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Free SBR stamp? (Page 1 of 16)
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Posted: 1/30/2023 4:13:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dana]
So I am sure I have this wrong. But I was reading this web page by the Justice Dept published 01/13. It is about the pistol braces. Basicly it explains that using one makes it a SBR. Then it says owners have 120 days to register it TAX FREE. Can I take a 10.5" "pistol" and register it with out paying the $200 tax? Once it is "registered" will I be given a stamp same as my other SBRs or will I have a letter from ATF?  But once it is "registered" as a SBR couldn't I throw a stock on it like all my other SBRs?

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-new-rule-address-stabilizing-braces-accessories-used-convert

I have not been following all the pistol brace crap because I own SBRs. So I apologize if this has already been hashed out. And as always the government stuff is clear as mud.

Edit: just read it again. It really does call the "SBR". So I would think that after you register them tax free you would have a SBR. Let me paste the paragraph. Again if I am wrong I will accept that. Nothing the government does is logical. So I probably shouldn't try to apply logic.

"The rule goes into effect on the date of publication in the Federal Register. The rule allows for a 120-day period for manufacturers, dealers, and individuals to register tax-free any existing NFA short-barreled rifles covered by the rule. Other options including removing the stabilizing brace to return the firearm to a pistol or surrendering covered short-barreled rifles to ATF. Nothing in this rule bans stabilizing braces or the use of stabilizing braces on pistols".
EDIT: About a week ago i read over everything again. Now that i really see it all i am only going to register the two "pistols" I have already built up with a brace. I didnt get a chance to add them to my trust so i will just do it as a individual. When i first posted this i didnt really understand it all. But thank you for everyone's input.
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 4:21:46 PM EDT
[#1]
You can register it for free using the separate "final rule" portal and once approved put a stock on it.
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 5:01:05 PM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By NoveskeFan:
You can register it for free using the separate "final rule" portal and once approved put a stock on it.
View Quote


So is this essential a opertunity for a free form 1?

I did just realize this would probably only work for AR recivers or other guns that are manufactured pistols. Not for a gun manufactured as a rifle that I want to SBR. I never really put much thought into a brace. But would imagine you could only legally put a brace on a pistol. I guess if you took the stock off a factory Remington 700, added a brace, cut the barrel downtown 10" it would not fly. Just using that as a example.
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 5:19:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NoveskeFan] [#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dana:


So is this essential a opertunity for a free form 1?

I did just realize this would probably only work for AR recivers or other guns that are manufactured pistols. Not for a gun manufactured as a rifle that I want to SBR. I never really put much thought into a brace. But would imagine you could only legally put a brace on a pistol. I guess if you took the stock off a factory Remington 700, added a brace, cut the barrel downtown 10" it would not fly. Just using that as a example.
View Quote


My understanding is that a "rifle is a rifle" and can't be made into a pistol so it wouldn't pass if the firearm was originally a rifle, which would probably require the ATF checking the serial number with the original manufacturer or 4473 for transferred configuration...which at that point, your probably already in deep trouble
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 5:21:30 PM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By dana:
So is this essential a opportunity for a free form 1?
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Originally Posted By dana:
So is this essential a opportunity for a free form 1?
Yes, for everything that didn't leave the factory as a rifle.
(So pistols and receivers you've built.)

Today is the last day to go get them, or obtain a brace for them.
It's also the last day you can add the pistols to a trust (if you want the resultant SBR registered to a trust).

Tomorrow the braces will officially become stocks, and there's a 120 day window to apply for free registration for any of that (braced) stuff.

I did just realize this would probably only work for AR recivers or other guns that are manufactured pistols. Not for a gun manufactured as a rifle that I want to SBR. I never really put much thought into a brace. But would imagine you could only legally put a brace on a pistol. I guess if you took the stock off a factory Remington 700, added a brace, cut the barrel downtown 10" it would not fly. Just using that as an example.
Putting a brace on a gun that was already a rifle is immaterial to ATF's ruling so they don't want any factory rifles registered tax free. It's assumed they'll disapprove those, but you can try if you want.

