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Posted: 4/23/2020 5:34:19 PM EDT
A while back, I got a SMOKING deal on a new, screwbarrel Ruger 77/22 Mag.  

Having been busy for some time, I just didn't put ANY (not one iota)of though into buying the proper scope for the rifle.

I ended up getting a Leupold Rifleman for the gun and, while zeroing it, I decided to up the power and bit and, of course, the zero shifted.  I was super pissed at myself when I realized I should have just done more research before buying an optic for it.

After having looked and looked...I get the shittiest, ad based results that almost never include the exact infor I am looking for...soooooooooo, I am turning to you guys.

I am looking for a regular, duplex reticle,  FIRST FOCAL PLANE scope for a .22lr /.22magnum rifle.  Just a regular, GOOD, hunting style scope.  As I said, duplex reticle, either a 2 to 7, 3 by 9 or even a 4 by 10, I guess.

Thanks for the help guys...I am stumped by this.
Link Posted: 4/23/2020 10:04:05 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't know of any FFP scopes with duplex reticles. Most shooters want FFP scopes to take advantage of more complex reticles without worrying about what power setting the scope is on.
ETA: I see PA has a2.5-10 FFP duplex.

The Leupold should be a decent scope and if the power adjustment changed the zero why would FFP or SFP make a difference? Leopold has a good warranty I would be sending it in.
Link Posted: 4/24/2020 12:53:04 AM EDT
[#2]
As I understand it ( mind you...every single explanation seems to be different ) on the SFP, your zero is essentially set to the power you zero at.  If you change power, then your impact point changes according to the power level.  This is exactly what I noticed on the Leopold Rifleman.  At, lets say 3 power, my Zero is dead on at 50 yards.  If I raised the power to 9 power to view a group, that is fine, BUT if I try to shoot a group at 9 power, then my impact zone changes.  If I return to 3 power...the zero point is correct again and my POI is also the group zone at that distance.

Essentially, you are dedicated to the power level you zero at for an SFP.  Now, for target or long range shooters...that is not a big deal because many times they are focused on a particular power level and changing power is not on their list of priorities.  For me, it's about what I am doing at that particular time.  

I like to be able to bump or decrease the power level depending on my needs at the time.  On all of my FFP scopes, I can change power at will and not have to worry about the zero changing.  Since I a not that great of a shooter, it doesn't bother me that the reticle changes size along with magnification.

The thing here is, I don't' want some fancy mil dot type scope on a simple 22....it's a Ruger...not an Anschutz so accuracy is NOT it's claim to fame.  I just want an easy to see reticle that I can shoot at any power without having to worry about my zero differing.
Link Posted: 4/24/2020 1:39:29 AM EDT
[#3]
I don't know of any FFP duplex scopes either.

The Cabelas Covenant is a sweet scope for the money. Watch for them to go on sale.
Link Posted: 4/24/2020 9:01:35 AM EDT
[#4]
I am not 100% sure your zero should be shifting with power adjustment. If this was typically of sfp scopes why would anyone buy  a variable at all?
My scope experience is very limited by my understanding of ffp is that it keeps the adjustments and use of a reticle for ranging / hold off the same regardless of power level. For example if I practice holding off to hit a small 150 yard target off my 50 yard zero, no matter what power setting I am on the same reticle hash will always correspond to my hold.
I am after 4 decades of shooting just now getting familiar with optics, having been a long time rifle competitor in disciplines that until recently mandated iron sights.
My first serious scope is an Athlon. Not expensive sadly still Asian made but solid functionality. As time goes on I am getting much better as using and understanding the utility of a Christmas tree type reticle
Link Posted: 4/24/2020 4:33:34 PM EDT
[#5]
On any decent FFP or SFP scope the zero in the center of the crosshairs remains the same throughout its power settings.

