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Posted: 11/9/2019 2:45:57 AM EDT
[#1]
In general, lowers need to be 'hogged out' meaning machined internally to M16 internal clearances. Regardless of low or high shelf - high shelf just has a touch more material to remove than a low shelf.
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Posted: 11/9/2019 6:56:17 AM EDT
[#2]
The engraving can be wherever you want.
LMT has HK style pictogram markings on the mars-l. A true low shelf lower is normally milled for an auto sear in the rear pocket besides the auto sear pin holes. Sionics lowers are this way, for instance. We just made a dozen posties with Sionics lowers. It doesn’t get any easier. With LMT you’ll have to mill out the rear pocket. You might even consider making your own drop in auto sear instead so you can preserve your mars-l title 1 status and ability to sell the gun easily in the future. |
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Posted: 11/9/2019 7:23:50 AM EDT
[#3]
BCI Defense made one that only required the sear hole drilled however it appears they have stopped production.
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Posted: 11/9/2019 7:31:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BCI Defense made one that only required the sear hole drilled however it appears they have stopped production. |
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Posted: 11/9/2019 4:15:45 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In general, lowers need to be 'hogged out' meaning machined internally to M16 internal clearances. Regardless of low or high shelf - high shelf just has a touch more material to remove than a low shelf. I will eventually gut a Mars-L out, and then engrave both full-auto and post-sample markings for just myself, but perhaps standardize on the Sionics for having the potential to convert them with ease. I would love a premium, exceptional quality ambi-lower for cool guy premium build, but whether or not I go full-bore and pay for LWRCI, KAC, Lancers, etc for their nicer ambis, it seems like I have to cut them myself. I will eventually get law letters, but the locality I am in as a lot of politics that would not be the easiest to wade through. I know that LMT only sells select fire with law letters that may have to explicitly state they want LMTs and the like. Anyone have feedback on the lower cost manufacturers like Aero/Andersons? Would you cut the shelves out on the mill or CNC machine it? All the best. |
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Posted: 11/9/2019 4:35:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Howdy, essentially the question is how are lowers like the radian or mars-L difficult to convert to select fire? Is it just drill a sear hole and install? Or does a shelf need to be drilled out? Where's the best location to engrave the lowers? I'd also love to make the appropriate select fire marking ala HK style when the time comes as well, curious what toolings I would need to do a decent job, and presumably I would do a cerakoted or anodizing on top if possible. All the best,  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/9/2019 7:49:10 PM EDT
[#7]
I used a manual mill for all my posties. CNC would be awesome if you've got access and have or can acquire a program to do it.
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Posted: 11/9/2019 9:44:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks everyone! I think I'll go with the Sionics just because they're still continuously on sale as separate lowers, plus they're a good OEM overall. BCI sounds good, but I'm weary of having to buy an entire rifle for parts/worried about support long term! I will eventually gut a Mars-L out, and then engrave both full-auto and post-sample markings for just myself, but perhaps standardize on the Sionics for having the potential to convert them with ease. I would love a premium, exceptional quality ambi-lower for cool guy premium build, but whether or not I go full-bore and pay for LWRCI, KAC, Lancers, etc for their nicer ambis, it seems like I have to cut them myself. I will eventually get law letters, but the locality I am in as a lot of politics that would not be the easiest to wade through. I know that LMT only sells select fire with law letters that may have to explicitly state they want LMTs and the like. Anyone have feedback on the lower cost manufacturers like Aero/Andersons? Would you cut the shelves out on the mill or CNC machine it? All the best. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In general, lowers need to be 'hogged out' meaning machined internally to M16 internal clearances. Regardless of low or high shelf - high shelf just has a touch more material to remove than a low shelf. I will eventually gut a Mars-L out, and then engrave both full-auto and post-sample markings for just myself, but perhaps standardize on the Sionics for having the potential to convert them with ease. I would love a premium, exceptional quality ambi-lower for cool guy premium build, but whether or not I go full-bore and pay for LWRCI, KAC, Lancers, etc for their nicer ambis, it seems like I have to cut them myself. I will eventually get law letters, but the locality I am in as a lot of politics that would not be the easiest to wade through. I know that LMT only sells select fire with law letters that may have to explicitly state they want LMTs and the like. Anyone have feedback on the lower cost manufacturers like Aero/Andersons? Would you cut the shelves out on the mill or CNC machine it? All the best. |
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Posted: 11/9/2019 10:43:14 PM EDT
[#9]
I don’t know if this pertains to all BCI but the ones I’ve seen have the selector stops milled off, which is annoying because the majority of auto selectors have a continuous cut for the detent that goes all the way around. This means you can go from safe to auto by rotating the selector upwards over the top, and also means you can overrun the desired position at both safe and auto.
