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Free SBR stamp? (Page 16 of 16)
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Link Posted: 1/15/2024 6:58:08 AM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By Missilegeek:
Is there any historical precedent of takesies backsies on form 1's once they've been given out?
View Quote


I haven’t seen it…
Link Posted: 1/15/2024 9:52:56 AM EDT
[#2]
That’s what I’ve been saying. Once you have the approved form 1, it’s done.
Link Posted: 1/15/2024 10:06:01 AM EDT
[#3]
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Originally Posted By 3-gun:
That’s what I’ve been saying. Once you have the approved form 1, it’s done.
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FreeBR has conditions attached to it.  Oddly the outcome of the final rule saying pistol braces make the gun a short barreled rifle.

No stamps were ever given out for the freeBR. so it is a messy situation.  If they’re smart they’ll lose and hand out free stamps to the few thousand people who applied.
Link Posted: 1/15/2024 11:14:11 AM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By 3-gun:
That’s what I’ve been saying. Once you have the approved form 1, it’s done.
View Quote


Agreed. The conditional approval is also seen on pre-86 dealer samples and post-86 dealer samples. As mentioned, the conditional approval gives explanation for the lack of a paid tax stamp.
Link Posted: 1/15/2024 12:48:29 PM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By durtychemist:
If they’re smart they’ll lose and hand out free stamps to the few thousand people who applied.
View Quote


Why do people get so hung up on stamps? IT DOESN’T MATTER! Your approved Form 1 shows proof of registration. The conditions are why the tax was waved.

As mentioned, when those semi-auto shotguns were magically turned into DDs, no stamps were issued. What makes these Form 1s any different? SBRs on NFA registry.
Link Posted: 1/15/2024 1:44:53 PM EDT
[#6]
People forget, when you leave your nfa items to a family member after you die, they don’t get a stamp either.
Link Posted: 1/15/2024 1:50:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 3-gun:
People forget, when you leave your nfa items to a family member after you die, they don’t get a stamp either.
View Quote


People think the stamp is the approval, it's not, that's the form. The stamp is a subsection that shows you paid the applicable tax. Which was waived in this instance.
Link Posted: 1/15/2024 4:30:31 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By Missilegeek:


People think the stamp is the approval, it's not, that's the form. The stamp is a subsection that shows you paid the applicable tax. Which was waived in this instance.
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Originally Posted By Missilegeek:
Originally Posted By 3-gun:
People forget, when you leave your nfa items to a family member after you die, they don’t get a stamp either.


People think the stamp is the approval, it's not, that's the form. The stamp is a subsection that shows you paid the applicable tax. Which was waived in this instance.


There is technically no stamp with e file either. An image of one I guess.
Link Posted: 1/15/2024 4:37:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KitBuilder] [#9]
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Originally Posted By Screwball:
Why do people get so hung up on stamps? IT DOESN'T MATTER! Your approved Form 1 shows proof of registration. The conditions are why the tax was waved.
View Quote
I think it's just because they're mentioned so much in discussions of NFA firearms.
"You got a stamp for that?"
"I'm a stamp collector. Checkout my 2-stamp Tuesday combo."
"Don't worry, we've got stamps for all this."

Nobody really ever calls it "registration".

It's kind of the NFA equivalent of calling every magazine a clip, I guess, except usually they really do have a stamp.
Link Posted: 1/15/2024 4:42:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BM1455] [#10]
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Originally Posted By durtychemist:


FreeBR has conditions attached to it.  Oddly the outcome of the final rule saying pistol braces make the gun a short barreled rifle.

No stamps were ever given out for the freeBR. so it is a messy situation.  If they’re smart they’ll lose and hand out free stamps to the few thousand people who applied.
View Quote



 But yet we went through the same process as a stamp because the government told us we needed to, so fixing it in our favor is their problem no matter what the courts say about their rule.
Link Posted: 1/16/2024 12:24:10 AM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By Missilegeek:


Yeah it seems the ATF published a rule and issued form 1's. The forms are current and valid. To positively change or revoke that, it seems they would have to individually contact and legally serve notice to every person about every item. Otherwise you could just keep your signed form and ignore them.

