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Posted: 2/14/2018 4:46:58 PM EDT
Howdy all...
I'm new to the NV game but have already purchased a Trail XQ38 to get a thermal scope for hunting/playing around with the kids. I want to get a PVS-14 next and am now researching lights/lasers and helmets. I am trying to figure out the differences in the Steiner DBAL models. I want to have a light/laser combo but not totally break the bank (so the MAWL is definitely out  )
In simple terms, can you guys help me out with the main differences in the following: A3 D2 I3 I have some Aimpoints that are NV compatible (M4 & PROs) so maybe I can get by with those and a good IR flashlight. I'm not kicking doors and like I said, don't want to break the bank, but I do want quality gear that will cover the most bases. Thanks for helping me steer in the right direction! |
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Posted: 2/14/2018 5:13:43 PM EDT
[#1]
A3 green laser, IR laser pointer, IR laser illuminator. No visible signature, but civilian version is limited to something around 150 meter depending on conditions.
I2 can be same as A3 except without the green laser or without the illuminator. Basically two beams not three. Can also be red. D2 best civilian performance of the three, but has large visible signature due to LED based illuminator. |
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Posted: 2/14/2018 5:17:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A3 green laser, IR laser pointer, IR laser illuminator. No visible signature, but civilian version is limited to something around 150 meter depending on conditions. I2 can be same as A3 except without the green laser or without the illuminator. Basically two beams not three. Can also be red. D2 best civilian performance of the three, but has large visible signature due to LED based illuminator. |
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Posted: 2/14/2018 6:02:19 PM EDT
[#3]
What’s your intended use? Short distance? Indoors! I2
Outdoors? D2. Nothing touches the D2 illuminator when you factor in the price. It’s almist as strong as the MAWL and $1500 less. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 7:13:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What’s your intended use? Short distance? Indoors! I2 Outdoors? D2. Nothing touches the D2 illuminator when you factor in the price. It’s almist as strong as the MAWL and $1500 less. I guess one thing worth mentioning is that the IR laser pointer on any class-1 civilian laser is generally more than adequate. It's the illuminator where you see the big difference between class-1 (civilian) and class-3b (mil/LE). The D2 illuminator as FullAutoHound said is about the best you can get. If you are not using it for two-way shooting lanes it's the way to go. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 9:07:00 AM EDT
[#5]
A3- visible green and IR laser plus IR illuminator. Visible and IR laser are "slaved" together so you can go out and zero the visible during the day and the IR laser will be on also. Biggest complaint I hear is people saying they have no range to shoot at during night time. So for some this is the best option.
I2- various options there- red or green visible + IR laser. Not "slaved" together so your doing two zero jobs, no illuminator. I have had an old skewl red visible/IR version of this on my main training rifle for 6-7 years now. That rifle sees easily 10-15K rounds a year. Other than losing the caps for the laser output, never had a problem with the unit or zero. There is an I2 variant Steiner number 9007 that has an IR laser and an IR illuminator. This is a good middle of the road price range option for those that don't want/need a visible laser. I have one of these on another training rifle that sees less use, maybe just a few thousand rounds a year on that rifle. I like the IR laser dot within the IR illuminator feature- illuminate and check an area at distance while being ready to shoot as well. A4 is supposed to be coming out in late March, it's a big honking deal and pretty damn pricey. Honestly I'd go with an A3 and if you felt the need for a white light, add a light on yourself and put the cash difference towards a training class or practice ammo. Most basic is the OTAL-C which is just an IR laser, no other bells and whistles. This one takes AA battery versus CR123 if that matters to you also. Very simple, only thing I've seen new people mess up is leaving the caps on, other than that it's really hard to do something wrong with it. Something to consider also is that if your outfitting a rifle for someone who potentially doesn't train as much or isn't going to probably be as familiar with their weapon/equipment- the OTAL-C is just IR, very simple to use and a lot easier to avoid any ND of say a visible laser stream like an inexperienced user could easily do with an I2. Something to consider. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 2:07:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A3- visible green and IR laser plus IR illuminator. Visible and IR laser are "slaved" together so you can go out and zero the visible during the day and the IR laser will be on also. Biggest complaint I hear is people saying they have no range to shoot at during night time. So for some this is the best option. I2- various options there- red or green visible + IR laser. Not "slaved" together so your doing two zero jobs, no illuminator. I have had an old skewl red visible/IR version of this on my main training rifle for 6-7 years now. That rifle sees easily 10-15K rounds a year. Other than losing the caps for the laser output, never had a problem with the unit or zero. There is an I2 variant Steiner number 9007 that has an IR laser and an IR illuminator. This is a good middle of the road price range option for those that don't want/need a visible laser. I have one of these on another training rifle that sees less use, maybe just a few thousand rounds a year on that rifle. I like the IR laser dot within the IR illuminator feature- illuminate and check an area at distance while being ready to shoot as well. A4 is supposed to be coming out in late March, it's a big honking deal and pretty damn pricey. Honestly I'd go with an A3 and if you felt the need for a white light, add a light on yourself and put the cash difference towards a training class or practice ammo. Most basic is the OTAL-C which is just an IR laser, no other bells and whistles. This one takes AA battery versus CR123 if that matters to you also. Very simple, only thing I've seen new people mess up is leaving the caps on, other than that it's really hard to do something wrong with it. Something to consider also is that if your outfitting a rifle for someone who potentially doesn't train as much or isn't going to probably be as familiar with their weapon/equipment- the OTAL-C is just IR, very simple to use and a lot easier to avoid any ND of say a visible laser stream like an inexperienced user could easily do with an I2. Something to consider.  ) I'm so new to all of this and I just kinda get lost in all the different specs.