Sionics lowers only require the auto sear pin hole to be drilled and still have the selector stops. As for cheap lowers like Anderson or Aero, why would you use anything else? Machine it, engrave it, shoot the piss out of it. To me it makes zero sense to use super expensive lowers for posties. Sionics is also inexpensive. Unless you simply have money to burn I wouldn’t cut up a KAC or LMT Mars. |
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Posted: 11/10/2019 9:42:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Not an SOT, but, if I was, I’d use the cheapest part to register for a post-86 MG. If I wanted a high end boutique lower as mentioned, it would be a DIAS; if I wanted an RR, it would be a poverty pony with a couple passes in a mill. Heck, a dremel could do it, as we had a member with a SP1 RR that was converted that way and fixed up nicely by US Anodizing.
BCI is nice, exceptional fit and finish, but the price delta is about 2 poverty ponies to one BCI. |
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Posted: 11/11/2019 8:33:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Is odd that BCI does not have any lowers listed.
In the past I believe they had an 'temporarily out of stock' message with a pic of their lower. *ETA* Clicked 'continue shopping' and this popped up. https://www.bcidefense.com/ |
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Posted: 12/30/2019 10:52:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Are DSA lowers any good? I know they claim theirs are M16 dimensions like BCI?
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Posted: 1/5/2020 8:39:46 PM EDT
[#13]
San Tan comes with a full pocket, my buddy has done two posties with their lowers. I did one with an 80 and a router jig.
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Posted: 1/7/2020 12:27:05 AM EDT
[#14]
are these BCI lowers available ?
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Posted: 1/7/2020 11:31:35 AM EDT
[#15]
A few posts above yours.
They are no longer selling to individuals, so any available on the secondary market would surely have a premium added to the price. https://www.bcidefense.com/ |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 11:33:55 AM EDT
[#16]
Matrix Arms lowers are already milled out for the sear, just need to drill the hole. I've done 2 myself with great success. Also, they are cheap.
EDIT: 
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Posted: 1/7/2020 12:05:48 PM EDT
[#17]
As a 07/02, what jig do you like, there are so many for the AR to M16. I have actually never done that, I’ve done a few AK’s which are fairly simple.