Is there any historical precedent of takesies backsies on form 1's once they've been given out?
View Quote

What would be so hard about contacting everyone that has FreeBR'd?  They have your physical and email address.

As for historical precedent, no.  
But has the ATF offered a Forbearance (not an amnesty) before?
Has the ATF ever created a rule they tried to treat like law, only to have that rule (potentially) found illegal AND unconstitutional?
The ONLY reason they offered FreeBR's is because of the rule they created.  

I have no clue how what they will do with this cluster fudge they created, neither does anyone else.

Link Posted: 1/16/2024 12:43:04 AM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By panthermark:

What would be so hard about contacting everyone that has FreeBR'd?  They have your physical and email address.

As for historical precedent, no.  
But has the ATF offered a Forbearance (not an amnesty) before?
Has the ATF ever created a rule they tried to treat like law, only to have that rule (potentially) found illegal AND unconstitutional?
The ONLY reason they offered FreeBR's is because of the rule they created.  

I have no clue how what they will do with this cluster fudge they created, neither does anyone else.

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Originally Posted By panthermark:
Originally Posted By Missilegeek:


Yeah it seems the ATF published a rule and issued form 1's. The forms are current and valid. To positively change or revoke that, it seems they would have to individually contact and legally serve notice to every person about every item. Otherwise you could just keep your signed form and ignore them.

Is there any historical precedent of takesies backsies on form 1's once they've been given out?

What would be so hard about contacting everyone that has FreeBR'd?  They have your physical and email address.

As for historical precedent, no.  
But has the ATF offered a Forbearance (not an amnesty) before?
Has the ATF ever created a rule they tried to treat like law, only to have that rule (potentially) found illegal AND unconstitutional?
The ONLY reason they offered FreeBR's is because of the rule they created.  

I have no clue how what they will do with this cluster fudge they created, neither does anyone else.



Ask debt collectors how easy it is to track down and contact/serve people you have the address for. And they are way more competent than the atf. People move, want to be left alone, don't answer the door... Email is usually not acceptable as legally served notice.
Link Posted: 1/16/2024 12:47:38 AM EDT
[#13]
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Originally Posted By panthermark:
But has the ATF offered a Forbearance (not an amnesty) before?
View Quote


I don't know what word you want to use, but legally owned semi-auto shotguns were found to be DD at one point... which ATF had the owners do a similar Form 1 (paper, as the eForms were not a thing), making them DDs. Original markings were kept, no stamp/tax collected.
Link Posted: 1/16/2024 10:13:04 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Missilegeek:


Ask debt collectors how easy it is to track down and contact/serve people you have the address for. And they are way more competent than the atf. People move, want to be left alone, don't answer the door... Email is usually not acceptable as legally served notice.
View Quote

When you found out your braced pistol was actually an illegal SBR, did the ATF knock on your door to serve you notice?  

When I found out my originally legal braced pistol turned illegal SBR is now a legal braced pistol, no one knocked on my door to update me.
Link Posted: 1/16/2024 10:23:42 AM EDT
[#15]
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Originally Posted By Screwball:


I don't know what word you want to use, but legally owned semi-auto shotguns were found to be DD at one point... which ATF had the owners do a similar Form 1 (paper, as the eForms were not a thing), making them DDs. Original markings were kept, no stamp/tax collected.
View Quote


Forbearance is the word repeatedly used in the this rule.
As for the Streetsweepers, the big difference here is that this went to court, and the ATF is currently losing.

Again, I have no clue as to what will happen, especially if/when the rule is found both illegal (procedural) and unconstitutional.   Seems like it could easily go either way.
 
Link Posted: 1/17/2024 3:35:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: EDL] [#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Screwball:


That’s not how it works…

But since you clearly have a law degree with extensive background in Federal firearms law… how about you show us code, regulation or even case law that supports your claim.

https://i.imgur.com/TBU0K8q.jpeg

Like §479.62, which clearly states that if an approval comes back tax exempt… an explanation why is attached to the Form 1. Also note that it is mentioned about the $200 tax/stamp being affixed, it starts with “if the making is taxable.”

https://i.imgur.com/wVnbKdJ.jpeg

Or §479.71, which clearly says that proof of registration is the approved Form 1. Doesn’t say a word about stamp, being not all approvals result in stamps being issued.

