I do a lot of horse trading and such for my personal collection.

After getting an FFL all incoming guns need to be in the A&D Book?  Even those I trade for in a private transaction or purchase from another FFL?

What about guns from my personal collection that I want to sell or trade?  4473s for those as well?  

If so I guess this will stop my horse trading outside of the FFL.  

How many different answers will this get?

You have an FFL now, so let's look at it this way. AS you described it, could doing transactions off the books, be viewed as attempting to skirt your FFL obligation under federal law with background checks and etc.

While an activity may not be strictly illegal, certainly it has the appearance of impropriety.

You have an FFL, cover your butt, and just run it through the books. A background check is only your time now, and it keeps everything on the up and up.

I took the stance, before universal background checks were passed in my state, to run even my private sales through the FFL. It gives me legal cover and a documentation trail, which saved my rear when a gun i did a private sale on got stolen down the line and ended up at a crime scene.

Right or wrong, the way I see it is once you are a named license holder of an FFL, then your obligations as an individual should be thought of as one in the same.  I also hold an EMT license and here is the funny part, the good samaritan law does not over me the same way s a non-licensed person does because now I am considered a medical professional and can be held liable for my actions or lack of actions. This is even if the same exact actions performed by a regular civilian be considered to have no liability.

If the FFL is in your name, run *everything* through the FFL.

If the FFL is a corporation, run all sales through FFL. Maybe buy things for yourself, but if you ever divest it, log it in from you, log it out to whomever it's going to.

If you buy something as FFL and decide you want it, log it out to yourself.

This is not legal advice. It may even be illegal advice.

 
Do you already hold an FFL? If so, your IOI should have fully explained this during your initial interview.


The answer really depends on how you applied for your FFL and how your business is structured.
Did you apply as a sole proprietor? If so YOU individually are the licensee........you record every acquisition.
Or LLC or corporation? The LLC or corporation is the licensee and you are a responsible person. You record the aquisitions made by the business, but as noted above if word gets out that you are buying/selling/horsetrading guns and not recording them in your bound book prepare for ATF up your butt. You damned well better be able to separate personal vs business.



Again, it depends on how your business is structured, but in general you record all acquisitions and dispositions.
§478.125 Record of receipt and disposition.
(e) Firearms receipt and disposition by dealers. Each licensed dealer shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms. In addition, before commencing or continuing a firearms business, each licensed dealer shall inventory the firearms possessed for such business and shall record same in the record required by this paragraph. The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below. The purchase or other acquisition of a firearm shall, except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, be recorded not later than the close of the next business day following the date of such purchase or acquisition. The record shall show the date of receipt, the name and address or the name and license number of the person from whom received, the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any), the model, serial number, type, and the caliber or gauge of the firearm. The sale or other disposition of a firearm shall be recorded by the licensed dealer not later than 7 days following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to a nonlicensee, the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, obtained by the licensed dealer shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from the licensee's Form 4473 file and be readily available for inspection. When such disposition is made to a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from other commercial documents maintained by the licensed dealer, and be readily available for inspection. The record shall show the date of the sale or other disposition of each firearm, the name and address of the person to whom the firearm is transferred, or the name and license number of the person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, or the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, serial number if the licensed dealer transferring the firearm serially numbers the Forms 4473 and files them numerically. The format required for the record of receipt and disposition of firearms is as follows....





If the firearm has been in your personal collection for more than a year, no 4473 is required, only that you record the buyers name and address.
§478.125a   Personal firearms collection.
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of this subpart, a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer is not required to comply with the provisions of §478.102 or record on a firearms transaction record, Form 4473, the sale or other disposition of a firearm maintained as part of the licensee's personal firearms collection: Provided, That

(1) The licensee has maintained the firearm as part of such collection for 1 year from the date the firearm was transferred from the business inventory into the personal collection or otherwise acquired as a personal firearm,

(2) The licensee recorded in the bound record prescribed by §478.125(e) the receipt of the firearm into the business inventory or other acquisition,

(3) The licensee recorded the firearm as a disposition in the bound record prescribed by §478.125(e) when the firearm was transferred from the business inventory into the personal firearms collection or otherwise acquired as a personal firearm, and

(4) The licensee enters the sale or other disposition of the firearm from the personal firearms collection into a bound record, under the format prescribed below, identifying the firearm transferred by recording the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any), the model, serial number, type, and the caliber or gauge, and showing the date of the sale or other disposition, the name and address of the transferee, or the name and business address of the transferee if such person is a licensee, and the date of birth of the transferee if other than a licensee. In addition, the licensee shall cause the transferee, if other than a licensee, to be identified in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a drivers license). The format required for the disposition record of personal firearms is as follows:

Disposition Record of Personal Firearms

Description of firearmDisposition
Manufacturer and importer (if any)ModelSerial No.TypeCaliber or gaugeDateName and address (business address if licensee)Date of birth if nonlicensee
 
(b) Any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer selling or otherwise disposing of a firearm from the licensee's personal firearms collection under this section shall be subject to the restrictions imposed by the Act and this part on the dispositions of firearms by persons other than licensed manufacturers, licensed importers, and licensed dealers.
In short, want ATF up your ass? Then don't record. If you want a happy IOI, then when you dispose of a gun from your "personal collection" you record as  an acquisition from yourself, then dispose to the buyer via 4473/NICS.






Horse trading is what will get you in trouble.

You don't need to do that if you are a sole proprietor. If an LLC or corporation and want the gun for your "personal collection" then you would need to do a 4473/NICS on yourself.

Ours is set up as an LLC. We started logging in what we purchase face to face once we got our license. The FFL pays the bills. I feel comfortable with it that way

Honestly it is pretty rare that someone is trying to sell something I feel is worth buying. 99.5% of what we take in is for resale anyway.

Great timing here, I just mailed my application today and was wondering about how private purchases for my collection could be handled. My FFL will be under an LLC.

WE all have the questions. I think what it comes down to is where you want to spend your time and effort.

Do you want to spend your timing making your personal documentation so tight that the ATF could not draw any other conclusion than an individual engaging in a private activity. Or would you rather just run the background checks and etc through the FFL and save yourself the trouble in the future.

The moment that the first gun you did a transfer for ends up at a double homicide scene, you will have a lot of people coming to knock at your door. That is the time your documentation is going to keep you floating or sink you in a costly criminal trial.

remember, your already paying the FFL fees. a background check costs you nothing (unless your state has a fee for it). You get all of the protections for just a possible small papercut.