Are Peltor Comtacs and and Ops-Core AMP the only options for good ear protection+ communications?  I am not looking for airsoft or chinesium but wanted to check before I dropped the money on either of the options.  If you have used something else, what was it?  Pros/Cons?  Any considerations one should take into account before making a purchase?

Having used Comtac IIs and IIIs, Peltor Sports, Sordins and Liberators of various generations and Howard Leights, my favorite have been Comtac IIIs. Better durability than anything else, good battery life, comfortable with the gel. Some people prefer the sound quality from the Sordins, but I think Comtacs sound better. Haven't tried Amps or the new Comtac Vs.

What kind of comms integration are you looking for? The boom mike and downlead are nice but it adds more expense twice since you also have to buy a PTT. The hearing defender Comtacs and all the others I mentioned have an audio input you can plug into most higher quality speaker microphones for radios, so you can pipe audio into the ears and spend much less. I have PTTs and Comtacs with downleads, and it's what I do more often.

@PatriotNC

Thank you for the quick and thorough response.  I was considering the setup you have there but I wasnt sure how well it performed.  Aside from cost are the other reasons why you prefer that configuration over a boom mic and down lead?  Considering the cost I doubt I will finance trying out the options so just trying to get the best mental picture of the options before I buy in on one.

The microphone boom's annoying and the speaker microphones work better in my experience. You have to have the boom right on your face to make it work well, but you only have to lean over a little for the traditional mike. Not a big deal by any means, but something. No downlead(s) also means nothing to rubber band up or leave dangling when you're just using them as ear pro. I'll be honest with you, I spent the cash on the boom/downlead conversion and PTT because it looked cool. It hasn't provided much practical benefit as a regular guy who isn't plugging into an intercom regularly. The one caveat with hearing defenders is that if for whatever reason you really want/need the boom and downlead setup, it costs more to add it than it does to buy single downlead Comtacs to start with.

Everyone I know with the new gen of Comtacs and Amps love them, but I'm not interested in paying full price for either.

The Howard Leight's have a 3.5mm jack for input.  Can use a hand mike.

I was looking very closely at the comtac 3s. Then 3M had to go off and discontinue them for the comtac 6. Both generations have shot up in price.

Now I'm looking at the OTTO noizebarrier Tac.

I have HLs, Comtac IIs, and IIIs.   The IIIs are best by far but carry the highest price.  I think new ones are now Vs or VIs.  But for $50 the HLs are pretty good.

The military boom mic is expensive and the wrong impedance for civilian comms or LE comms. Requires an amplified PTT. The shoulder mic is just as good or better for voice, allows the mic from the shoulder mic to work if the wire to the headset is damaged. The only real benefit of the military downlead is the super beefy plug that won't wear out or come loose and the ability to use a slimmer PTT. If you use a Peltor PTT it's as big as a shoulder mic anyway. The cost for a Motorola APX6000 specific PTT is very high. You must pull your shoulder mic and swap the PTT in. That is much slower than plugging in a 3.5mm plug from the headset to shoulder mic.

No question for durability, sound quality, and compatibility, a Peltoc COMTAC III with no comms is the way to go. It is not cheap but worth the cost and WAY cheaper than OpsCore. Also, mount on 3M Peltor ARC adapters... way reliable and perfect interface for Peltor that can be reversed if needed. Just use the 2 prong wire into the headset to 3.5mm to shoulder mic (or 2 prong to 2.5mm depending on your shoulder mic) and it won't come loose. Secure the 2 prongs plugged in with velcro coiled up on your left earcup with 2.5mm or 3.5mm plug unsecured. When needed, rab the 3.5mm plug and push it into the shoulder mic. Done.

If you have a problem with the PTT you must remove it from radio on most radios to get the radio to work again. With the shoulder mic the headset, just pull the 3.5mm cord.

Also the coiled PTT wires on Peltor PTT are SUPER fragile. If you route them and put ANY tension on the coiled wire, it will break the outer jacket in places within 6 months and multiple places within 12 months. You will spend all your spare time patching the coiled wire until the whole wire is a giant overlapping patch.

Other Peltor headsets are compatible with 3M/ARC adapters but not waterproof. Sordin is lower audio quality, but louder, and a pain to fit to an adapter (requires minor surgery to device). HL headset seals poorly to ear, the 3.5mm plug comes loose WAY easier than Peltor dual plug, and it is not very durable/robust.

