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Posted: 4/6/2022 8:47:33 PM EDT
So, some brief history. My dad who passed a year ago purchased brand new in 2014 a M1A Scout Squad. He was a collector more than a shooter. Today I lubed her up and loaded up a mag with white box Winchester M80 147gr ball. Squeezed off one round and had a failure to eject. Pulled back on the OP rod and the ejector w/spring along with part of the extractor flies out. Upon close inspection it appears the extractor is cast junk and much to my surprise there was a spring around the firing pin. When did SA Inc. start doing that? Anyways, the gun is still technically in my moms name and she did send in the warranty card back in 2014. Should I send it back to SA for warranty work or just replace the extractor with a USGI one? Also, should I ditch the spring around the firing pin? Thanks in advance folks.
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Posted: 4/6/2022 8:55:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Yikes. Upgrade to a USGI Bolt and parts?
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Posted: 4/6/2022 9:01:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Well, that stinks.
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Posted: 4/6/2022 9:17:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yikes. Upgrade to a USGI Bolt and parts? The bolt looks like a USGI SA marked bolt. I have a LRB M14SA and there is no spring around the firing pin. Was this just a new SA Inc “ upgrade” and are they still doing this? |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 9:54:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Call SA and tell them the problem. They will email you a shipping label. Send it in with a note describing the problem with the broken parts. Won’t cost you anything. Best warranty in the business. Goes from you to them and back to you. No FFL involved. I know from experience.
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Posted: 4/6/2022 10:07:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Call SA and tell them the problem. They will email you a shipping label. Send it in with a note describing the problem with the broken parts. Won’t cost you anything. Best warranty in the business. Goes from you to them and back to you. No FFL involved. I know from experience. @black1970 My only concern is that they are going to replace it with sub par part again. I did some searching on the net and the extractor seems to be a huge issue with them that isn't addressed. I'll contact them anyways but it would seem easier for me to just buy a NOS USGI extractor instead of finding a gun case/shipping box and mailing it to them. I appreciate the advice though. 
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Posted: 4/6/2022 11:55:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Regardless of how it shakes out with Springfield, have spare firing pins and extractors on-hand. Ejectors are cheap, so get a couple of those, too. Their warranty and CS is very good: ask my coworker who blew up his Super Match.
 My SAI- rifle manufactured last year- firing pin is free-floating, no spring. Sounds like someone possibly could have added one after the fact. 
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Posted: 4/7/2022 9:02:01 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: So, some brief history. My dad who passed a year ago purchased brand new in 2014 a M1A Scout Squad. He was a collector more than a shooter. Today I lubed her up and loaded up a mag with white box Winchester M80 147gr ball. Squeezed off one round and had a failure to eject. Pulled back on the OP rod and the ejector w/spring along with part of the extractor flies out. Upon close inspection it appears the extractor is cast junk and much to my surprise there was a spring around the firing pin. When did SA Inc. start doing that? Hence, why all the M1 Garand Pros say: “Cast don’t last!”  Anyways, the gun is still technically in my moms name and she did send in the warranty card back in 2014. Should I send it back to SA for warranty work or just replace the extractor with a USGI one? Also, should I ditch the spring around the firing pin? Gut all the innards and replace them with in-spec USGI parts. Then return to range and git ‘er zero-ed. You can thank me later. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 9:04:13 AM EDT