If you want a simple easy to see reticle on any power range that is describing a SFP reticle. The zero will remain in the center of the crosshairs on all power settings. The reticle will appear to your eye the same on all power levels. The reticle subtensions will change with power levels because the power levels magnify the image but not the reticle. This means that on 3X the space between the thin wire and thick wire might cover 30" at 100yds. As you up the magnification to 9x the image grows larger but not the appearance of the reticle so it may now only cover 10" at 100yds. Parallax error can increase with magnification settings making focus and eye/head position more important but the zero should not change.

A FFP scope the reticle magnifies with the image, as you zoom in the reticle appear to your eye larger. Many FFP scopes the reticle is almost useless on low powers because it appears so small. So a duplex thin wire section might span 10" at 100yds on 3X but any other power it will still always cover 10" at 100yds. At lower powers it can be difficult to see a 10" object at 100yds, that's how the reticle will also be. Now zoom in and 10" object takes up the whole scope and so does the reticle.

Now get a more complex reticle like mil dot or BDC and it's even more important. A SFP mil dot spacing value will change with the magnification. A FFP mil dot the dots spacing value always remains the same throughout magnification range.

Sounds like you just want a quality basic duplex SFP scope, and that should work fine. I do really enjoy mil dot and BDC reticles on my .22's even Rugers. See the .22lr drops so much at longer ranges it is nice and very useful to have multiple aiming refrences. I zero at 50yds then have aiming refrences for 100yds, 150yds etc. It's not always about pinpoint precision but more often about making a quick shot on a rabbit or squirrel at varying ranges. Some of my favorites for .22's without "busy" reticles are the Hawke 2-7 mildot and the Mueller APV 2-7 BDC.
Link Posted: 4/24/2020 11:00:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I am not 100% sure your zero should be shifting with power adjustment. If this was typically of sfp scopes why would anyone buy  a variable at all?
My scope experience is very limited by my understanding of ffp is that it keeps the adjustments and use of a reticle for ranging / hold off the same regardless of power level. For example if I practice holding off to hit a small 150 yard target off my 50 yard zero, no matter what power setting I am on the same reticle hash will always correspond to my hold.
I am after 4 decades of shooting just now getting familiar with optics, having been a long time rifle competitor in disciplines that until recently mandated iron sights.
My first serious scope is an Athlon. Not expensive sadly still Asian made but solid functionality. As time goes on I am getting much better as using and understanding the utility of a Christmas tree type reticle
View Quote

I am in the same boat as you.  All of my other optics have been FFP ( or the red dot on my AUG and my shorty AR-10)....and I am still on the long path to familiarization.
Link Posted: 4/24/2020 11:01:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
On any decent FFP or SFP scope the zero in the center of the crosshairs remains the same throughout its power settings.

If you want a simple easy to see reticle on any power range that is describing a SFP reticle. The zero will remain in the center of the crosshairs on all power settings. The reticle will appear to your eye the same on all power levels. The reticle subtensions will change with power levels because the power levels magnify the image but not the reticle. This means that on 3X the space between the thin wire and thick wire might cover 30" at 100yds. As you up the magnification to 9x the image grows larger but not the appearance of the reticle so it may now only cover 10" at 100yds. Parallax error can increase with magnification settings making focus and eye/head position more important but the zero should not change.

A FFP scope the reticle magnifies with the image, as you zoom in the reticle appear to your eye larger. Many FFP scopes the reticle is almost useless on low powers because it appears so small. So a duplex thin wire section might span 10" at 100yds on 3X but any other power it will still always cover 10" at 100yds. At lower powers it can be difficult to see a 10" object at 100yds, that's how the reticle will also be. Now zoom in and 10" object takes up the whole scope and so does the reticle.

Now get a more complex reticle like mil dot or BDC and it's even more important. A SFP mil dot spacing value will change with the magnification. A FFP mil dot the dots spacing value always remains the same throughout magnification range.

