I have been following these forums and other MG boards for awhile now and I plan on getting my 1st MG. I have suppressors already so NFA isn’t completely new to me. My question for you guys is should I get a M11/9 as my first gun? I have been saving and will have enough money next month for one. I ultimately want to get a M16 RDIAS next. Should I continue saving for the RDIAS instead of buying the M11/9? I am going to get a nice bonus from my job at the end of the year that will put me pretty close to a RDIAS if I don’t buy the M11/9.

I foresee the M11/9 going up in value due the the Lage11/15 upper so I think it will be a good investment to buy before the price jump. Plus I want a dedicated SMG. If I get the M11/9 now then it will probably be next summer before I can buy the RDIAS.

What would you guys do?

get the DIAS....  a m11/m10 platform is fun, but gets old quick......  IMHO

Have you considered a non-colt RR? You can pick one up for $20k and an M11/9 for $7k and save yourself thousands of dollars.

I have been contemplating just getting a RR M16 but I like the idea of having a machine gun that is virtually indestructible and can make “new” ones out of any lower. To me the extra $15k for the RDIAS would be worth it. Plus it opens up different hosts such as the CMMG Guard or Colt 901. I just wish I got into the MG game earlier instead of buying full semi-automatic rifles.

First post nailed the hell out of it. And for what it's worth, we ALL either wish we done it sooner or kept what we bought way back when.

You can really even compare the two, the RDIAs is the obvious choice if you have the money.
You could go m16 RR and M11, For the price of a RDIAS.

Whatever you decide the longer you wait the more you will pay.

Had an M11/9 with Lage upper and 22 conversion. The fun factor wore out pretty quick. Sold it off for NODs, some guns and other stuff. Haven't regretted it once. save for the DIAS.

I personally would prefer a RDIAS over a RR if money wasn't an issue. The ability to shoot 308 with the 901 is a big bonus that RR owners don't have, it puts the RDIAS on par with a HK sear IMO. If you're Into belt Feds you can use a custom lower without the magwell with a shrike which lightens up the platform and lets the nut sack sit higher. If all of that is worth $15k get the RDIAS.

I wish I could afford one but even if I sold my RR and M11/9 I would still need to find another $10k for the difference

If you’ve decided that you will own both at some point, and it’s just a matter of which one comes first, I’d go M11 and then RDIAS because it seems that M11 prices are moving a touch quicker.

Are they really that much more now? Wow, that's crazy. M16>M10/11 for sure, I honestly dont think the lower takes enough abuse to justify 15k more for just piece of mind really unless the reason is more just so you can switch around lowers. Someone mentioned being able to shoot 308 but I definitely dont see myself spending 15k more so I can mag dump 308

That being said, if youre going to get the M11 get it now, I think most of the Lage "price bump" is built in to today's pricing but if people like the new upper (I think the wait list for it is over 1000) price may jump again

Just another opinion....I sold an m10 to get my colt M16A1.  Well worth it and I’d do it again.  If the M16 is in the realm of possibilities it’s a no brainer.  If it’s not possible then sure a m10 or m11/9 isn’t bad.

Oh and having both is good too, but the M16 would be priority.

I’d also add, Once you get the M16/9 dialed in, its a more enjoyable smg than than the Mac.  Takes some work though.

I went with the RLL you can have multiple host set up to run.
All my host were SBR not needed but safer.
And I installed m modified selectors for semi & full.
Link is very durable with re -inforcer installed.
Only down side is no .22 I just used my mac10 for that.
Big plus now is you can go 308 Platt form

I sold my RLL to help daughter get a house

If you need selector setups have 3 sets

I have a M11/9 and am considering selling it after the Max-11/15 comes out and getting a M16 RR, if I can find one I can afford.

If I had both I doubt I'd ever touch the M11/9 again.

M11 is still fun, but I dont see people with a RR buying a M11 to shoot 556 (Max-11/15) obviously. I like the small M11/M10 package though, its fun

M11/9 Is awesome and a lot of fun, but if you can swing the RDIAS, it's a no brainer. Wish I could afford one, but I am glad I bought my M11/9 on the "dip" in 2010 when I did. But yeah, I see M11/9 prices spiking again when the Lage 556 upper hits the ground. It'll be a pretty versatile package.