[#8]
OP:
Let SA INC replace the extractor, its under warranty after all. I've not seen/heard of SA Inc putting a spring on the firing pin. Your picture appears to show a standard FP. The fact that the firing pin had a spring around it, suggests the bolt may not have been SA (if I am correct in the idea that that they never did that). It was done to avoid slam fires, keeping the firing pin from hitting the primer due to inertia. It was a safety feature that the Military didn't adopt. It's up to you if you want to retain it...... But again, if I'm correct SA didn't do that, you are dealing with a bolt assy that has been modified in some way by someone else. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 9:12:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hence, why all the M1 Garand Pros say: “Cast don’t last!” Gut all the innards and replace them with in-spec USGI parts. Then return to range and git ‘er zero-ed. You can thank me later. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So, some brief history. My dad who passed a year ago purchased brand new in 2014 a M1A Scout Squad. He was a collector more than a shooter. Today I lubed her up and loaded up a mag with white box Winchester M80 147gr ball. Squeezed off one round and had a failure to eject. Pulled back on the OP rod and the ejector w/spring along with part of the extractor flies out. Upon close inspection it appears the extractor is cast junk and much to my surprise there was a spring around the firing pin. When did SA Inc. start doing that? Hence, why all the M1 Garand Pros say: “Cast don’t last!” Anyways, the gun is still technically in my moms name and she did send in the warranty card back in 2014. Should I send it back to SA for warranty work or just replace the extractor with a USGI one? Also, should I ditch the spring around the firing pin? Gut all the innards and replace them with in-spec USGI parts. Then return to range and git ‘er zero-ed. You can thank me later. This is an M1A that the OP is talking about, not an M1. The OP indicated the bolt was USGI. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 12:35:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hence, why all the M1 Garand Pros say: “Cast don’t last!” Gut all the innards and replace them with in-spec USGI parts. Then return to range and git ‘er zero-ed. You can thank me later. Don't mean to hi-jack the OP's thread, but I'm new to the M-14/M-1A; where can I acquire in-spec USGI parts? Thank you. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 6:14:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't mean to hi-jack the OP's thread, but I'm new to the M-14/M-1A; where can I acquire in-spec USGI parts? Thank you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hence, why all the M1 Garand Pros say: “Cast don’t last!” Gut all the innards and replace them with in-spec USGI parts. Then return to range and git ‘er zero-ed. You can thank me later. Don't mean to hi-jack the OP's thread, but I'm new to the M-14/M-1A; where can I acquire in-spec USGI parts? Thank you. Check with CMP or Fulton Armory. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 6:28:41 PM EDT
[#12]
You need to locate the plunger and spring. Absent them, replace them too. Hell, I would replace them anyway, they are cheap.
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Posted: 4/7/2022 7:03:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hence, why all the M1 Garand Pros say: “Cast don’t last!” Gut all the innards and replace them with in-spec USGI parts. Then return to range and git ‘er zero-ed. You can thank me later. What are the parts to swap and where does someone get them? |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 8:12:58 PM EDT
[#14]
Get USGI parts and do it yourself. Springfield Armory ran out of USGI stuff years ago. It’ll just get another cast junk extractor which may last 10000rnds, 1000rnds, 100rnds, or 1 rnd as you’ve discovered. Either way…they can’t be trusted.
