Diversified Machine Ti tube split after laser engraving (edit: title changed) - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Diversified Machine Ti tube split after laser engraving (edit: title changed)

Posted: 4/2/2021 3:32:17 PM EDT

I have a DM tube delivered about 15 months ago and I had it laser engraved. Unfortunately the engraver at the local shop aligned it right on top of the tube's seam weld, and it cracked through and through, to the point that there is a tiny bit of flex in the tube right below trust name. This was never part of a finished build or stressed in any remarkable way. I took it back to the shop to see what they had to say and they explained about seam welds in cheaper Form 1 tube components, and that they'd engrave again for free but wouldn't refund a tube replacement. I'm not really sure who to be mad at here since the shop may have just ended up saving me a catastrophic failure down the road, maybe I should be upset at my own lack of education or DM's manufacturing process but they aren't around to effect a solution anyways.

I am looking for OD 1.5" / ID 1.36" by "8 inch" (really 7.6") tubes that are not seam welded. Is there a good source for them right now?

I am probably just going to have the end cap engraved after this experience regardless of the tube quality.

Edit: title changed as I am pretty unsure about the shop's seam weld explanation considering the info in this thread

Posted: 4/2/2021 5:33:44 PM EDT

[#1]

Not the first tube to split after laser engraving gone wrong. Not the tubes fault.

Posted: 4/2/2021 6:02:12 PM EDT

[#2]

I may be speaking out of line...

Between here and form 1 forum. DM seemed to make decent stuff but was not dependable. Maybe a good person with good intentions but a complete failure of a business model.

I am not saying leave him to dry like others, but I find myself personally having trouble making an order with him.

As for your tube, I hope you find a quick solution. That is a tough spot to be in.

Posted: 4/2/2021 10:08:43 PM EDT

[#3]

Yet another example of laser engraving Ti resulting in a borked tube.

Unless they're engraving in an inert atmosphere, DO NOT LASER ENGRAVE TI TUBES!

Posted: 4/3/2021 8:02:45 AM EDT

[#4]

@BlackTuono
How do you know it was seam welded? Pics of seam?

SDTA has a 1.5x1.36x7.8 tube

Posted: 4/3/2021 8:03:15 AM EDT

[#5]

I highly doubt DM was using welded tubes. He absolutely knew better. Oxygen embrittlement is a real thing when laser engraving Ti, it's why Ti needs to be lasered in an inert environment.

Posted: 4/3/2021 12:53:07 PM EDT

[#6]

OP:

- did the engraver crush the tube, maybe by over-tightening the vice?

Posted: 4/3/2021 3:05:55 PM EDT

[#7]

I'm going with engraver error instead of DM seam welding titanium tubes.

Posted: 4/3/2021 3:27:03 PM EDT

[#8]

Posted: 4/3/2021 6:58:31 PM EDT

[#9]

I figured this would cause some controversy. I honestly don't know - the shop has a good rep from people I've spoken to so I didn't want to put them on blast. I'm also not any kind of metallurgical expert so I wouldn't know a seam weld if I saw one.

Apologies for the picture but this was the best I could do given the lighting and surface reflectivity challenges involved. The rough raised line that is discolored at about 3 o'clock is what the shop claimed was a seam weld, and it lines up with the longest line of the engraving where the split occurred. I tried to get a picture of the split on the inside of the tube but it wouldn't come out; I'd post a pic of the exterior split except I can't show the crack without also showing my full name (I made the trust in 2006 and didn't know best practices in naming). I'll try and get a masked pic of that but it's just a crack and any seam weld, if existent, is not visible externally.

My plan is to get a new tube and also make a new trust with a much abbreviated name, then engrave on the front endcap. Any shops that you know for certain aren't using seam welds?

Posted: 4/3/2021 8:30:25 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
I may be speaking out of line...

Between here and form 1 forum. DM seemed to make decent stuff but was not dependable. Maybe a good person with good intentions but a complete failure of a business model.

I am not saying leave him to dry like others, but I find myself personally having trouble making an order with him.

As for your tube, I hope you find a quick solution. That is a tough spot to be in.

View Quote

No worries, the ATF already did that.

Posted: 4/3/2021 8:52:52 PM EDT

[#11]

Did it crack the entire length of the tube?

Can you post a pic of the other end? If it didn't.