THIS.  Even if my M11 ran, I haven't' touched it in yearrrrrsssss.

The two guns couldn't be more different (unless we're focusing on the M11/9 + Max11/15.) The deciding factor is price though, obviously. $10k (M11 + Max11/15) vs $40k (RDIAS + host.) In theory an M11/15 should be comparable to a RR or even RDIAS or RLL. The experience will be more or less the same. Parts interchangability should be more or less the same. Form factor and versatility should be more or less the same. In all of the aforementioned considerations a RR or RDIAS would likely win out (a RLL is debateable IMO), so the question becomes is the RR or RDIAS worth the $10k to $30k premium TO YOU? To me it isn't, but to you it may be.

There are many posts of folks with a RR getting on the Lage waitlist for the Max11/15. A buddy with a Colt RR is one of them.

I find this baffling.

With how expensive the upper will be I can't imagine why someone who already has a vastly superior 5.56 MG would bother at all, other than maybe to increase the value of their M11/9.

I find it pretty easy to understand. Individuals with an M11 and RR/RDIAS/RLL already have a demonstrated interest in a 5.56 platform. They also largely consist of those would have spent a sizeable amount on NFA gear (barring those who bought their transferable decades back.) Another $3,000~ is relatively little to obtain another 5.56 caliber transferable alongside their existing F/A AR. Be it for novelty sake, diversity sake, investment purposes or merely because our hobby consists of accumulating way more guns/accessories/parts than any of use actually need, it's easy to see why one might buy the upper.

Another thought about why owners of RR/DIAS would buy the Max11/15 would be what most machinegun owners want, "options". Most MG owners buy with a specific caliber in mind and then look at the possibilities of caliber changes for that platform. You buy a subgun to shoot pistol calibers. You buy an M-16 or like platform to shoot rifle calibers. The M-16 being the leggo of machineguns offers the most versatility for caliber changes, rifle and pistol, more than any other platform. HK sears being a close second. Subguns are mostly relegated to pistol calibers such as 9mm, .22lr, and .45acp with only a few models with the capability of swapping calibers such as the Uzi, Mac, BRP units. I think recent pricing in these areas reflects that. This new upper from Lage offers something Mac owners thought they would never have, sans now deceased AA/Sabre, a rifle caliber conversion. People who cannot afford a RR/DIAS can move into rifle caliber territory for around 3K, if that is the price.

As for understanding why people who own both RR and Macs who want to buy this upper, myself being one of them, it affords you options. Some people get bored with their particular style of MG and want a change. They sell and move on to another platform. You could sell either one of these and still shoot a rifle caliber. If need to sell either for financial reasons you can still shoot rifle caliber. "Options" are a wonderful thing.

To the OP, it's an exciting time, although expensive, to be an MG owner. If I could swing the DIAS, no doubt that is where I would go. If not, the evolution of the Mac is just getting into high gear.

Cajun gets it ^

I would go with RDIAS.
I also have RR but I tend to baby it... I would go with DIAS or LL.

I guess I'm going to go against a lot of people here and say buy the m11/9 and then buy a registered receiver later when you can afford it. You end up with two registered machineguns instead of one and personally I really like the subguns. I will say I have the m10/45 instead of a m11 but I also have a colt m16a2. Honestly I shoot the m10 with a lage upper more than the m16. The lage uppers really change the guns in such a good way. I honestly kinda wish I would have found a sendra bushmaster m16 lower when I bought the colt and bought another mac with the price difference.

I've got both registered receiver and M11/Nine and I'd buy the M11/Nine first. You can try the Lage Max11-15 and it might do what you want for quite a bit less than a RR or RDIAS. I handled a prototype of the Max11-15 at the SAR Show and it feels great.