What you're describing with the R700 is a "weapon made from a rifle" which is not a scenario covered by the 120 day tax forbearance.

The assumption is that you've got braced pistols, or "constructive possession" of braces + pistol receivers they'll fit on, with a short barrel. They're not actually requiring anyone to prove what they've got (except for trusts needing it documented). No pics.

The "perks" are no tax and no additional engraving (if it's got all the Title I engraving already).
You're supposed to already be in possession of whatever you intend to register by tomorrow.
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 5:28:44 PM EDT
[#5]
I just talked to an individual that wanted to "get a free SBR" by registering their AR pistol.  They said that they cannot log onto the ATF website to complete the process.
Also, the above statement was the first I've heard of not having to engrave your AR pistol once registration is complete.
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 5:39:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NoveskeFan:


My understanding is that a "rifle is a rifle" and can't be made into a pistol so it wouldn't pass if the firearm was originally a rifle, which would probably require the ATF checking the serial number with the original manufacturer or 4473 for transferred configuration...which at that point, your probably already in deep trouble
View Quote


That is also my understanding. It has been so long since I did any of my paperwork for all my stamps I forget sometimes. Also I get ahead of myself when I see things.
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 5:40:39 PM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By Wandell:
I just talked to an individual that wanted to "get a free SBR" by registering their AR pistol.  They said that they cannot log onto the ATF website to complete the process.
Also, the above statement was the first I've heard of not having to engrave your AR pistol once registration is complete.
View Quote

Well it would be convenient if the government web page was broken for the next 120 days
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 5:46:54 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Yes, for everything that didn't leave the factory as a rifle.
(So pistols and receivers you've built.)

Today is the last day to go get them, or obtain a brace for them.
It's also the last day you can add the pistols to a trust (if you want the resultant SBR registered to a trust).

Tomorrow the braces will officially become stocks, and there's a 120 day window to apply for free registration for any of that (braced) stuff.

Putting a brace on a gun that was already a rifle is immaterial to ATF's ruling so they don't want any factory rifles registered tax free. It's assumed they'll disapprove those, but you can try if you want.

What you're describing with the R700 is a "weapon made from a rifle" which is not a scenario covered by the 120 day tax forbearance.

The assumption is that you've got braced pistols, or "constructive possession" of braces + pistol receivers they'll fit on, with a short barrel. They're not actually requiring anyone to prove what they've got (except for trusts needing it documented). No pics.

The "perks" are no tax and no additional engraving (if it's got all the Title I engraving already).
You're supposed to already be in possession of whatever you intend to register by tomorrow.
View Quote


Thanks, that's some really good info. I guess I really got ahead of myself. But I do have a few items that could be registered.

One question. What do you mean but last day to transfer into the trust? What documents would I need to show something is owned by my trust other than adding it to the schedule A?  

For example my LMT SBR is now owned by the trust.  But it was owned by me. I added it to the Schedule A. Then it was owned by the trust. That easy, ithink
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 7:22:15 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By dana:
One question. What do you mean but last day to transfer into the trust?
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Originally Posted By dana:
One question. What do you mean but last day to transfer into the trust?
ATF has said it needs to be owned by the trust prior to their final rule being published in the Federal Register. That's expected to happen tomorrow. It's already on the online version today.

What documents would I need to show something is owned by my trust other than adding it to the schedule A?
Just the normal documents. For your trust, that's apparently Schedule A. For other trusts, it's an Assignment page.
There are differing opinions on whether the page listing the pistols/receivers has to be notarized, but I don't think ATF can change that process and require notarization when it wasn't previously required.

Of course the original trust document(s) should have been notarized whenever the trust was created, and they need to be included whenever you register/transfer anything to a trust. (That's nothing new either.)

For example my LMT SBR is now owned by the trust.  But it was owned by me. I added it to the Schedule A. Then it was owned by the trust. That easy, ithink
Right. Same old stuff. You're just adding Title I pistols/receivers upfront. Then when your registration comes back approved, they're legal SBRs.