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Posted: 1/7/2020 12:22:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a 07/02, what jig do you like, there are so many for the AR to M16. I have actually never done that, I’ve done a few AK’s which are fairly simple. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 1:55:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For M16's I don't use a jig, I drill the hole with a milling machine, indexing off of the selector hole. Drill one side, then flip over and drill the other side. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 2:03:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which in itself would be the acid like to go, but I don’t have a milling machine. I do have a friend with a awesome CNC milling setup though. We’ve talked about it, his concerns are legality, and second, the correct measurements or blueprints. I have a couple 80% I’ve talked to him about doing and his concern is blueprints on those. Kind of the same thing for a DIAS, he’s into doing it, but is it legal? I even can’t find a definitive answer in the NFA hand book the BATFE sent me. EDIT: This seems like a decent option: https://www.ftfindustries.com/product/AR-M16fix.html I have no experience with the jig, but I've dealt with FTF before, and they are good to go. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 5:41:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not sure, but sounds like a good excuse to buy a Bridgeport! EDIT: This seems like a decent option: https://www.ftfindustries.com/product/AR-M16fix.html I have no experience with the jig, but I've dealt with FTF before, and they are good to go. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Which in itself would be the acid like to go, but I don’t have a milling machine. I do have a friend with a awesome CNC milling setup though. We’ve talked about it, his concerns are legality, and second, the correct measurements or blueprints. I have a couple 80% I’ve talked to him about doing and his concern is blueprints on those. Kind of the same thing for a DIAS, he’s into doing it, but is it legal? I even can’t find a definitive answer in the NFA hand book the BATFE sent me. EDIT: This seems like a decent option: https://www.ftfindustries.com/product/AR-M16fix.html I have no experience with the jig, but I've dealt with FTF before, and they are good to go. |
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Posted: 1/8/2020 2:21:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bowers Group sells one also. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Which in itself would be the acid like to go, but I don’t have a milling machine. I do have a friend with a awesome CNC milling setup though. We’ve talked about it, his concerns are legality, and second, the correct measurements or blueprints. I have a couple 80% I’ve talked to him about doing and his concern is blueprints on those. Kind of the same thing for a DIAS, he’s into doing it, but is it legal? I even can’t find a definitive answer in the NFA hand book the BATFE sent me. EDIT: This seems like a decent option: https://www.ftfindustries.com/product/AR-M16fix.html I have no experience with the jig, but I've dealt with FTF before, and they are good to go. |
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Posted: 1/8/2020 6:01:43 PM EDT
[#23]
I use the Bowers jig. KISS.
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Posted: 1/8/2020 6:02:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve looked at Bowers, and it seems to simple, compared to others? Maybe that’s their secret? Does anyone know where to get receiver blueprints for the correct measurements to complete a 80% lower to M16 specs? |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 12:04:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve looked at Bowers, and it seems to simple, compared to others? Maybe that’s their secret? Does anyone know where to get receiver blueprints for the correct measurements to complete a 80% lower to M16 specs? Hogging out the interior space is easy to do by eye, and the dimensions aren't critical, so long as you expose the top of the selector axle, and provide clearance for the sear and its leg to fit and move. I did the interior of my first postie by eye, and used the Bowers jig for the sear pin. After my first I knew to just locate off the selector hole and didn't have to bother with the jig any more. I've got a set of M16 prints somewhere. Think I got them from "The Pattern Room" forum at weaponsguild.com. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 9:46:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bowers jig is just for locating the sear hole, not hogging the interior. Locating the sear hole is actually dead simple, provided the hammer, trigger and selector holes are accurate. Hogging out the interior space is easy to do by eye, and the dimensions aren't critical, so long as you expose the top of the selector axle, and provide clearance for the sear and its leg to fit and move. I did the interior of my first postie by eye, and used the Bowers jig for the sear pin. After my first I knew to just locate off the selector hole and didn't have to bother with the jig any more. I've got a set of M16 prints somewhere. Think I got them from "The Pattern Room" forum at weaponsguild.com. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I’ve looked at Bowers, and it seems to simple, compared to others? Maybe that’s their secret? Does anyone know where to get receiver blueprints for the correct measurements to complete a 80% lower to M16 specs? Hogging out the interior space is easy to do by eye, and the dimensions aren't critical, so long as you expose the top of the selector axle, and provide clearance for the sear and its leg to fit and move. I did the interior of my first postie by eye, and used the Bowers jig for the sear pin. After my first I knew to just locate off the selector hole and didn't have to bother with the jig any more. I've got a set of M16 prints somewhere. Think I got them from "The Pattern Room" forum at weaponsguild.com. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 10:22:21 AM EDT
[#27]
Brownells Aluma-Hyde seems to work well.
Is a bit tricky to get a nice spray into the mag well. Then the lower is 'cured' in the oven. No report on long term durability. I've never tried the Cerakote process. |
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