I enjoy shooting full auto rifle caliber stuff but not nearly as much as I enjoy 9mm. Subguns are just a hoot. I can do 72 round drum dumps for relatively cheap $ with the Lage Max31 upper and compete in subgun matches. A number of indoor ranges are cool with me shooting 9mm in FA but wouldn't go for FA 5.56.

The ARFCOM way is to recommend both but if I could only get one now, I'd go with the M11/Nine as I see the prices rising quite a bit when the Max11-15 upper is out in the wild.

That's a huge price range difference. If you have the money by all means get the RDIAS, it's awesome!! But if you're poor, go for the M11/9, it's super cheap, but far from my favorite machine gun.

Seems like the overwhelming suggestion is the M11/9 and then a M16 RR afterwards.

Any interest or suggestions on a HK sear? Figured I'd muddy the waters with that suggestion.

Thanks for all the input guys. I know put a big gap price wise on the 2 choices. I think an RDIAS would be better, but like others said I could get a RR M16 and a M11/9 for cheaper. I actually have the money already for a M11/9, but looking at the other thread posted here a lot of vendors are sold out. I would love an HK sear or even an FNC sear, but I think the M16 is more versatile. I have 2 Zenith MP5s which are amazing suppressed. I might just get the binary trigger for them to scratch that itch.

Like other people said I think I will get more enjoyment out of subguns. I think down the road I might pick up an UZI or S&W 76 after I get my M16 of course.

I own both an M11/9 and S&W 76. What are you looking for in a subgun, specifically?

The m16 is going to be the most versatile option(well a rdias for one).

For subguns it depends on what you want. For me the Mac has a lot of parts available and active work being done to the platform. As far as finding a m11/9 they are out there. I pointed someone in another form to a vendor that had 3 in stock. One was new in box and had a premium that I personally would avoid as I'm shooting the damn thing if I get it. Another came with the lage upper and was refinished in burnt bronze with a 3 lug installed on the barrel by tsc machine. I actually held it in person before the dealer who had it done did and it came out good(he had tsc machine do it after seeing a m10 they did for me in od green). I think the guy in the other thread bought the third one he had.

In that thread I believe a few dealers had some incoming so you could get on their list.

For a subgun I would like one that is fun suppressed. I’m not too picky. I like the support that Lage offers for the Macs. BWE is making parts for the S&W 76 so that has good support too. I’ll probably get a M11/9 first

The S&W 76 has a neat history but the trigger is awful—heavy as a brick. I sold my tool room gun and picked up a port said Egyptian version of the Swedish k and for a tube gun, it’s a dream. I like the Sten too. The M11/Nine is just crazy versatile and I’d strongly recommend it as a first MG.

They're both great suppressed. I'd definitely give the upper hand to the S&W 76. It's a higher ROF, which generally (and especially in the case of the S&W 76) means smoother. It's a tightly built gun with the ejection port and suppressor far forward so it's perceived as quieter and less gassy.

Do you want versatility? The M11 has more options than any transferable after the AR family and HK sears. Max11, Max 31, M11/22, soon the Max11/15, plus a plethora of other setups developed over the years like the Amp 11, Sabre, Task conversions, magwell conversions etc. But not everyone wants versatility. I know I did with my first subgun hence the M11, but with my second I wanted the smoothness and history of the S&W 76. And on that last point it has a rich history. It represents American ingenuity by one of america's oldest firearms manufacturers to meet the needs of special forces during the Vietnam war. I think that's incredibly cool, even if few saw actual service in the field. If you'd like to learn more about their early development by S&W see my thread HERE.

Parts availability is very limited though. Fortunately they are simple and rugged and I've read of perhaps one or two people who actually experienced a serious failure with their S&W 76 (extractors are the only weak component that tend to fail, and even there I think it's exaggerated.)

I agree the trigger is noticeably heavier than other open bolt subguns on first impression. But this is quickly forgotten. I've spent an afternoon shooting my S&W 76 and it's not like you'll experience trigger-finger fatigue.