If registering to you as an individual, you needn't provide any documentation. (You're still supposed to "already be in possession" of it by tomorrow however).
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 7:53:05 PM EDT
[#10]
So let me get this straight.  I have a KAC stripped lower in my safe.  Purchased it as a stripped lower several years.  I can register this under this new rule, no $200 fee, as an SBR and then when approved put any stock on it when I build it up?
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 8:15:04 PM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By AR_Shorty:
So let me get this straight.  I have a KAC stripped lower in my safe.  Purchased it as a stripped lower several years.  I can register this under this new rule, no $200 fee, as an SBR and then when approved put any stock on it when I build it up?
View Quote
Theoretically only if you grab a brace and <16" upper that'll fit it tonight. Or maybe you already have those things.
Is ATF going to want a photo later? I think not.
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 8:35:50 PM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By AR_Shorty:
So let me get this straight.  I have a KAC stripped lower in my safe.  Purchased it as a stripped lower several years.  I can register this under this new rule, no $200 fee, as an SBR and then when approved put any stock on it when I build it up?
View Quote


On the "special" form for the tax-free registration, you check a box that affirms you possess a braced pistol with a barrel less than 16" prior to the publishing date, which is Jan 31 by all indications. No pic of the firearm is required. No engraving is required. You are considered in compliance once you file the form and get your cover letter back. When approved, it's an SBR and you can put on a stock and whatever other dangles you desire.
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 8:41:38 PM EDT
[#13]
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Originally Posted By HammerTech:


On the "special" form for the tax-free registration, you check a box that affirms you possess a braced pistol with a barrel less than 16" prior to the publishing date, which is Jan 31 by all indications. No pic of the firearm is required. No engraving is required. You are considered in compliance once you file the form and get your cover letter back. When approved, it's an SBR and you can put on a stock and whatever other dangles you desire.
View Quote

Yep. It's fairly straightforward. As long as the firearms has a brace, a barrel under 16" and you own it today, you qualify to skip paying for the stamp.

Want a Glock SBR, fab a brace from some cardboard and zip ties before you go to bed tonight.
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 8:46:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AR_Shorty] [#14]
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Theoretically only if you grab a brace and <16" upper that'll fit it tonight. Or maybe you already have those things.
Is ATF going to want a photo later? I think not.
View Quote


Well I know I have a 10.5" KAC upper that is just sitting in the safe as well.  I'm sure I have a brace as well.

I'm assuming this special registration follows the normal process of requiring fingerprints, CLEO notification, etc?
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 8:53:13 PM EDT
[#15]
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Originally Posted By AR_Shorty:


Well I know I have a 10.5" KAC upper that is just sitting in the safe as well.  I'm sure I have a brace as well.

I'm assuming this special registration follows the normal process of requiring fingerprints, CLEO notification, etc?
View Quote

Yes. They setup a separate part of the eforms website. You fill it out like a regular efile. It does SBR's only. You can upload electronic fingerprints or mail them after you get the email notification.
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 9:07:35 PM EDT
[#16]
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Originally Posted By AR_Shorty:


Well I know I have a 10.5" KAC upper that is just sitting in the safe as well.  I'm sure I have a brace as well.

I'm assuming this special registration follows the normal process of requiring fingerprints, CLEO notification, etc?
View Quote



Its been a LOOONG time since i did a SBR or SBS. How does the CLEO part work?
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 9:09:41 PM EDT
[#17]
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Originally Posted By dana:



Its been a LOOONG time since i did a SBR or SBS. How does the CLEO part work?
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When you efile they email you a copy of the form in triplicate. The last three pages of the pdf are marked CLEO copy. You print the last three, put them in an envelope and mail them to the listed CLEO. Nothing further is required.
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 10:19:52 PM EDT
[#18]
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost:

When you efile they email you a copy of the form in triplicate. The last three pages of the pdf are marked CLEO copy. You print the last three, put them in an envelope and mail them to the listed CLEO. Nothing further is required.
View Quote

