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Posted: 4/25/2021 7:58:23 AM EDT
I'm getting ready to spend my government money, this will be my first rifle can. I was set on the Sandman S, but a friend brought up the Razor 7.62. Stating the Razor 7.62 was just as good for about $200 less. My planned use is for an AR-10 308, AR-15 223/300 blk, T/C encore 300blk.
Link Posted: 4/25/2021 9:29:47 AM EDT
[#1]
They keymo alone is worth getting the sandman. Keymo is the best mount out there period. Xeno is a close second.
The rugged is essentially like the ASR. You got to rotate the collar. So it limits what kind of hand guards you use.
Link Posted: 4/25/2021 10:42:57 AM EDT
[#2]
The keymo is a great mount but there's nothing wrong with Rugged's mount either (unless you're tucking it as noted).
Link Posted: 4/25/2021 8:14:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They keymo alone is worth getting the sandman. Keymo is the best mount out there period. Xeno is a close second.
The rugged is essentially like the ASR. You got to rotate the collar. So it limits what kind of hand guards you use.
View Quote



Keymo is a good, heavy mount.

Saying it is the best is a little off when people have so many different needs.
Link Posted: 4/27/2021 3:23:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Rugged has a great mount, but they're seemingly not interested in selling an aftermarket version, so if you go with one of their rifle cans, you can't adapt other cans to use the Rugged mounts, where as Keymo is available for anything with the standard threads.  It's too bad, they have some great rifle cans, I really wish they would release a stand alone version of their mount.
Link Posted: 5/2/2021 1:28:44 AM EDT
[#5]
Tough choice, bro.  I like both.  I actually like Nimad better than Sandman
Link Posted: 5/3/2021 10:14:36 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I'm getting ready to spend my government money, this will be my first rifle can. I was set on the Sandman S, but a friend brought up the Razor 7.62. Stating the Razor 7.62 was just as good for about $200 less. My planned use is for an AR-10 308, AR-15 223/300 blk, T/C encore 300blk.
View Quote


These two silencers get cross-shopped very often.  It is interesting, because their performance is somewhat similar, but the size envelope is different.

In Figure 7 in the article below, these two silencers are shown, and the Razor and Sandman-S are very similar in flow restriction (back pressure).  The Sandman-S is a little quieter, but it is also larger than the Razor.  When looking at the size envelope, and knowing that you will most likely use hearing protection on many of your host guns, your decision may end up centering on mount, quality, and length.  It is important to note that both silencers can only use one proprietary mount (Dead Air, the key-mount, and Rugged, the dual-taper lock).  The Rugged silencer is shorter, the mount is lighter and stronger, etc.  But Dead Air mounts can be used with other silencers, so that can buy you versatility.  

It is a great time to be a silencer consumer.

PEW Science OSS HX-QD 762 Review with Razor and Sandman-S comparison in Figure 7

Jay
PEW Science
Link Posted: 5/3/2021 10:42:42 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


These two silencers get cross-shopped very often.  It is interesting, because their performance is somewhat similar, but the size envelope is different.

In Figure 7 in the article below, these two silencers are shown, and the Razor and Sandman-S are very similar in flow restriction (back pressure).  The Sandman-S is a little quieter, but it is also larger than the Razor.  When looking at the size envelope, and knowing that you will most likely use hearing protection on many of your host guns, your decision may end up centering on mount, quality, and length.  It is important to note that both silencers can only use one proprietary mount (Dead Air, the key-mount, and Rugged, the dual-taper lock).  The Rugged silencer is shorter, the mount is lighter and stronger, etc.  But Dead Air mounts can be used with other silencers, so that can buy you versatility.  

It is a great time to be a silencer consumer.

PEW Science OSS HX-QD 762 Review with Razor and Sandman-S comparison in Figure 7

Jay
PEW Science
View Quote


Spot on.
Link Posted: 5/3/2021 11:42:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Two other suppressors that compete well with the Razor and Sandman-S are the Vox-S and Omega-300.  You trade some perception of durability for weight and mount versatility and depending on what you are comparing to and host choices different sound/tone/backpressure levels.