So, instead of telling us how “right” you are… how about you prove it.
View Quote


Chill out dude.  Everything is my fucking opinion at this point because we've never been down this path before. What yu posted is the rules as they pertain to the process prior to this forbearance/amnesty thing, which doesn't exactly follow those rules.  Nothing is going to be "proved" until it's over.  You're no more a lawyer than I am and if my opinion bothers you so much, then scroll the fuck on by.  

Patiently waiting for the final outcome, but to be sure IF we're required to reconfig back to pistol, I'll be the first to tell you "told you so."  If not, then fucking great.  I'll have a free non-engraved SBR.
Link Posted: 1/17/2024 10:12:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans] [#17]
After additional review, more BS removed by prebans
Link Posted: 1/17/2024 6:22:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans] [#18]
BS removed by prebans
Link Posted: 1/18/2024 12:13:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 1/21/2024 12:28:23 AM EDT
[#20]
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Originally Posted By JoshNC:


They absolutely will.
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Originally Posted By JoshNC:
Originally Posted By Polycop:
Hummmmm, an imported SP5, form 1 papered with HK as the manufacturer and no 922R parts with no engraving.  I'm guessing those guns are going to be worth some loot in the future.  Maybe....


They absolutely will.



Help me understand, why would the example sp5 be worth more than a standard one in the future?
Link Posted: 1/21/2024 9:23:36 AM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By richiecotite:



Help me understand, why would the example sp5 be worth more than a standard one in the future?
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Originally Posted By richiecotite:
Originally Posted By JoshNC:
Originally Posted By Polycop:
Hummmmm, an imported SP5, form 1 papered with HK as the manufacturer and no 922R parts with no engraving.  I'm guessing those guns are going to be worth some loot in the future.  Maybe....


They absolutely will.



Help me understand, why would the example sp5 be worth more than a standard one in the future?
No makers mark engraved on the receiver.  So when formed 4 to the new owner it will only have the original HK markings.
Link Posted: 1/21/2024 9:37:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer] [#22]
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Originally Posted By STJ:
No makers mark engraved on the receiver.  So when formed 4 to the new owner it will only have the original HK markings.
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Originally Posted By STJ:
Originally Posted By richiecotite:
Originally Posted By JoshNC:
Originally Posted By Polycop:
Hummmmm, an imported SP5, form 1 papered with HK as the manufacturer and no 922R parts with no engraving.  I'm guessing those guns are going to be worth some loot in the future.  Maybe....


They absolutely will.



Help me understand, why would the example sp5 be worth more than a standard one in the future?
No makers mark engraved on the receiver.  So when formed 4 to the new owner it will only have the original HK markings.

How does that work when transfered later?- does the new owner still have to engrave?  I think the answer is no, since it's about who "made" it, not who owns it.  Curious if the "with conditions" line transfers to the new owners papers.
Link Posted: 1/21/2024 11:46:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3-gun] [#23]
The with conditions remarks were the lack of tax, 922r. If it transfers under a form 4 a tax will be paid and no remarks are needed.
I believe some members here already did the freebr then transferred to a trust by form 4.
Link Posted: 1/21/2024 12:24:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
How does that work when transfered later?- does the new owner still have to engrave?
View Quote
No they don't.
Link Posted: 2/7/2024 1:39:57 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm not sure if this has been posted here but I sent in two of these "special" form 1's separated by a few days. The first one was approved after several months, but still crickets on the second.

I called the NFA Branch last week and they told me that all pending "special" form 1's are pending resolution of current court cases.
Link Posted: 2/8/2024 7:31:49 AM EDT
[#26]
A friend of mine just received his braced form 1 back that he did in May.
Link Posted: 2/10/2024 11:23:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kokopelli] [#27]
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Originally Posted By AZ_Raptor:
A friend of mine just received his braced form 1 back that he did in May.
View Quote


Like, within the last couple of days, like, or…?