Nice. I think I should do a few AR pistols and my G17 I have
Link Posted: 1/30/2023 10:30:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Register you say?
Link Posted: 1/31/2023 9:56:00 AM EDT
[#20]
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Originally Posted By Oldgold:
Register you say?
View Quote



I know, I am already on THE list with the man.
Link Posted: 1/31/2023 7:02:49 PM EDT
[#21]
So, if you file using the special portal, ATF will email you the submitted form1 so you can print it and give the CLEO their copy. Right?
I filled on the eForm1 on the portal but it is not showing on my normal eform account as a  submitted Form1.
Link Posted: 1/31/2023 7:09:00 PM EDT
[#22]
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Originally Posted By StevenE:
So, if you file using the special portal, ATF will email you the submitted form1 so you can print it and give the CLEO their copy. Right?
I filled on the eForm1 on the portal but it is not showing on my normal eform account as a  submitted Form1.
View Quote

Yes. You should get an email within a few hours. I think their website is a bit busy today and they're experiencing some backlogs.
Link Posted: 1/31/2023 8:06:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Can one set of fingerprints be used for all the sbr/brace submissions a person registers?
Link Posted: 1/31/2023 8:57:40 PM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By seabass25:
Can one set of fingerprints be used for all the sbr/brace submissions a person registers?
View Quote

In the past ATF has accepted one set of fingerprints for each packet of cover letters.
Link Posted: 1/31/2023 8:57:56 PM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By seabass25:
Can one set of fingerprints be used for all the sbr/brace submissions a person registers?
View Quote


Sure. Put all the cover letters in with the one set of fingerprints. But then, if they lose that one envelope, you would be SOL on all of them. Do you feel lucky?
Link Posted: 1/31/2023 9:29:12 PM EDT
[#26]
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Theoretically only if you grab a brace and <16" upper that'll fit it tonight. Or maybe you already have those things.
Is ATF going to want a photo later? I think not.
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Originally Posted By AR_Shorty:
So let me get this straight.  I have a KAC stripped lower in my safe.  Purchased it as a stripped lower several years.  I can register this under this new rule, no $200 fee, as an SBR and then when approved put any stock on it when I build it up?
Theoretically only if you grab a brace and <16" upper that'll fit it tonight. Or maybe you already have those things.
Is ATF going to want a photo later? I think not.


Having started the process, ATF wants pictures of all the markings with the form, however there was no mention of a picture of the whole firearm.
Link Posted: 1/31/2023 9:48:32 PM EDT
[#27]
So what happens if i decide I want to sell my firearm? Does it need to be transferred or is it void when removed from that reciever?

Link Posted: 1/31/2023 9:53:15 PM EDT
[#28]
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Originally Posted By Chinook3:
So what happens if i decide I want to sell my firearm? Does it need to be transferred or is it void when removed from that reciever?

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If you configure your SBR into a non-NFA configuration you can sell it normally. It is advisable to notify the ATF it is no longer in NFA configuration and needs to be removed from the registry.

If you sell it in a NFA configuration there is a F4 and $200 transfer stamp that need done.

Most people don't sell used SBR's. We just reconfigure them and skip paying for more stamps.
Link Posted: 1/31/2023 10:04:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Thank You!!
Link Posted: 2/1/2023 8:55:25 PM EDT
[#30]
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Originally Posted By Oldgold:
Register you say?
View Quote

Link Posted: 2/2/2023 7:57:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5thLegion] [#31]
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost:

Yes. They setup a separate part of the eforms website. You fill it out like a regular efile. It does SBR's only. You can upload electronic fingerprints or mail them after you get the email notification.
View Quote


Related question: so how long does it usually take to get that email from when you click sign on the eform? Immediately, next day or is there a normal flash to bang there? It’s been a couple of hours on one I dropped today. I ask as I’m tracking you must mail your finger prints within 10 days of receiving the email.
Link Posted: 2/2/2023 8:10:14 PM EDT
[#32]
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Originally Posted By NoveskeFan:
You can register it for free using the separate "final rule" portal and once approved put a stock on it.
View Quote