Definitely lots of great choices which can make it an analysis paralysis exercise to get a great or optimal fit.  This is one aspect of why people wind up with a stable of cans.  It’s hard to know your requirements and since it often comes down to taste, good product discrimination info is hard to discern without using multiple products across multiple hosts.  As important as sound characterization is once you use hearing protection or are far enough away (neighbors, other hunters, etc.) those distinctions can become less important than length, weight, versatility.  Focusing on use-case before hardware characteristics can help, but the NFA distorts that evaluation early on.  Everybody wants one can, built for life, and doesn’t consider how they can’t mag dump at their public range anyway, and how a long, heavy, quietest-available suppressor feels on their hunting rig.
Link Posted: 5/3/2021 12:11:05 PM EDT
[#9]
YHM R2 Resonator, $535 from silencer shop, 16oz, 300 magnum rated, 10.5" for .223 and .308,  excellent mount, can also use other types of mounts that are 1 3/8"x24.

Link Posted: 5/3/2021 5:50:18 PM EDT
[#10]
^^ yep

Came here to say neither

R2 with mount of choice and roll on

Link Posted: 5/8/2021 11:13:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Two other suppressors that compete well with the Razor and Sandman-S are the Vox-S and Omega-300.  You trade some perception of durability for weight and mount versatility and depending on what you are comparing to and host choices different sound/tone/backpressure levels.
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Owning more than one of these, I'm going to disagree with the lower durability of the Omega being a matter of perception.

A large portion of the price tag on the Omega-300 is the expectation that you can send it back for repair, and it's quite obviously designed for ease of repair rather than outright durability.   That's a valid way to go about it, but it makes for a very different sort of can when you have it in one hand and a different can in the other hand.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 10:06:28 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Owning more than one of these, I'm going to disagree with the lower durability of the Omega being a matter of perception.

A large portion of the price tag on the Omega-300 is the expectation that you can send it back for repair, and it's quite obviously designed for ease of repair rather than outright durability.   That's a valid way to go about it, but it makes for a very different sort of can when you have it in one hand and a different can in the other hand.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Two other suppressors that compete well with the Razor and Sandman-S are the Vox-S and Omega-300.  You trade some perception of durability for weight and mount versatility and depending on what you are comparing to and host choices different sound/tone/backpressure levels.


Owning more than one of these, I'm going to disagree with the lower durability of the Omega being a matter of perception.

A large portion of the price tag on the Omega-300 is the expectation that you can send it back for repair, and it's quite obviously designed for ease of repair rather than outright durability.   That's a valid way to go about it, but it makes for a very different sort of can when you have it in one hand and a different can in the other hand.


Well, it’s definitely a trade, and how much is perception versus reality is somewhat user dependent.  

I was partly thinking of disingenuous comments that claim the Omega 300 is “glued together”.  I’ve shot both Vox-S and Omega-300 on full auto 5.56 to the same level I’m comfortable for keeping my barrels from early wear out (no more than 120 rounds before a cool down) and both are plenty durable for most users.

However there is no question in my mind that I’d be more comfortable running a Razor or Sandman harder. I just aren’t likely to ever need to.   Also some cast stellite doesn’t hold up much better than hardened 17-4.  The Vox-S may also not be practically any more durable under harsh conditions, conditions that most users will never subject it too.  The Vox-S not having a thin titanium sleeve gives it an edge in sturdy design over the Omega.  

Anyway, user’s perception of their own need is the other side of the perception comment.  If you never need a belt fed rated suppressor then the extra durability is objectively dead weight.  This reality is why Q can sell their cans with optimistic ratings letting the warranty cover people who abuse their design.  There is a natural trade between weight and durability.  It’s fairly common for people to buy the heavier “Built for life” models as their first cans, and then shop for something lighter that winds up getting more time out of the safe.

Link Posted: 5/9/2021 11:53:12 AM EDT
[#13]
No idea but I went with the sandman S and have keymo devices already mounted on the firearms I intend to suppress.
Link Posted: 5/10/2021 9:28:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
No idea but I went with the sandman S and have keymo devices already mounted on the firearms I intend to suppress.
View Quote

Your in good shape. I have an S, VOX S, Nomad L and Have a rugged surge in jail. they all do the same thing on super sonic rifles. That is make them marginally more pleasant to shoot.

If you find yourself looking for another (and you will) the VOX-S is hard or next to impossible to beat for the money.
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 7:22:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
 It’s fairly common for people to buy the heavier “Built for life” models as their first cans, and then shop for something lighter that winds up getting more time out of the safe.

View Quote


It's also not a bad choice, honestly, if you can only afford one can to begin with.   Relying on warranty service/repair is some degree of risk given the political environment.

People would be well served with any of these cans, realistically.
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