I've heard the Swedish K is very smooth and pleasant, although I can't personally say as I've never shot one (my dealer has a rental on the wall I've been meaning to spend some time with alongside my 76.) But we're also at a different price point with the K than we are the 76...or are we not? S&W 76's seem to be at the $10-12,000 mark. I haven't followed Swedish K prices but last I looked a few years ago a Wilson or Pearl tube built K was $12-14,000, a C&R double that if you could find one.

OP - Keep in mind that there are knock-offs of the already a knock-off S&W 76, namely the MK760, original Stemples, Jim Burgess guns, and BRP guns. You could probably find an MK760 or 9mm Stemple for around $7,000, more or less the cost of a stock M11.

The Sterling is another subgun which I've heard is very smooth, but I know little about them or if they can be easily suppressed.

The only MG I have (and the only one I am likely to ever have) is a M10/45. I have a lot of fun with it, both shooting it myself and watching others (especially those that have never shot full-auto before) shoot it. With the Lage Upper it really is quite “modern,” nothing like the bullet hose it is in stock form.

The biggest issues for me are feeding it and finding places to shoot it. It is much easier to do both with a sub gun than something firing a rifle cartridge. No matter how you slice it you can shoot way more common pistol ammunition for the same money than 5.56. If one is shooting handloads the loading process is also much easier for pistol cartridges.  In a couple of areas I have lived indoor ranges allowed full-auto but didn’t allow rifle cartridges. Of course there are ranges that allow rifles but places to shoot pistol ammunition are easier to come by.  For someone with a private range this obviously isn’t an issue.

I think there is a lot more pride of ownership in a M16 vs a MAC. However, if I had both I cannot see using the M16 nearly as much as the MAC unless the M16 was shooting 9mm, .22 LR, or something similar.

If you can afford a RDIAS, at current prices, as your first machine gun, then you should get both the RDIAS and a MAC. Usually, I'm not one to say that if you can afford X, then you can also afford Y. I understand financial discipline more than most, and its not about being able to afford something; rather, it's about maintaining discipline and not wasting resources.

However, this situation is different because by packaging up the deal, you can negotiate a significant discount on both guns.  Right now, it's a buyers market.  The MG market is a soft market right now, for various reasons, and when you tell a broker that you will buy two, you can usually leverage a discount.

Also, the price of a MAC is only about 1/6 to 1/9th of the price of the RDIAS, so it's more achieveable for most people.  It's not like buying two RDIASes.

You can pick up a BRAND NEW Stemple/Jim Burgess SW76 for around $8500 USD.

www.jmbdistribution.com/class3_guns_forsale.htm

I have a GI/Vector RR Uzi - purchased like new...I am the 2nd owner
Also a Jim Burgess SW76 - purchased like new....I am the 2nd owner
And A Colt SP1 RR....not so new, but works and is very effective.

Though registered, both the Uzi and the 76 were manufactured/assembled in the 21st Century.
You can pick up a new SMG.....hard to do for a transferable.
Otherwise, go MAC and hit the Lage uppers hard!!!  They are winning all the subgun matches.

YMMV

If I had the coin I would be buying either a drop in sear/registered lower or an HK trigger pack

While i agree with your financial discipline statement, mgs are as expensive as they are because it is absolutely a sellers market.

its a sellers market, but shit. I was +15% (?) for the yr now -4% so......

I picked up most of my mgs from 09-13. One might want to have some $ on stand by

This thread is unusual.  It is amazing how many didn't read the OP close enough.  The OP wants either a M11/NINE right now and a DIAS down the road soon, or a DIAS with the end of the year bonus check and a M11/NINE down the road soon.  The OP is not considering a M16 RR.  This is also the biggest difference in market value of two machineguns that a member is trying to decide between.  I find that all to be very interesting.