Then you are arrested and prosecuted for illegally manufacturing a rifle from a pistol.  The "rule" will not limit your exposure to the law...
Link Posted: 2/2/2023 8:44:15 PM EDT
[#33]
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Originally Posted By RichinCM:



Then you are arrested and prosecuted for illegally manufacturing a rifle from a pistol.  The "rule" will not limit your exposure to the law...
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Originally Posted By RichinCM:
Originally Posted By NoveskeFan:
You can register it for free using the separate "final rule" portal and once approved put a stock on it.



Then you are arrested and prosecuted for illegally manufacturing a rifle from a pistol.  The "rule" will not limit your exposure to the law...

Once you have registered a braced pistol as a SBR AND after you have your approved Form 1 in your possession, then you can legally swap the brace for a stock. This is legal because you are now in possession of a registered SBR (short barreled RIFLE).

Attachment Attached File


https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download

It is quite legal to change a pistol into a rifle with a 16" or longer barrel. Not only that but it is one of the ways to comply with the new brace rule.

And it has always been legal to change a pistol into a rifle and back into a pistol since the US Vs Thompson case as long as the assembled firearm is in a legal configuration.


Link Posted: 2/2/2023 9:03:17 PM EDT
[#34]
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Originally Posted By 5thLegion:


Related question: so how long does it usually take to get that email from when you click sign on the eform? Immediately, next day or is there a normal flash to bang there? It's been a couple of hours on one I dropped today. I ask as I'm tracking you must mail your finger prints within 10 days of receiving the email.
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If things are slow, you normally have it in fifteen minutes. With the number of forms going through right now it's four to eight hours before you get the email.
Link Posted: 2/2/2023 9:05:43 PM EDT
[#35]
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Originally Posted By RichinCM:



Then you are arrested and prosecuted for illegally manufacturing a rifle from a pistol.  The "rule" will not limit your exposure to the law...
View Quote

That's not how this works.

Once you are approved you can put a stock on your pistol. If you want to go back to a pistol, pop the stock off and go on with life. As long as you keep your proof of registration you can go back and forth as you please.
Link Posted: 2/2/2023 9:21:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Does anyone have a link to the atf page I need to go to? Also anyone have the finger print card link? I assume that if I need to mail in a packet I should do fingerprints on a hard copie so I can mail it all in.
Link Posted: 2/2/2023 9:28:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jaqufrost] [#37]
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Originally Posted By dana:
Does anyone have a link to the atf page I need to go to? Also anyone have the finger print card link? I assume that if I need to mail in a packet I should do fingerprints on a hard copie so I can mail it all in.
View Quote

If you want to file an F1 on the tax forbearance page, use this link:
https://eforms-form1.atf.gov/login

If you get an EFT of your fingerprints you can upload it directly while working on the form.

If you don't upload fingerprints they will email you a form to put with your two sets of fingerprints. You have ten days to submit the prints.

If you want to take your own fingerprints, you can order blank fingerprint cards from the ATF at this link:
https://www.atf.gov/distribution-center-order-form
Link Posted: 2/3/2023 8:02:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: arlance] [#38]
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Originally Posted By chumpmiester:

Once you have registered a braced pistol as a SBR AND after you have your approved Form 1 in your possession, then you can legally swap the brace for a stock. This is legal because you are now in possession of a registered SBR (short barreled RIFLE).

View Quote

That part doesn't make sense to me.  On 1/31 your pistol braced firearm automatically became an unregistered SBR.  But you are given 120 day's to take action, one of which is to start the registration process.  So at this point after filing the Form 1, why has the ATF noted that you have to wait until your Form 1 is approved before swapping to a stock?  I mean it's an unregistered SBR either way right?