You can't cheap out and get a non amplified military PTT and expect a simple unamplified adapter to make it work. Your choices are amplified airsoft grade adapters, amplified airsoft grade PTT,  or super expensive dedicated name brand PTT.

Plus, if you shoot weak side at all, the boom mic gets in the way a bit with cheek weld.

There are some excellent posts in this thread and I want to thank you all for taking the time to post.  It looks like I will go with the shoulder mic and comtac IIIs on my set up and HL on my wife's.

I guess I have one last question, is there any reason to not order the Comtac V over the Comtac III?

My Vs do not work with my TYT UV-390 radio using the Disco32 adapter.  The same radio and adapter work through IIIs.

That sucks hamb0ne.  I have been looking for IIIs but now that they are discontinued it is hard to find them anywhere and the prices seem to land just below the Vs.

@PatriotNC
@DevL
To your knowledge, is the issue that hamb0ne faced common or likely an isolated incident or adapter issue?

Thank you

A while ago I was looking at comtac llls, they had released the lV but that's a weird version without really an earcup...

Then recently I looked and there are 5s and 6s or something. That was fast! Comtac 2 had the AA battery, 3 moved to the AAA, 4 uses the weird earplugs, what is different with 5 and 6?

Can't tell you, sorry. I haven't used any of the Disco32 stuff myself, nor does anyone I know use it. When I've had PTTs made I've gone through SRS Tactical and TEA, and other guys I know have used Atlantic Signal. So far no issues.

From my friends who have used the Vs, significantly better audio quality. Almost as good as if not better than the Ops-Core AMPs. Same noise reduction rating with and without gel as the IIIs. They now have a headband which can be replaced without destroying it so you can theoretically switch between helmet mounting and headband easier. The newest revision IIIs have this as well. It's all great in theory but anyone who's played with the Peltor booms and those little stalks knows that you can't really keep switching them around that much. They'll break/wear down and the whole process is just a bitch. You will want a separate headband pair if you also have them helmet mounted.

The VIs have all of that plus a proprietary near-field communication system for very close range. Not practical or even usable for the vast majority of people. If you need it, you'll know, etc.

thanks!

@PatriotNC
Are there any concerns of how well the stalks hold up once they are mounted on the helmet?  I was going to purchase a regular headset to pair with the ARC rail adapters I have.

This may have already been discussed above, but there is a company named Disco32 that sells amplified U94 Push-To-Talks for a variety of civilian radios that will work to overcome the impedance issues involved with using said radios with COMTAC headsets.

Oh, and I don't know about the OPS-Core, but the COMTACT IIIs are very nice. The COMTAC IIs aren't bad either, if you can find a good price on them used go for it.

Good luck.

A few years ago it seemed like people also recommended Sordins. Is that not the case now? I’d like to upgrade my ear pro to something that’ll fit under an ACH.

Tagged for more info. Thanks for this thread.

I picked up a set of Vs and I'm going to mount them on an ops-core helmet.  I am going with the lapel mic with audio routed to the Vs via the jacks.  

I'm going to do a similar thing but with Leights on another helmet.  I'll report back with how it all works out.

This thread inspired me to do a little digging and I found this: https://srstactical.com/avenger-covert-lapel-mic-and-ptt-with-connection-to-radio-and-non-comms-headset.html

Theoretically that's all you'd need to do comms with a non-comm Peltor headset. The Kenwood/Ken1 connector should be right for most common ham radios, Baofeng, TYT, etc.

That looks pretty interesting.  I wonder how well it works.

So the Comtac Defender Vs came in.  Apparently they took feedback on the headband and they made it pretty easy to remove and not damage so that made transferring them to the arc rails pretty easy.  The audio is a lot better than my Leights.

Im interested in the Avenger lapel mic that was linked but I also found a regular PTT with the 3.5mm jack.  
@PatriotNC

I searched but could not find the connector type on the back of the comtacs.  What is the connector type and where did you find that cable in your picture?

Thank you

Just saw this, sorry. Yeah, that new headband is alright. It also seems easier to get it on and off the little stalks on the ear cups, but that might be placebo. Overall, pretty great design. The Avenger PTT is almost certainly going to be high quality. I've got a different model of PTT built by SRS, they're GTG. Nice company to work with, can't say enough good about them. The Peltor connector on the back is called a J22, I believe. I bought a Peltor adapter cable for it from SRS, model FL6N. I can confirm these will not work with wired downlead Comtacs.

