User Panel
Posted: 1/18/2019 11:35:45 PM EDT
I would use this mostly for a range toy/plinking. What would be the better choice as far as aftermarket parts, choices etc? My only reservation is the cost.
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I can't say anything about the CMMG but this thing is a blast. The aftermarket for it is booming!
Even Magpul has announced that it is now making parts and mags for it. I took the Scorpion to shoot the PPC side match at my monthly IDPA. I had not fired a single round from it beforehand, and WON ($75!). That really impressed me and a lot of other people with the Scorp. |
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Scorpion. Used by 35-40 military and police units around the world.
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I would use this mostly for a range toy/plinking. What would be the better choice as far as aftermarket parts, choices etc? My only reservation is the cost. View Quote I think it currently the only delayed blowback pistol caliber offering for the AR market today....maybe something will be unveiled at Shot Show this coming week by FM Products? Who knows. Anyways, for today considering your criteria. I'd definitely recommend the CMMG Guard/Banshee. CMMG was previously only offering their 8" barrel combo separately but now you can get the 5". https://www.cmmginc.com/product/56086barrel-and-bcg-kit-5-4140cm-sbn-9mm/ For $350 retail, you can get the proprietary BCG and barrel as pictured below. Then get basically any AR/M16 aftermarket part you want. Being that only the BCG and barrel are proprietary and the rest are standard AR parts, it opens you up to way more aftermarket options than the CZ or any other PCC/SMG platform on the planet....... All kinds of buffers/springs/stocks/uppers/lowers/rails/triggers for the standard AR platform are now options with this platform. For mags, you have several options for the Guard/Banshee as well. You don't have to go with their Glock lower. I am also using undmodified Colt mags which does require some work. My steps to do that here: http://c3junkie.com/?page_id=597 Or just use the new Mean Arms Endomags as discussed here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Anyone-seen-this-MEAN-Arms-9mm-adpater-/15-728601/?page=11 You don't have to mod anything with the Endomags. Use any standard AR lower, Endomag adapter and any Gen2 or 3 Pmag. Out of all 3 options, I like the Endomags the most. I know some other people have been messing with those MP5 upper/lower receiver sets on the Guard as well to use unmodified MP5 mags but I have no experience with that....you also lose last round BHO if you go the MP5 mag route. |
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I can't say anything about the CMMG but this thing is a blast. The aftermarket for it is booming! Even Magpul has announced that it is now making parts and mags for it. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/15109/CZ_PDW_1_jpg-812910.JPG View Quote |
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Quoted: I just picked up my grey scorpion yesterday, needs some goodies for it. What optic and light you running on yours? View Quote The optic runs fine but not my first choice. I'm going to go with a Trij RMR in the near future. |
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I can't say anything about the CMMG but this thing is a blast. The aftermarket for it is booming! Even Magpul has announced that it is now making parts and mags for it. I took the Scorpion to shoot the PPC side match at my monthly IDPA. I had not fired a single round from it beforehand, and WON ($75!). That really impressed me and alot of other people with the Scorp. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/15109/CZ_PDW_1_jpg-812910.JPG View Quote Steve |
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I can't say anything about the CMMG but this thing is a blast. The aftermarket for it is booming! Even Magpul has announced that it is now making parts and mags for it. I took the Scorpion to shoot the PPC side match at my monthly IDPA. I had not fired a single round from it beforehand, and WON ($75!). That really impressed me and a lot of other people with the Scorp. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/15109/CZ_PDW_1_jpg-812910.JPG View Quote |
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Quoted: Sounds like I should get a Scorpion then. Where'd you get that brace? View Quote I bought mine from Tactical Shit. Apex Tactical Specialties grip HB Industries THETA trigger with reduced weight trigger kit, AK Style safety selectors (ambi), and paddle mag release Kaw Valley linear compensator SB Tactical CZPDW brace along with the previously mentioned light and optic |
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I have both.
EVO Carbine Banshee/Guard both in 9mm Banshee is lighter (duh, carbine over braced pistol) both as accurate and reliable. BUT, the best part is the CMMG can accept a better trigger. I had a POF 3 lb drop in laying around, so in it went. I call it a wash other than weight (in favor of the CMMG). |
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Had another thought. Wait until the Scorpion Evo S2 comes out or get a S1 and get the brace? Money wise what would be the more inexpensive option?
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I have a Scorpion and want a Banshee. If it wasn't for the cost i'd already have one. I think they are a bit pricey. I will most likely build a 9mm AR in 2019 and use the Ripstock.
I have yet to have one issue with my Scorpion. It shoots everything i put in it and i never clean it. Just keep adding oil. IMO its the best bang for the buck 9mm PC. To me the other offerings on the market are crazy expensive. I don't have a tone of cash in mine (HBI spring kit, HBI grip, HBI trigger, stock kit, I dremeled off the right hand side safety lever, PA red-dot, suppressed and sbr'ed). Any other upgrades are unnecessary IMO but that's me. Mines a range toy and my kids love it. I wish Geissele would make a trigger for it. |
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I have both. The Evo is SBR'd with a factory stock and HBI short handguard and a chopped barrel for the K configuration. The CMMG Mkgs is a 9mm pistol 8" barrel Key mod handguard and SBA3 brace. Both guns are running HK parts three lug adapter for use with my Griffin Optimus. In my case there really isn't any weight difference between the two. My CMMG is technically heavier, but only because it has a Streamlight Pro Tac 1 on an Arisaka Offset scount mount and a Cloud Defense switch mount.