From page 6498 of the Federal Registry

"Provided the registration form is properly submitted and documented within the defined time period, the Department will consider individuals and entities to be in compliance with the statutory requirements between the date on which a person’s application is filed and the date a person receives ATF approval or disapproval of the application".
Link Posted: 2/3/2023 10:13:11 PM EDT
[#39]
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Originally Posted By arlance:

That part doesn't make sense to me.  On 1/31 your pistol braced firearm automatically became an unregistered SBR.  But you are given 120 day's to take action, one of which is to start the registration process.  So at this point after filing the Form 1, why has the ATF noted that you have to wait until your Form 1 is approved before swapping to a stock?  I mean it's an unregistered SBR either way right?

From page 6498 of the Federal Registry

"Provided the registration form is properly submitted and documented within the defined time period, the Department will consider individuals and entities to be in compliance with the statutory requirements between the date on which a person's application is filed and the date a person receives ATF approval or disapproval of the application".
View Quote
Yes, either way, technically, it is an unregistered SBR.  HOWEVER - you are seeking to make it legal.  It will be LEGAL once the Form1 has been approved.  Otherwise, as stated, it should remain in it's current configuration.

Also, stated, is that after approval, you can add whatever flavor "buffer tube cover" you desire - brace, stock, blah, blah...
Link Posted: 2/3/2023 11:49:22 PM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By arlance:

That part doesn't make sense to me.  On 1/31 your pistol braced firearm automatically became an unregistered SBR.  But you are given 120 day's to take action, one of which is to start the registration process.  So at this point after filing the Form 1, why has the ATF noted that you have to wait until your Form 1 is approved before swapping to a stock?  I mean it's an unregistered SBR either way right?

From page 6498 of the Federal Registry

"Provided the registration form is properly submitted and documented within the defined time period, the Department will consider individuals and entities to be in compliance with the statutory requirements between the date on which a person's application is filed and the date a person receives ATF approval or disapproval of the application".
View Quote

As stated, you need to leave your braced pistol aka SBR in its current configuration - with a brace installed until you get your approved Form 1 back. Any NFA regulated firearm is not registered until the Form 1 is approved.

And as the Brace FAQ's state, Once your SBR is registered - Form 1 is approved, then you can swap out the brace and buffer tube for what ever type of stock and buffer tube you want.

This is really no different than making a SBR out of a pistol or Title 1 rifle. With each, you can not assemble/make the SBR until you have received your approved Form 1 back from the ATF with tax stamp.

Examples:

If you want to turn a pistol into a SBR, you can NOT install any type of stock until after you  get your approved Form 1 back.

If you are making a SBR from a Title 1 rifle, you can NOT install a barrel less than 16" until you get your approved Form 1 back.

In the case of braced pistols that are now considered SBR's, the ATF has stated that you can keep it in your possession with brace installed while waiting for your Form 1 to be approved as long as you file your Form 1 within the 120 grace period.

If you are familiar with the NFA laws and regulations then this should not be hard to understand.
Link Posted: 2/4/2023 12:56:41 AM EDT
[#41]
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Originally Posted By chumpmiester:

As stated, you need to leave your braced pistol aka SBR in its current configuration - with a brace installed until you get your approved Form 1 back. Any NFA regulated firearm is not registered until the Form 1 is approved.

And as the Brace FAQ's state, Once your SBR is registered - Form 1 is approved, then you can swap out the brace and buffer tube for what ever type of stock and buffer tube you want.

If you are familiar with the NFA laws and regulations then this should not be hard to understand.
View Quote

I get all of that.  I am very familiar with NFA laws.  I've been an SOT holder for over 10 years.  I was just tying to point out there is a difference in the what the ATF might place in a FAQ vs what is stated in an actual filed legal regulation.  When things are challenged in a court of law, they don't refer to FAQ's or what the ATF "said".  It all boils down to actual regulations.  BUT with that said, there is this sentence in the recorded regulation that I found may back up what you are saying:

"However, so long as an affected individual submits an E-Form 1 application by May 31, 2023, the Department will, in its enforcement discretion, allow these persons to temporarily possess their firearms equipped with ‘‘stabilizing braces’’ that are unregistered short-barreled rifles until they receive a response from ATF on their application. "

And then there is this:

"Any person in possession of a short-barreled rifle for which an EForm 1 or E-Form 2 has not been submitted to ATF within the defined time period will be in violation of the NFA, and ATF may take enforcement action."

