters most when I happen into better lighted areas.

This may not make sense to younger people who didn't watch the old style black and white TVs for decades. See them now, and they look awful. But those awful screens showed us the world with about the same oddly bluish tint that "white" phosphorus delivers.
My mind still kind of believes things that look like that are real.
Green doesn't look like this and I know it is coming to me via the NVG.

If that makes sense.
Link Posted: 9/22/2020 12:55:20 AM EST
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Originally Posted By will-1:

It's not just in low light, which IMO has become a hive-mind repetitive "fact"... but in all lighting conditions I've compared filmless to thin filmed, the filmless is better.
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This. Filmless is 'different and better' but WP is just another color.

When all else fails... get both!

Link Posted: 9/22/2020 2:49:47 AM EST
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Originally Posted By BlackPeterbilt:


This. Filmless is 'different and better' but WP is just another color.

When all else fails... get both!

https://i.ibb.co/JdW905w/20200921-234057.jpg
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How's running different colored tubes in each eye?  Do you get headaches/lots of eye strain?  I've been playing around with that idea myself.
Link Posted: 9/22/2020 6:48:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2020 6:52:56 AM EST by tlandoe07]
One thing worth considering is that WP technically would always have higher contrast by default. Since I2 night vision is monochromatic, your contrast is essentially dictated by whatever the difference is in your phosphor color and black. Black is not a color, therefor it doesn’t have a wavelength.

P43 (green/yellow) is 545nm

P45 (white) contains all wavelengths from 390-700nm, even though it’s specified for 545nm. This is because 545 is the midpoint between 390 and 700 (700-390/2=545).

In practical terms, white is the farthest from black on the color spectrum (not that black is technically on the spectrum, but you get the idea), and therefor you will perceive a higher contrast between white and black.

That said, P43 and P45 act a little differently and P43 is a more persistent phosphor that maintains luminance for longer (has a slower decay) than P45. This is probably a big reason why lots of people, myself included, aren’t able to tell much of a difference in perceived contrast between green and white tubes of equal quality.

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Link Posted: 9/22/2020 10:49:28 AM EST
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Originally Posted By cajer:

How's running different colored tubes in each eye?
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There's no problem with it but there's no advantage either.

Any difference between eyes may result in headaches, strain etc. This includes different focus, tube performance or color in this case. The different color feels odd but is not detrimental.

The color is perfect. Not too green and not too white/blue but just right.

I sure as hell don't see an increased contrast or depth. This was the idea with red-green Christmas goggles.

I wouldn't run two colors by choice. But if it's the only thing available go for it
Link Posted: 9/22/2020 10:24:08 PM EST
OP is wrong and should feel bad
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 2:32:01 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Dtechguy:


I'm comparing my OMNI VII tube directly with a 72 res, 33 snr WP tube and honestly can't tell a difference in clarity. Maybe I got a smoking OMNI tube, but my vision is a perfect 20/20 and I don't wear any corrective lenses.
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You generally need better than 20/20 to make use of 72 lp or better (on a 40-degree goggle with 1x mag).   I'm 20/16 (correctable) and can certainly see the difference between 64 and 72 lp.  81 lp tubes look the same as 72 in a regular goggle to me, eye limited, not tube limited.

I much prefer green to white.  The white is somewhat harsh and appears brighter.  Ok on a ground system with manual gain, but really annoying in an ANVIS, plus the white color is distracting when your whole cockpit is basically green.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 6:35:56 AM EST
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Originally Posted By NVGdude:


You generally need better than 20/20 to make use of 72 lp or better (on a 40-degree goggle with 1x mag).   I'm 20/16 (correctable) and can certainly see the difference between 64 and 72 lp.  81 lp tubes look the same as 72 in a regular goggle to me, eye limited, not tube limited.

I much prefer green to white.  The white is somewhat harsh and appears brighter.  Ok on a ground system with manual gain, but really annoying in an ANVIS, plus the white color is distracting when your whole cockpit is basically green.
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I've had much different results. I'm 20/15 in my dominant eye and using a PVS14 there's absolutely no difference to me between 64 and 81 or any step in between without magnification. Even 57 vs 72 was hard to pick out using filmless tubes.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 7:41:14 AM EST
Green filmless is best. Green cars are faster than white cars. That is all.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 7:46:55 AM EST
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Originally Posted By westernhaikus1:
OP is wrong and should feel bad
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WP kinda feels weird to my eye, maybe ive gotten so used to green.


That was part of the reason I wanted to catch up with you on a weekend when you had a set of bino's on hand to see if having WP over both eyes feels any different to me.

I would hate to spend 9k on some WP bino's only to find out I get a headache in 15 minutes and should have went with green.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 8:28:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By westernhaikus1:
OP is wrong and should feel bad
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I do man. I feel bad enough that I'd be willing to borrow and throw someone's WP filmless tubes in a set of my goggles. Maybe it's this anvis glass. I'll spend some more time with 14 glass as I've been using my Sentinels with anvis all month.

Link Posted: 9/23/2020 9:04:44 PM EST
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Originally Posted By markymarkkev:


my first NODS are L3 unfilmed GP.  I saved green by going green.  For the price I would have paid for RNVG and WP, I got the DTNVGs with GP for 1k less.  That savings is going to go to saving for the MAWL lol
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Just bought the same thing. To be fair, you can get filmless WP RNVGs from TNVC for only a couple hundred more and request whatever minimum specs you want. But yeah, these are my first NODs as well. Hopefully green works well with my eyes.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 9:34:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 9:36:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 9:40:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TNVC:


No rumor, confirmed in our meetings with L3.
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What kinda specs are "average" right now?
Link Posted: 9/24/2020 12:25:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2020 2:27:02 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TNVC:

Our L3 Unfilmed as of late are averaging 33-35 S/N.
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That’s impressive
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