Posted: 4/4/2021 8:39:33 PM EDT

[#12]

I have 2 tubes from DM, they don't have seams that I can see.
Did the threads crack? Hard to tell, Good luck

Posted: 4/5/2021 12:17:44 PM EDT

[#13]

Threads didn't crack. I couldn't get any more pictures, but the seam-looking-thing does not extend the whole way to the other side. I'm not really sure if it was a seam. I have no use for it any more, I'd send it to someone if they could tell definitively and wanted to ascertain, but with DM out of business it's moot. I think the main thing I was trying to figure out was - are other people going to have potentially catastrophic tube breaks with their DM cans and is this shop selling me a line of crap? I still don't know, but I'm probably never going to laser engrave on a tube ever again regardless.

Posted: 4/5/2021 12:38:36 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
. . . I still don't know, but I'm probably never going to laser engrave on a tube ever again regardless.

View Quote

Wise plan.

Engrave mounts or end-caps. And Tar Heel State Firearms is the go-to engraver for F1 needs. They are fast, knowledgeable, inexpensive, and all around best.

Posted: 4/5/2021 7:45:13 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

No worries, the ATF already did that.

View Quote

Yeah I read about that a few times on the form 1 forum. I was drinkin a bit when I posted that. I still wouldn't order from him because of the lack of communication and how back logged he must of been to have those wait times.

Posted: 4/6/2021 12:30:49 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

My plan is to get a new tube and also make a new trust with a much abbreviated name, then engrave on the front endcap. Any shops that you know for certain aren't using seam welds?

View Quote

i wouldn't engrave the front end cap, just in case you get an end cap strike. i would engrave the mount.

Posted: 4/6/2021 4:57:41 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

i wouldn't engrave the front end cap, just in case you get an end cap strike. i would engrave the mount.

View Quote

This is great advice. I can't find the actual thread, but BigWaylon once posted some examples of nicely engraved mounts that were done by Tar Heel State Firearms. I recently went the same route and couldn't be happier with the quality of their work and their quick turnaround time.

Posted: 4/10/2021 4:02:00 PM EDT

[#18]

Edit. Never mind I see this was never a completed build.

Posted: 4/12/2021 2:46:54 PM EDT

[#19]

Front end cap strikes are probably the most common suppressor failure. Try the rear end cap instead.

Posted: 4/12/2021 5:08:52 PM EDT

[#20]

since we haven't seen the outside, I'm going to guess that the 'seam' area the engraver pointed out is directly opposite the engraving, and nowhere else.

What does that suggest to you?

Posted: 4/12/2021 5:20:00 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

This is great advice. I can't find the actual thread, but BigWaylon once posted some examples of nicely engraved mounts that were done by Tar Heel State Firearms. I recently went the same route and couldn't be happier with the quality of their work and their quick turnaround time.

View Quote

Every form 1 I have ever done I engraved the mount using THSF, including my DM kit.

They do phenomenal work.

Posted: 5/19/2021 11:04:36 AM EDT

[#22]

I am kind of surprised to find this thread, really didnt think other people had the same problem but here we are.
My DM tube split right from the laser engraving to about the middle of the tube.

Posted: 5/20/2021 1:35:07 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
I am kind of surprised to find this thread, really didnt think other people had the same problem but here we are.
My DM tube split right from the laser engraving to about the middle of the tube.

View Quote

From everything repeatedly posted in this thread and others, it isn't DM's tube at fault; it is the engraving. Stop blaming DM for the faults of your engravers.

Posted: 6/6/2021 2:20:17 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
I am kind of surprised to find this thread, really didnt think other people had the same problem but here we are.
My DM tube split right from the laser engraving to about the middle of the tube.

View Quote

I have also seen a Ti tube that split where it was laser engraved. DM was using seemless tubing. The failures are due to the laser engraving. The tube that I saw had pretty deep and wide engraving.

With that said, both myself and a friend have DM tubes that were laser engraved closer to minimum ATF specs and both have been fine, to include using for rapid firing from SBRs. However, I will not be using lasers on any future F1 cans with Ti tubes.

Posted: 6/29/2021 2:40:56 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:

My plan is to get a new tube and also make a new trust with a much abbreviated name, then engrave on the front endcap. Any shops that you know for certain aren't using seam welds?

View Quote

Smart plan. My trust is just "ABC Trust" with my initials. I've never understood why people make it "John Moses Browning irrevocable living national firearms act trust blah blah"

Posted: 6/29/2021 3:01:30 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:

Smart plan. My trust is just "ABC Trust" with my initials. I've never understood why people make it "John Moses Browning irrevocable living national firearms act trust blah blah"

View Quote

I did same.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Diversified Machine Ti tube split after laser engraving (edit: title changed)

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