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Posted: 4/7/2022 10:40:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get USGI parts and do it yourself. Springfield Armory ran out of USGI stuff years ago. It’ll just get another cast junk extractor which may last 10000rnds, 1000rnds, 100rnds, or 1 rnd as you’ve discovered. Either way…they can’t be trusted. Thats part of the problem with the "replace it with USGI parts" idea............ SA INC ran out "years ago" because the Contracts for parts stopped 55yrs ago. The CMP stopped selling M14 parts 25yrs? ago........... So unless you are VERY careful where you buy "USGI M14 Parts" you are about guaranteed to buy commercial knock offs. And you are back to trusting a "cast junk extractor." Then even if you do happen to buy an actual USGI part, it could fail just as readily. There is a reason spare parts for all Military weapons are made............ they are expected to fail. Or as you put it, they "...may last 10000rnds, 1000rnds, 100rnds, or 1 rnd..........." OP: You have a warranty, my suggestion is to use it. Besides you have the issue of the spring-wrapped firing pin to deal with. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 10:51:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats part of the problem with the "replace it with USGI parts" idea............ SA INC ran out "years ago" because the Contracts for parts stopped 55yrs ago. The CMP stopped selling M14 parts 25yrs? ago........... So unless you are VERY careful where you buy "USGI M14 Parts" you are about guaranteed to buy commercial knock offs. And you are back to trusting a "cast junk extractor." Then even if you do happen to buy an actual USGI part, it could fail just as readily. There is a reason spare parts for all Military weapons are made............ they are expected to fail. Or as you put it, they "...may last 10000rnds, 1000rnds, 100rnds, or 1 rnd..........." OP: You have a warranty, my suggestion is to use it. Besides you have the issue of the spring-wrapped firing pin to deal with. Plenty of trustworthy sources for USGI parts out there. And cast SA parts have a track record of failing. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 12:50:56 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plenty of trustworthy sources for USGI parts out there. And cast SA parts have a track record of failing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thats part of the problem with the "replace it with USGI parts" idea............ SA INC ran out "years ago" because the Contracts for parts stopped 55yrs ago. The CMP stopped selling M14 parts 25yrs? ago........... So unless you are VERY careful where you buy "USGI M14 Parts" you are about guaranteed to buy commercial knock offs. And you are back to trusting a "cast junk extractor." Then even if you do happen to buy an actual USGI part, it could fail just as readily. There is a reason spare parts for all Military weapons are made............ they are expected to fail. Or as you put it, they "...may last 10000rnds, 1000rnds, 100rnds, or 1 rnd..........." OP: You have a warranty, my suggestion is to use it. Besides you have the issue of the spring-wrapped firing pin to deal with. Plenty of trustworthy sources for USGI parts out there. And cast SA parts have a track record of failing. Without turning this into a "where to find" thread............. I can think of one, just one, maybe and just because they clearly describe their after market parts. Oh and the USGI parts never failed? Read the books about the development of these rifles and then further testing: ALL have parts failures or recorded issues. The M14 wasnt around long enough to go thru many revisions but look at the M1........... 10-15 revisions due to parts issues??? I shot the M1A/M14 competitively from about 1995 to 2002 or so. I had my M1A and at one point a loaner M14. Shot about documented 20,000 rds thru them. The irony is I know the M1A had civilian parts in it and it shot fine, no breakages. The M14 had the bolt roller retainer clip fail once. Of course at the time, pre-internet, I had no idea what a risk I was taking using the SA Inc parts. Nor was a part breaking such a tragedy, instead I simply replaced the clip and moved on. But then that is what I did during all my time in the Military: I knew that if I used something and a part broke, I simply replaced it and moved on. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 5:06:08 PM EDT
[#18]
I have seen it happen with USGI parts in a M1. I have a pile of USGI extractors and spare ejector/spring and extractor springs. I have found just having spares prevents these type of failures. Just like having a case extractor prevents case head failures.