The Scorpion needs some upgrades for my needs out of the box. Mine has a number of upgrades from HBI, but the minimum would be a right side AK safety or delete, trigger springs, and an extended charging handle. The CMMG depending on what level you get might not need anything, but it is more expensive. My CMMG Mkgs was bought used as a base pistol. I added the SBA3 brace, Geisselle trigger, BCM charging handle, light, red dot and backups. I am not a fan of the stock CZ sights. On the factory stock it seems I have to get really low to use them. I still keep them on, but I've started using a Bushnell TRS25 red dot. The red dot is a higher and more comfortable to see. I may remove the stock fixed CZ sights and just go with only a red dot. How do they shoot? Both for the most part shoot very well with some differences. The heavy bolt of the Scorpion is noticeable and adds to the recoil impulse. I would have never noticed this until I got a MP5 clone. The RDB of the CMMG really does work. The bolt is lighter and it shoots a little softer than the Scorpion. They have both been fairly reliable, but I've had some minor stoppages in both. I'm shooting both suppressed and the CMMG seems to be a little more gassy. After the last range visit it was absolutely filthy with a few hundred rounds down range. I don't remember the CZ getting that dirty, but I haven't shot it in a while. Its been a while since I've had the Scorpion out so maybe a range day is in order comparing the Scorpion, CMMG, and the MP5 all back to back. |
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Any Banshee owners want to chime in on how it feeds JHP's? I know that can be an issue with some of the PCC's out there now.
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As another Evo owner if I had my choice today I would go banshee. Just my .02
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The scorpion is a blast. As some have mentioned there are a few things that NEED to be fixed ie. the safety and grip. There’s a huge and growing aftermarket. I’ve heard great things about the cmmg, I hear that it’s a delayed roller setup of some sort that is really smooth and tons of fun to shoot. I can’t sway you away from either but from experience, the scorpion is cool.
ETA: someone needs to come out with a good trigger in a bad way. I have the HBI spring kit and a different shoe. Helps some but still not great. I would imagine the CMMG has the scorpion beat in the trigger department. |
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ETA: someone needs to come out with a good trigger in a bad way. I have the HBI spring kit and a different shoe. Helps some but still not great. I would imagine the CMMG has the scorpion beat in the trigger department. View Quote |
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The scorpion is a blast. As some have mentioned there are a few things that NEED to be fixed ie. the safety and grip. There’s a huge and growing aftermarket. I’ve heard great things about the cmmg, I hear that it’s a delayed roller setup of some sort that is really smooth and tons of fun to shoot. I can’t sway you away from either but from experience, the scorpion is cool. ETA: someone needs to come out with a good trigger in a bad way. I have the HBI spring kit and a different shoe. Helps some but still not great. I would imagine the CMMG has the scorpion beat in the trigger department. View Quote ShootingSight at the moment does not have the trigger listed on their website, however there is this video on the trigger. BlackCollar Arms has their trigger listed, but they are only taking a deposit at the moment https://blackcollararms.com/product/drop-in-scorpitrol/ |
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Quoted: The trigger shoe does absolutely nothing save for a flat faced trigger, you may pull it slightly differently but the break doesn't change. I have the Yetiwurks adjustable trigger with the HBI spring and it's pretty amazing for $50 in parts. It has almost 0 pre travel and the over travel isn't too bad either once you set it up. I am kinda curious on the new 2 stage trigger pack by Black Collar and while $200 isn't terrible compared to the CZ custom, I'm not sure how much better it would be over the $50 setup I have now. View Quote |
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The shoes have different geometry that reduces felt pull weight. I’ll be giving a two stage a try. The trigger is the worse thing about the scorpion hands down. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: The trigger shoe does absolutely nothing save for a flat faced trigger, you may pull it slightly differently but the break doesn't change. I have the Yetiwurks adjustable trigger with the HBI spring and it's pretty amazing for $50 in parts. It has almost 0 pre travel and the over travel isn't too bad either once you set it up. I am kinda curious on the new 2 stage trigger pack by Black Collar and while $200 isn't terrible compared to the CZ custom, I'm not sure how much better it would be over the $50 setup I have now. |
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Scorpion recoil is worse then a AR. Colt 6951 with a KAK 10oz is pretty soft. Scorpion trigger isn’t very good. I find the banshee softer shooting. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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CZ Scorp all day long. 9mm AR's are craptastic. Quoted:
The shoes have different geometry that reduces felt pull weight. I’ll be giving a two stage a try. The trigger is the worse thing about the scorpion hands down. Really hope this new trigger is as good as they say it is. I just hate start up companies that come out of nowhere and expect you to fund there projects. |
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Well shit. Now I'm seriously thinking about the Banshee again. I sure as hell don't have that amount of funds. Will Banshee prices ever be similar to the CZ?
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Well shit. Now I'm seriously thinking about the Banshee again. I sure as hell don't have that amount of funds. Will Banshee prices ever be similar to the CZ? View Quote I'm currently shopping for a new PCC and can find the 200 series Banshee in 9mm for 900 to 1000. Already has a brace so to shoot just add your irons/red dot of choice. Scorpion is ~750, but you have to add at least a brace, do some kind of work to the safety, and that gets you close to the Banshee cost |
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Well shit. Now I'm seriously thinking about the Banshee again. I sure as hell don't have that amount of funds. Will Banshee prices ever be similar to the CZ? View Quote If so, just get the Banshee BCG and barrel for $349 retail. Then get a cheapo upper and slap it all together on the cheap. https://www.cmmginc.com/product/56086barrel-and-bcg-kit-5-4140cm-sbn-9mm/ |
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