My Feb. 4 submission is still pending, and I’ve had another paid SBR and an SBS approved since then.
Link Posted: 2/10/2024 11:40:29 PM EDT
[#28]
I haven’t see anyone get an approval since the injunction was issued.
People have called atf and were told they are on hold.
Maybe someone picked up from the wrong pile.
Link Posted: 2/11/2024 10:07:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AZ_Raptor] [#29]
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Originally Posted By kokopelli:
Like, within the last couple of days, like, or…?

My Feb1 submission is still pending, and I’ve had another paid SBR and an SBS approved since then.
View Quote

Submitted the last week of May. Approved the first week of February.
Link Posted: 2/11/2024 9:46:16 PM EDT
[#30]
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Originally Posted By AZ_Raptor:

Submitted the last week of May. Approved the first week of February.
View Quote


Dang. I guess they're back at it?
Link Posted: 3/14/2024 12:42:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Anyone else get an approval on an amnesty Form 1 lately?
Link Posted: 3/19/2024 9:15:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Nope.  I had to submit my form 1 on paper last June as I had a naming issue on my eform and it wasn’t sent back until after the amnesty period ended.   It was received the third week of June and haven’t had any movement on it.  

I have called once and they confirmed receipt and that it is pending, but I have zero visibility in when or if it gets approved until it comes in the mail.

Let’s hope they started approving them again.  This is the first I had heard since the injunction started.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TripleJ:
Anyone else get an approval on an amnesty Form 1 lately?
View Quote

Link Posted: 3/19/2024 11:20:05 AM EDT
[#33]
I had a similar scenario where I had to resubmit in paper after the period had ended. Still hoping that it will be approved.
Link Posted: 3/20/2024 11:13:17 PM EDT
[#34]
my third and final free brace sbr (which was denied back on 09/01/23 because I forgot to digitally sign it) that I mailed corrections on (09/07/23) was approved 11/06/23 and arrived via snail mail yesterday.
Link Posted: 3/21/2024 5:43:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Approved in November and just arrived in the mail four months later?  What is up with that?  Is your mail screwed up or did it take them that long to mail it?
Link Posted: 3/26/2024 12:03:34 AM EDT
[#36]
Huh, weird, I got my freeBR approval via email.
Link Posted: 3/26/2024 1:47:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 3/26/2024 9:17:11 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EDL:
Huh, weird, I got my freeBR approval via email.
View Quote
Snail maill will be for people who got their forms returned with errors and were told to file corrections by mail.
Link Posted: 3/29/2024 11:52:51 PM EDT
[#39]
Got'cha, makes sense I guess.
Link Posted: 3/31/2024 8:47:25 AM EDT
[#40]
YouTube told me there was a court decision and the atf was told they were wrong.   Things are going to get odd with these free short barreled rifles no longer being rifles.
Link Posted: 4/4/2024 1:29:13 PM EDT
[#41]
I have several lowers built from scratch, is it too late to register them as pistols and get a "free" stamp? I read through the first page and am still a little confused.

Sounds like 1/30/24 was the deadline but it might actually be 4/30/24
Link Posted: 4/4/2024 1:48:40 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By djkest:
is it too late to register them as pistols and get a "free" stamp?
View Quote


Yes
Link Posted: 4/4/2024 5:10:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By djkest:
I have several lowers built from scratch, is it too late to register them as pistols and get a "free" stamp? I read through the first page and am still a little confused.

Sounds like 1/30/24 was the deadline but it might actually be 4/30/24
View Quote


Deadline was May of last year.
Link Posted: 4/4/2024 5:59:16 PM EDT
[#44]
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Originally Posted By crazyelece:


Yes
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Originally Posted By crazyelece:
Originally Posted By djkest:
is it too late to register them as pistols and get a "free" stamp?


Yes

If you don’t have a form 1 by now, you’re probably going to have to pay $200 to get one.
Link Posted: 4/5/2024 2:38:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Screwball:


Why do people get so hung up on stamps? IT DOESN’T MATTER! Your approved Form 1 shows proof of registration. The conditions are why the tax was waved.

As mentioned, when those semi-auto shotguns were magically turned into DDs, no stamps were issued. What makes these Form 1s any different? SBRs on NFA registry.
View Quote



People love to argue, this post is exactly right.  Stop speculating, it's a waste of time and pages in this thread.
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