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Posted: 9/13/2020 6:04:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Smokeless powder burns, which is a lot slower process than the explosion of black powder.
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Posted: 9/13/2020 6:09:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Black powder is an explosive,smokeless powder is a propellant.
Snowman357 |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 6:13:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Never understood why it is acceptable to ha a gap between the two in modern centerfire, but it makes a bomb when a muzzleloader does not have the projectile sitting right on the powder charge. Can anyone explain this? Conflagrant vs. explosive. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 6:13:43 PM EDT
[#4]
All the above are correct.
The gap in a muzzleloader charge effectively creates a plugged breech when the charge explodes, rather then rapidly burn. Lay a SMALL trail of both type powders and touch them off from a safe distance- you'll immediately understand. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 6:18:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Bear in mind this is just a guess... I think if you let black powder sit loose in a case or muzzleloader the initial ignition quickly lights all the granules as the initial flash flows through the loose powder causing a quick pressure spike. I think by packing the powder tightly without any space to move, it creates a more progressive burn because the powder is only ignited from one end and then burns to the other.
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Posted: 9/13/2020 7:04:36 PM EDT
[#6]
This is off topic. But, if you’ve opened this thread, you might be wondering what happens when you put the WRONG POWDER in a black powder muzzle loader:
 Smokeless Powder in a Muzzleloader? Now you know what NOT to do. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 9:46:16 PM EDT
[#7]
The propellants are classified according the the way they burn vented and confined.
There is a big difference between the two in terms of the size of the zone that is burning and how fast that happens. In black powder, the zone can be microscopic versus several millimeters in smokeless, so BP is considered an explosive and smokeless is considered a deflagrant. If you only partially confine the BP, the burn zone propagates a sonic forward wave that reflects back into more powder and the pressure rise far exceeds the one you would have without that gap. Best analogy I can give is a slide hammer with no running start versus the whack it creates with the velocity from that slide distance. Instead of a push, you get a grenade. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 11:20:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Conflagrant vs. explosive. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Never understood why it is acceptable to ha a gap between the two in modern centerfire, but it makes a bomb when a muzzleloader does not have the projectile sitting right on the powder charge. Can anyone explain this? Conflagrant vs. explosive. Heading to the dictionary.  |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 11:21:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All the above are correct. The gap in a muzzleloader charge effectively creates a plugged breech when the charge explodes, rather then rapidly burn. Lay a SMALL trail of both type powders and touch them off from a safe distance- you'll immediately understand. Sounds fun. Science project tomorrow.  |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 11:39:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is off topic. But, if you’ve opened this thread, you might be wondering what happens when you put the WRONG POWDER in a black powder muzzle loader:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en384qVqrugNow you know what NOT to do. Awesome video. Shame to watch them destroy the guns, but cool to watch. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 11:40:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The propellants are classified according the the way they burn vented and confined. There is a big difference between the two in terms of the size of the zone that is burning and how fast that happens. In black powder, the zone can be microscopic versus several millimeters in smokeless, so BP is considered an explosive and smokeless is considered a deflagrant. If you only partially confine the BP, the burn zone propagates a sonic forward wave that reflects back into more powder and the pressure rise far exceeds the one you would have without that gap. Best analogy I can give is a slide hammer with no running start versus the whack it creates with the velocity from that slide distance. Instead of a push, you get a grenade. The slide hammer thing makes sense to me. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 11:51:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Similar things can happen when your load density is too low with smokeless. Primer ignites the whole charge instantly and boom.
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Posted: 9/14/2020 12:02:29 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is off topic. But, if you’ve opened this thread, you might be wondering what happens when you put the WRONG POWDER in a black powder muzzle loader: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en384qVqrugNow you know what NOT to do.  dayyymn. Btw, love iraq veteran 8888.
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