I’ve been trying to decide on a setup myself. I need the ability to use with a Baofeng radio during classes. The boom mic looks cool, but not sure if it’s worth the extra cost.  Any suggestions?

I don't think it's worth it at all. Spent about $500 between the Y-Harness, boom and PTT and everything but the PTT is in the spare gear box now. Only keep the PTT around because I got a deal on downlead Comtacs for my helmet. Doing it all over again I'd stick with that FL6N and the speaker mike, this one has pretty good build quality but I haven't had it long enough to know how it'll hold up long-term. Save the money, get better functionality and more flexibility.

In what manner are you using a baofeng during classes? My understanding with most of the popular models, and the frequencies they operate on, they are not permitted to be used in general 2 way use for range comms etc.

So the comtac v defender, the FL6N and the commountain mic sounds like what I’m looking for.  Where did you find all of that for $500?  The cheapest I’ve seen the defenders go for is around 425.  

The head instructor bought and programmed the radios for us. We use channel 1,2,3 for range comms. I’m not sure what frequencies he used. I know that a lot of the other channels are tuned to Chicago’s finest only as receiving.

I didn't phrase that well, sorry. That was $500 for the boom, y-harness, and PTT on top of buying the Comtacs. My old set of IIIs was under $300 but that was years ago. I'm not aware of anyone selling the defenders for under $420, if anyone has them in stock. SRS might.

If someone has posted a simple list of things needed to buy (and do) in order to achieve "ear pro + comms" I'd be much obliged to be directed to it.

If it hasn't been posted, I wish someone would.

A problem is that there's a lot of variation between radios and ear pro. Hard to give a solid one-size-fits-all answer.

Heads up @lueds24, Comtac III in stock for $365.

As I said, I'd be much obliged if someone took the time to help.

@Wobblin-Goblin

It's a loaded question and I posting this as a placeholder and I will come back and edit it with more detail as I can so bear with me.

I am going to make a few assumptions here and we can add to the base configuration later.
Let's assume you are starting with no equipment and are looking to get started with a working configuration.  At every purchase point you will have several options that vary in cost so I will try to point out the entry level and some of the higher tier stuff.  Everything comes at tradeoffs so what one person believes is the best may not be the best for you so I will just provide general pointing direction on suppliers based on my experience and what I have found in my research.

This generic setup is going to have:

• Radio


• Ear protection


• Microphone


• cable or cables

Radios
Let's start with the radio.  There are many options here with entry level being a Baofeng UV-5R.  5 packs can be found for around $100.  I would suggest looking at better radios made by Kenwood, Motorola, Yaesu, etc but the Baofengs can get you and a few folks up and running at a low cost.  Quality will be meh but functional.

You will need to use a program like chirp to program:

• weather channels (there are going to be a few, most wont work for you figure out what you pick up and delete the rest)


• Family Radio Service (FRS Channels) - these are low power so you will use these in closer proximity


• Multi-Use Radio Service (MURS)

[li]General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) - Requires license.  No test but cost like $70 for a decade and anyone related to you in any way can use your license
/li]

You can also program local repeaters and stuff like that but you may want to get the stuff above under your belt before you go that route.  Also, you will need to get a HAM license if you want to unlock a few more degrees of freedom but assumption here is just getting started for now.  

There are many videos out there to help you get your radio programmed.  Here is an example

One final note on radios is you can get different antennas and batteries.  You dont need to but once you get it going if you want help we can help but it's not important to start.

Ear Protection

You can go with something like Howard Leights

Or you could spend a lot more money and get something like Comtac IIIs or Vs.  The Howard Leights are not as sexy but functionality wise, I made it happen and the cost is <$100/person (radio, ear pro, lapel mic, cables).

Lapel Microphone
The specific model will be more dependent on your radio than anything else.  The key things you want to look for in a mic are: 1) the connector on the mic works with the mic connector on your radio, 2) it has an audio output port (3.5mm or something of the sort) 3)has good quality audio both on the pick up with the mic and on the speaker built in to the lapel mic 4) it wouldnt hurt to make sure the button location and clip make sense and look durable.

This is an example of one that would work with a baofeng UV-5R.

Another option and one that is probably a better solution is to go with the SRS avenger linked in a previous post.  