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Posted: 4/8/2022 6:54:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have seen it happen with USGI parts in a M1. I have a pile of USGI extractors and spare ejector/spring and extractor springs. I have found just having spares prevents these type of failures. Just like having a case extractor prevents case head failures. I have the same policy with reloading die decapping pins: if I have a bunch of spares, I'll never break one. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 7:17:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Without turning this into a "where to find" thread............. I can think of one, just one, maybe and just because they clearly describe their after market parts. Oh and the USGI parts never failed? Read the books about the development of these rifles and then further testing: ALL have parts failures or recorded issues. The M14 wasnt around long enough to go thru many revisions but look at the M1........... 10-15 revisions due to parts issues??? I shot the M1A/M14 competitively from about 1995 to 2002 or so. I had my M1A and at one point a loaner M14. Shot about documented 20,000 rds thru them. The irony is I know the M1A had civilian parts in it and it shot fine, no breakages. The M14 had the bolt roller retainer clip fail once. Of course at the time, pre-internet, I had no idea what a risk I was taking using the SA Inc parts. Nor was a part breaking such a tragedy, instead I simply replaced the clip and moved on. But then that is what I did during all my time in the Military: I knew that if I used something and a part broke, I simply replaced it and moved on.  Nobody ever said USGI parts don’t fail. Are your really arguing that SA cast parts are better than USGI? Because that’s what you’re inferring. |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 10:55:50 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody ever said USGI parts don’t fail. Are your really arguing that SA cast parts are better than USGI? Because that’s what you’re inferring. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Without turning this into a "where to find" thread............. I can think of one, just one, maybe and just because they clearly describe their after market parts. Oh and the USGI parts never failed? Read the books about the development of these rifles and then further testing: ALL have parts failures or recorded issues. The M14 wasnt around long enough to go thru many revisions but look at the M1........... 10-15 revisions due to parts issues??? I shot the M1A/M14 competitively from about 1995 to 2002 or so. I had my M1A and at one point a loaner M14. Shot about documented 20,000 rds thru them. The irony is I know the M1A had civilian parts in it and it shot fine, no breakages. The M14 had the bolt roller retainer clip fail once. Of course at the time, pre-internet, I had no idea what a risk I was taking using the SA Inc parts. Nor was a part breaking such a tragedy, instead I simply replaced the clip and moved on. But then that is what I did during all my time in the Military: I knew that if I used something and a part broke, I simply replaced it and moved on. Nobody ever said USGI parts don’t fail. Are your really arguing that SA cast parts are better than USGI? Because that’s what you’re inferring. Im not inferring anything. I'm saying that the idea of blindly replacing commercial M1A parts with "USGI" parts is a poor idea. The commercial parts work or fail just as well as "USGI" parts. If you can even get "USGI" parts anymore.......... 99% of the "USGI" parts out there.....aren't. So why not use the Warranty SA INC provided, have them replace the extractor and move on.............. And while they are at it, they can address the spring-equipped firing pin issue. |
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Posted: 4/10/2022 6:43:23 AM EDT
[#22]
No advertising outside of EE. TTM
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Posted: 4/11/2022 8:44:42 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't mean to hi-jack the OP's thread, but I'm new to the M-14/M-1A; where can I acquire in-spec USGI parts? Thank you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hence, why all the M1 Garand Pros say: “Cast don’t last!” Gut all the innards and replace them with in-spec USGI parts. Then return to range and git ‘er zero-ed. You can thank me later. Don't mean to hi-jack the OP's thread, but I'm new to the M-14/M-1A; where can I acquire in-spec USGI parts? Thank you. I’d recommend PM-ing ARF member @M1G, then making contact offline. He can probably fix you up. |
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Posted: 6/8/2022 11:26:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The bolt looks like a USGI SA marked bolt. I have a LRB M14SA and there is no spring around the firing pin. Was this just a new SA Inc " upgrade" and are they still doing this? |
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Posted: 6/9/2022 7:31:46 AM EDT
[#25]
Go to your local auto parts store and get a small technician's mirror.
Using a small flash light or bore light, light up the chamber and use a mirror to inspect the chamber. My Scout Squad did this exact thing (same as yours) there was a 360 degree ring gouged in the chamber from poor reaming. When you fired the gun, the brass would obdurate into the groove causing extreme extraction difficulty for the gun, breaking extractors like they were saltine crackers. |
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Posted: 6/9/2022 7:42:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Does the Bolt have a drawing number [mil] on it? You can look it up to see if it's USGI or commercial.
By 2014, I think SA was using almost all commercial parts. The stock of USGI NOS they had bought ran out years before that. I have 3, 2 4 digit and one 40K SN range, all of those are chock full of USGI parts other then the receiver. |
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Posted: 6/9/2022 8:19:36 AM EDT
[#27]
I wouldn't send it back. It's an easy fix with USGI parts.
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Posted: 6/14/2022 6:38:52 PM EDT
[#28]
SA had me send in the bolt only to replace the extractor and spring. Mine is from that era. Works fine now, it was having fail to extract issues.
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