It just so happens that I own both a DIAS and a M11/NINE.  I am also fortunate enough to own a Fleming HK sear and three M10s (two are in transfer).  If I had to pick only one I could keep and sell the rest, I would keep the DIAS.  Why, because of the versatility and price of parts.  With the DIAS caliber changes are push two pins, with a possible magwell change, a different caliber upper and mags.  I'm a tinker kind of guy.  I have DIAS configurations from a 6.5" .22lr flat top, to a MGI lower with AK magwell with an 11.5" 7.62X39 with a AAC M47-2000 can (A M4-2000 that is for 7.62X39) a 10.5" 5.56X45 GSG9 (416 clone) piston upper, and a 20" water cooled Valkyrie Armaments belt fed upper with KNS spade grips.  Seeing that I have 25 host guns for my HK sear, it is a real toss up which is more versatile.  My first machinegun was a Colt roll marked M16 RR.  At one time I owned a Colt M16, DIAS and a LL.  I sold both the Colt gun and the LL and rolled the money into the HK sear.  The HK needs a whole barreled receiver with bolt group and mags.  So the HK sear is at least twice the cost of caliber change for the DIAS.

As far as my advice, I would buy a MAC style RR (you are specifically looking at the M11/NINE).  Why, because this platform is just taking off.  So far in this thread I haven't noticed anyone mention the CF(W) tungsten bolts.  Same original configuration with at least a ROF 1/2 that of the original.  Just with springs and/or bolt change the ROF can go from 500 RPM to 1,600 RPM.  There is also the Lage offerings.  I'm sure others are working on more configurations.  The market value of the various machinegun platforms have reached a critical stage.  Five or six years ago who would have considered a $3,000 rifle caliber conversion for a MAC style RR viable?  But with even an off brand M16 RR conversion at around $18,000 market value, it is now possible. In the next six months to a year, I can see a 30-50% increase in market value for the MAC style RR.  I don't see anything particular driving up the DIAS price besides the same market forces currently in play.  So if you have the funds for the M11/NINE right now, I would buy right now.  I don't think the DIAS market value will rise as much as the M11/NINE will in that time frame.  YMMV.

Scott

I am a poor guy by comparison on here. I only recently got my first nfa stamps. 2 suppressors and a pending sbr. I have always dreamed of a mg. I would save up for the rdias. Buy once, cry once. It has endless possibilities, and you already probably have a few host guns that only need minimal work. The smg would be fun, but not as much as a rdias or hk sear. I would probably even pick the rdias over hk if it was my one and only forever. That’s just me though. The macs don’t get my interest near as much, which sucks because they are a potential to actually be able to buy for me. If I ever get a mg, it will probably be a cheaper rr if I can’t get a rdias.

I just bought a M11/9 from Double Tap Firearms. I emailed and called Ruben about his M11/9s for sale, but he couldn’t be bothered and none of his are in stock. Anyway, I believe I got a good deal and I’m excited to finally have my first machine gun. Thanks for your help guys. I’ll save up and pick up a RDIAS down the road.

Congrats OP. Buy some Lage goodies and you won't be disappointed.

I plan on buying the Lage Max 11 SK upper for it and maybe the Grey Ghost upper. I really like the look of them. Luckily my gun has already had the internals upgraded with Lage parts. It has the Lage hardened sear, pistol grip with mag release, competition trigger, and extended safety.

One cool thing is that my dealer is that I’m going to use Silencer Shop’s system for my paperwork (pictures & fingerprints). This will save me time since I’m filing with my trust.

Congrats on the m11. You will enjoy it. Don't forget to purchase a W-bolt also. Totally changes the platform.

What is a W-bolt and where do you purchase one?  What are the benefits?

CFW bolt= coffee freak tungsten

It weighs roughly twice as much as the stock bolt resulting in a decreased rate of fire to roughly 6-700 rpm. You can buy them from practical solutions, Lage, or Vegas SMG. They run over $750.

Enjoy OP, be sure to post pics. I'm hoping to get a MAX-31 in a few years.

Do some checking.  It is my understanding it is true that an AR10 can't be used with a DIAS.  But since a standard AR-15/M16 upper can be used with the 901, the 901 is part of the AR-15/M16 "family".  I have seen a copy of a NFA Branch determination letter that the use of a DIAS in a 901 is legal.  I've shot a FN FAL, M14 RRs, and a HK91 with a sear in it.  A full auto, full size .308 is not for me.  So I'm not interested in a 901 for my DIAS.

Scott