Cabling

You will need a cable to connect your lapel mic to your ear protection.  If you went with the Howard Leights and the mic linked above you could use the cable that comes with the Leights.  If you go with comtacs and the BTECH lapel mic you will need to buy the FL6N cable linked in Patriot's post.  

One last note: all this is great and all but if you want to talk at a decent distance you are going to have to rely on repeaters.  Range is dependent on terrain.  Literally, mileage will vary.  

Hope this helps you get started.  Please feel free to post back with questions.

JTX23, thank you for taking the time to explain all that. That's precisely what I need right now (simple, clear explanation of the basics to get started). My brother is an EMT, so he's handling everything on the med kit side and I agreed to handle the comms end of things.

Here is more information to help tailor everything for our needs/wants:

We don't mind paying a little more for quality and durability. If Comtac Vs are better in either department, we'd prefer to go in that direction. Same goes for radios and cables and any other infrastructure.

We want three setups: helmet/gear mounted for me, H/G mounted for my brother, and just a radio for my parents. We all live in separate houses on the 125+ acre family farm. I am 1/2 - 3/4 mile away from my parents and brother, but they live about 200 yards away from each other. It is a very hilly area, but there are no hills that separate line of sight between the three houses, only trees for the most part. It is imperative that the three radios work well in that setting (3/4 - 1 mile range).

ETA: if GMRS fits the bill, I don't mind the $70 license fee at all and since we're all family, I guess they can all piggy back on it.

So, given this additional info, what are your suggestions?

Again, thanks for your time.

Radios are a complicated subject. How badly do you want privacy? Are you willing to get your ham license? Business itinerant? If you are serious about comms get at least the tech ham license, can take it online these days and it’s easy. Hamstudy.org is the ticket.

I’d suggest an Anytone 878 or TYT MD390. Both are capable of AES 256 encryption on DMR, perfectly legal with an itinerant license. The Anytone is compatible with Motorola encryption apparently, the TYT is not. Motorola is an option but a more expensive one since the software isn’t free.

EDIT: I have both the TYT and Anytone. The quality bugs me but most people are fine with them. At some point I’ll pick up a few Motorolas, but apparently the software is $300, $100 for programming cable, plus radio cost.

If the Motorolas are significantly better in terms of quality and reliability, I'd lean in that direction. Which Motorola radio would you recommend and what do they go for?

I would strongly suggest upgrading from the Howard Leights. Comtacs perform much better, and over long terms of use you'll appreciate the quality of life stuff if you're using the ear pro regularly. Not everybody needs high end ear pro, though. If some family members only shoot once in a while and wouldn't be wearing them for many hours at a time, particularly not with helmets or in weird positional shooting, they can save the money and be perfectly happy with H-Ls.





You're going to want a repeater for this. You don't need 200 watts and a 200 foot tower, but you need infrastructure. DMR is great and itinerant is very useful. This use case is not valid for itinerant, however. If Wobblin described the situation correctly to the FCC, they would deny his itinerant application and tell him to re-apply with frequency coordination.

The appeal of GMRS here is that you pay the $70 and you're allowed to build a repeater system unsupervised and as long as it's operated correctly, nobody bothers you and you're not out any other money. Of course, you cannot encrypt and conditional access is impossible to enforce if someone really wants to screw with you. If you want privacy and complete control of your machine, the only option is business licensing. Frequency coordination and site survey to get a business radio license can be in the thousands and take months. You have to figure out how much this is worth to you.

Motorola DMR radios can be much nicer than the chinese ones. Not all of them are, however, but all of them increase your per-unit and system expenses. The better Motorola radios use different connectors for audio accessories, meaning you're locked in to Motorola's expensive accessories and need custom work if you want PTTs and the vendor doesn't support the connector already. If you end up going the licensed route for encryption, you have to pay for upgrades to the radios for it. You're at the whim of Motorola's support system, as well. When Motorola decides something is NLA, you get told to upgrade and it can be hundreds or thousands. Programming and software expenses are a big deal with Motorolas, and it's not something to screw around with. If Motorola chooses to sell the software to you, it's hundreds of dollars by itself. You can choose to get your radios configured by a shop, which can save you money as long as you don't need them reprogrammed often or at all. I have older Motorola stuff but I'm moving away from it. Great quality, very reliable, but a pain.