I'm thinking the 9007 might be the way to go for my situation. I plan on using it outdoors mostly. Navigate thru the desert to get out to an area to coyote hunt. Take our boys out night hiking or scan the desert preserve area that is right behind our house. I just watched 3 yotes the other night at 2am that were howling right behind our backyard. The Pulsar thermal was totally awesome!!! I don't mind the option of having all these toys as additional tools in the toolbox for the very remote chance of SHTF, it is a nice little side benefit to buying "toys"! Please keep chiming in if you have any other info to offer up. ETA...my range is open for use at night. I have done quite a bit of night shooting to practice use of pistol & rifle lights. It has been most beneficial. Can't wait to practice NV use! |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 2:12:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A3 green laser, IR laser pointer, IR laser illuminator. No visible signature, but civilian version is limited to something around 150 meter depending on conditions. I2 can be same as A3 except without the green laser or without the illuminator. Basically two beams not three. Can also be red. D2 best civilian performance of the three, but has large visible signature due to LED based illuminator. Thanks |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 3:07:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By this, do you mean the visible signature is noticeable to the naked eye &/or animals, or that it just stands out like a sore thumb to others with NV? Thanks Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A3 green laser, IR laser pointer, IR laser illuminator. No visible signature, but civilian version is limited to something around 150 meter depending on conditions. I2 can be same as A3 except without the green laser or without the illuminator. Basically two beams not three. Can also be red. D2 best civilian performance of the three, but has large visible signature due to LED based illuminator. Thanks |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 4:05:25 PM EDT
[#9]
IMHO, the 9007 was too weak for my outdoor hunting wants/needs. i use an M952V for coons and a Torch for coyotes. i used to use a Evolva T20, but upgraded to a Torch. I might be looking at a different pill in the near future.
YMMV. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 6:02:48 PM EDT
[#10]
I2: There are a few different models exterior color aside you have a choice of red, green laser (neither are slaved with the IR laser or an onboard IR illuminator. IMHO the I2 9007IR laser/IR illuminator is the one to buy. The illuminator on the I2 are great for indoors, no moon/star/city light pollution, or under a dark canopy will work well out to @ 75-125 yards max.
A3: either red or green slaved laser which allows you to zero your IR laser during the day, dedicated activation port that allows you to activate the visible laser should your lighting environment changes from dark to light, and an onboard IR illuminator exactly like the I2 with a dedicated port to activate the IR laser and/or/win the IR illuminator. Same primary use as the I2 D2: Extremely bright IR Illuminator with either a slaved red or green laser. This unit is well suited for in/outdoor use but is over 1lbs and is significantly larger. It's size and weight is less noticeable on a carbine or moved reward on a long FF rail. IMHO depending on the Gen and spec of the PVS14 you get and th conditions you'll be using your LAM will determine the best unit for you. A illuminator is mostly not always needed when shooting under NODS again depending on the specs and having the brightest illuminator may not be the best choice when trying to sneak up on an opponent that may also have NV. I have used the D2, I2 9007 and the OTAL-C IR laser only with a SureFire M952V. For weight the OTAL is the best, but the 9007 is the most universal. |
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