There is a lot of ambiguous language in the 98 pages of the filing.

Link Posted: 2/4/2023 1:21:07 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By arlance:

There is a lot of ambiguous language in the 98 pages of the filing.

View Quote
They kinda wanna define us as criminals by utilizing the term purposeful intent .

Yet, when you flip the script, we could easily call them criminals by their utilization of vague, ambiguous language in their doctrine.

It all comes down to one giant pissing match.  He with the biggest dick, wins.
Link Posted: 2/4/2023 2:10:16 AM EDT
[#43]
If someone is already in the nfa game. .. what’s the negative to this?
Link Posted: 2/4/2023 2:15:27 AM EDT
[#44]
Paying for fingerprints.


I have a sizeable NFA collection so I submitted 27 forms...
Link Posted: 2/4/2023 2:17:53 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ajclune:
If someone is already in the nfa game. .. what’s the negative to this?
View Quote

Do you mean if you are an individual/trust already having registered NFA items?  If so, no negative in my opinion.
Link Posted: 2/4/2023 3:58:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Yes someone with suppressor and/or sbr already…
Link Posted: 2/4/2023 4:41:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Paying for fingerprints.


I have a sizeable NFA collection so I submitted 27 forms...
View Quote



You did this under the new ruling?

That’s a lot of F1’s

I’m tempted to do a couple more but I’m still debating if I want to do it or not.
Link Posted: 2/4/2023 4:55:38 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By arlance:

I get all of that.  I am very familiar with NFA laws.  I've been an SOT holder for over 10 years.  I was just tying to point out there is a difference in the what the ATF might place in a FAQ vs what is stated in an actual filed legal regulation.  When things are challenged in a court of law, they don't refer to FAQ's or what the ATF "said".  It all boils down to actual regulations.  BUT with that said, there is this sentence in the recorded regulation that I found may back up what you are saying:

"However, so long as an affected individual submits an E-Form 1 application by May 31, 2023, the Department will, in its enforcement discretion, allow these persons to temporarily possess their firearms equipped with ‘‘stabilizing braces’’ that are unregistered short-barreled rifles until they receive a response from ATF on their application. "

And then there is this:

"Any person in possession of a short-barreled rifle for which an EForm 1 or E-Form 2 has not been submitted to ATF within the defined time period will be in violation of the NFA, and ATF may take enforcement action."

There is a lot of ambiguous language in the 98 pages of the filing.
View Quote


So you should be familiar with the way previous reclassifications were handled, and what happened to those who elected to register their weapons during a tax-free registration period.

There is nothing ambiguous or new in any of this wording.

As an SOT, how does this affect you?
Link Posted: 2/4/2023 5:22:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Firestarter123:



You did this under the new ruling?

That's a lot of F1's

I'm tempted to do a couple more but I'm still debating if I want to do it or not.
View Quote

I see no reason to pay extra taxes.

This has been two years in the making, so I've been collecting braced pistols for two years and waiting for ATF to announce the tax free registration.

I also believe our best chance of getting SBR's tossed from the registry is to get the number of registered SBR's up and use it to claim they're in common use and can't be part of the NFA. I don't give it the best odds, but this ruling has given us a better chance than ever before.
Link Posted: 2/4/2023 7:45:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:


I also believe our best chance of getting SBR's tossed from the registry is to get the number of registered SBR's up and use it to claim they're in common use and can't be part of the NFA. I don't give it the best odds, but this ruling has given us a better chance than ever before.
View Quote


There are currently more braced "pistols" in America than there will ever be registered SBRs. If anything is common use, it is braced pistols. Doesn't seem to constitute common use to anyone who cares.
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