Kenwood is a much nicer company to deal with and the dealers seem to be the same in my experience. No experience with Icom or Vertex, very limited experience with Harris.

OK, so maybe Motorola isn't the answer. In any case, we still want decent quality stuff. In other words, we're not interested in low end equipment just to say we have it. This stuff will get used.

Also, perhaps this helps the situation, but my house sits on the highest elevation of the entire property, which is about 150-200' above the other two houses and 250-300' above the lowest parts of the property.

Reminder: of the three parties, only two of us will have helmet/gear mounted comms. My parents will simply have the radio.

My usage is different but after reading through this, here’s my list:
Comtac V defenders
SRS audio adapter FL6N
Commountain speaker/mic
Baofeng UV-5R radio

Thanks for the heads up on the headset patriotNC.

Motorolas are better, but I don’t honestly don’t know by how much. The thing that bugs me about both the Anytone and TYT is that the channel selection rotator knob doesn’t have a stop. It clicks between settings just fine, it just goes through a full 360 degrees. Drives me nuts.

I don’t consider myself qualified to give anyone else a recommendation on a Motorola, but I’ve been toying with getting a UHF XPR7550. I believe they are like $700 new. There are a lot of people more qualified than I on here though, listen to them before me.
Here are some ham threads that might be helpful for the handhelds.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Outdoors/Inexpensive-HTs-with-AES-encryption/22-699090/?page=1

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Outdoors/Business-radio-frequency/22-699322/

This thread is great, and on page 5 there is a sweet homemade repeater.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/May-I-give-some-advice-/5-2411468/?

I'm a poor and have Walker razors on my helmet with comm audio into the headset and an HT hand mic

The Anytone/Tytera stuff sucks because it's chinese, but it's better than serviceable. Ours have worked well enough that we de-prioritized upgrading. Initial setup is tricky and there's no confidence in support, of course, given the provenance. There are show-stopper problems and oversights with the CPS and the radio firmware that haven't been fixed for years.

Without asking for any sensitive details of your site it sounds like you could get away with a pretty simple repeater setup and an antenna mast on the house. The hardware is going to be similar or the same for both GMRS and business, and it'll cost roughly between $800 at the bare minimum for used and more like $2,750+ for shiny new stuff with support. Consider backup power as well.

It kinda has to be that way given you can have something like 1000 channels in a zone on the Anytone.

The argument that Anytone radios suck because they're chinese is kinda weak. Sure, I don't want to support china either, but Motorola doesn't even make a radio that can be programmed from the front. And for most "prepper" useage, that's going to be pretty important.

OK, rewinding back to JT's post, it looks like we have narrowed a few things down:

1. Going with Comtac Vs

2. Going GMRS

3. NOT going with Motorola.

Having said that, what's left to decide and what are your recommendations, fellas?

My comtac IIIs took a shit, is there anyway to get them serviced or am I just out of luck?

OpsCore AMP with NFMI earplugs are awesome. Nothing else comes close in terms of combined NRR without losing hearing quality, and so cool how the earplugs are battery free. The amp arms are pretty cool too, and let you use the ear pro as a counterweight

@patriotNC
I got everything in and I can’t get audio into the comtacs. There’s no output from the speaker/mic. I tried plugging in an iPad and got audio in the headset. Am I doing something wrong?

@pebble

My AMPS w/NFMI should be arriving soon. What radio and PTT are you using with yours? I've got a Yaesu FT-3DR and need to find a decent PTT.

Buy 2 baofengs, and you and your brother test them out on your property. If they work well, great. Youre set. If not and you need something more expensive and elaborate, the baofengs will work with that and still have use as backups.

Based on your description id get 4 baofengs and a gmrs license. Put 2 on a basestation charger at your parents, and you and your brother each take one.

Get 2 hand mics, 2 downleads, 2 sets of Howard leights, and 2 pairs of gel cups.

If I recall, you can even make a repeater using 2 baofengs if you need one of those too.

That's really weird. Commomountain PTT, FL6F cable? This exact setup works for me on my hearing defenders. Is the jack on your speaker mike making a full connection? That's about the only thing I can think of, unless they changed something and now it doesn't work with stereo plugs.

It’s weird. I can get audio output using Howard Leight impact sports from the commountain speaker mic. I get audio  through the Fl6n from an iPad. My next guess is to try the fl6h mono cable. I got the FL6N that you linked from SRS.