Sounds like you just want a quality basic duplex SFP scope, and that should work fine. I do really enjoy mil dot and BDC reticles on my .22's even Rugers. See the .22lr drops so much at longer ranges it is nice and very useful to have multiple aiming refrences. I zero at 50yds then have aiming refrences for 100yds, 150yds etc. It's not always about pinpoint precision but more often about making a quick shot on a rabbit or squirrel at varying ranges. Some of my favorites for .22's without "busy" reticles are the Hawke 2-7 mildot and the Mueller APV 2-7 BDC.
View Quote

Thank you, Sir!!!!  I'll double check my rifle and mounts....there is something going on with it.  I'll do some more serious testing next week.
Link Posted: 4/24/2020 11:02:50 PM EDT
[#8]
I tried to replicate your issue on 3 different sfp scopes I have. A leupold 2-7, a burris 4-12, and a leupold 6.5-20. A fired 5 shot strings on the lowest setting, then the same on the highest. I didn't get any shift in poi. Groups were a bit larger on lowest setting, but that is understandable. I'd send the scope in for warranty, something is wrong.
Link Posted: 4/24/2020 11:15:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Athlon is the #1 scope of the NRL 22 matches.If you can overlook the made in china thing, they are pretty nice for the $.
Link Posted: 4/25/2020 12:36:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I tried to replicate your issue on 3 different sfp scopes I have. A leupold 2-7, a burris 4-12, and a leupold 6.5-20. A fired 5 shot strings on the lowest setting, then the same on the highest. I didn't get any shift in poi. Groups were a bit larger on lowest setting, but that is understandable. I'd send the scope in for warranty, something is wrong.
View Quote
@Greyknight: thank you, Sir!  I am taking the rifle out this week and will test it one more time.  I noticed I have just the slightest scope cant so I am going to go over everything today and then see what happens.  If the issue continues, I will give Leupold a call.
Link Posted: 4/25/2020 7:52:20 PM EDT
[#11]
I just picked up this Vortex 6-24x50mm and it's awesome! FFP, Christmas tree MOA reticle, 1/4"moa adjustments, side focus/parallax knob.



Link Posted: 4/25/2020 10:29:53 PM EDT
[#12]
If you're shifting POI through magnification range, the scope is fucked.

Of my two low end scopes, neither exhibit this issue, and I will recommend them for what they are, quality rimfire scopes.

Leupold VX-freedom 1.5-4

Vortex diamondback 2-7

Of course the glass drops off around 200 yards, but it's a rimfire...

The leupold does not click very solid, but that's all I can really say negative about either.
Link Posted: 5/6/2020 11:55:59 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ChrisNTN:
I just picked up this Vortex 6-24x50mm and it's awesome! FFP, Christmas tree MOA reticle, 1/4"moa adjustments, side focus/parallax knob.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/40774/20200425_144244-1386263.jpg

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/40774/20200425_140119-1386264.jpg
View Quote


This is the Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50 with MOA or Mil tactical turrets and matching FFP “tree” reticle.

I just put one on my Remington 541S Custom Sporter .22LR.  The rifle is extremely accurate and the scope permits accurate elevation and windage adjustments with the turrets and hold overs and hold offs with the reticle.  Once you get out beyond 100 yards, this scope shines on a .22LR with match grade ammo.

Even so, bullet drop will max out this scope, using both turrets and reticle by 300 yards or so unless you use MOA sloped bases.  It’s a good value in the $400 range for long range shooting on a .22LR.


Link Posted: 5/6/2020 3:12:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Coincidentally, I was playing with this exact optic yesterday on a buddy's rifle.  That is a really nice optic for the money!

Link Posted: 7/16/2020 6:49:08 PM EDT
[#15]
I had nearly forgotten about this thread ( as I am sure all of you did!!! ) but I had to add my udpate:

Gun and Scope are fine.  I went to my local haunt during the covid nonsense layoff thingie I had going on and took a single lot of ammo and new glasses and shot from a very secure bag setup.

The gun and optic are fantastic....the 'tard behind the trigger, howver, is a bit of a doofus I am afraid.

Thanks for the help and input, guys,  I appreciate it.
Link Posted: 7/23/2020 4:51:41 PM EDT
[#16]
A timely bump op.
I was looking for a smaller 22 scope.
So the guy up the page with the Hawke 2_7x32 recommendation, thanks I ordered one.
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