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Posted: 3/3/2021 9:58:30 PM EDT
[#1]
I have a chance to purchase a NIB Bren2 MS carbine (no sights or optic) for a fair price in today's market . After reading the last several pages of issues, I assume I should look at another non-AR rifle?
If I was to purchase the Bren, have any of the military type carbine handguard or brakes ever showed up on the open market? |
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Posted: 3/3/2021 11:09:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rw66: I have a chance to purchase a NIB Bren2 MS carbine (no sights or optic) for a fair price in today's market . After reading the last several pages of issues, I assume I should look at another non-AR rifle? If I was to purchase the Bren, have any of the military type carbine handguard or brakes ever showed up on the open market? Yeah I was hoping to get something in 556 in the piston format and the bren was at the top until I read this thread. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/3/2021 11:23:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jkitchen: Yeah I was hoping to get something in 556 in the piston format and the bren was at the top until I read this thread. The 5.56 Bren 2 is a great gun. Very few issues with it. 1 person had some bad damage to his extension lugs but other than that I havent heard any issues at all with the 5.56 model. Some peening on the lugs is normal for piston guns. Nothing to worry about as it happens with fn scar, Lmt, Acr and so on. Buy the 5.56 with confidence you are getting a really good weapon. |
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Posted: 3/3/2021 11:40:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Scheels in Coralville, IA, has a 14" Bren 2 5.55 pistol in stock for IIRC $1699. Was just there earlier today, just an FYI for anyone looking.
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Posted: 3/4/2021 10:21:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rw66: I have a chance to purchase a NIB Bren2 MS carbine (no sights or optic) for a fair price in today's market . After reading the last several pages of issues, I assume I should look at another non-AR rifle? If I was to purchase the Bren, have any of the military type carbine handguard or brakes ever showed up on the open market? I am quite happy with mine. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2021 10:31:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Bren 2 MS 5.56 8" model is super, easy choice over a SCAR in my opinion. Runs great and accurate!
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CO, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2021 11:32:33 AM EDT
[#7]
Yes,yes,and yes
HBI and Dan Haga have everything and every combination of stock or brace you could want. Lucky Irishman makes a ACR adapter if the other guys are sold out.... and they usually are. |
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Posted: 3/6/2021 9:07:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: esdunbar]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gonnasellstuff: The 5.56 Bren 2 is a great gun. Very few issues with it. 1 person had some bad damage to his extension lugs but other than that I havent heard any issues at all with the 5.56 model. Some peening on the lugs is normal for piston guns. Nothing to worry about as it happens with fn scar, Lmt, Acr and so on. Buy the 5.56 with confidence you are getting a really good weapon. I have 5 scars, 4 Virtus', 2 POF 415's a Tavor X95 and a Sig 516 (all piston guns...probably more that I can't recall). Not a single one of them have damage to the lugs like my two Bren 2's do. Can you show pics of the guns I've mentioned with damaged lugs like we're seeing on the Bren? Respectfully, I think your comment is very wrong. Also, it's not "one guy." Numerous of us have reported the same issue in this thread. |
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Posted: 3/6/2021 9:37:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By esdunbar: I have 5 scars, 4 Virtus', 2 POF 415's a Tavor X95 and a Sig 516 (all piston guns...probably more that I can't recall). Not a single one of them have damage to the lugs like my two Bren 2's do. Can you show pics of the guns I've mentioned with damaged lugs like we're seeing on the Bren? Respectfully, I think your comment is very wrong. Also, it's not "one guy." Numerous of us have reported the same issue in this thread. Can't speak to all of them, but just do a quick Google search and you'll see that many people mention the same thing with their SCAR 16. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/6/2021 10:42:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MeatAxe556]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By esdunbar: I have 5 scars, 4 Virtus', 2 POF 415's a Tavor X95 and a Sig 516 (all piston guns...probably more that I can't recall). Not a single one of them have damage to the lugs like my two Bren 2's do. Can you show pics of the guns I've mentioned with damaged lugs like we're seeing on the Bren? Respectfully, I think your comment is very wrong. Also, it's not "one guy." Numerous of us have reported the same issue in this thread. Are you using the aftermarket hbi hand guard on your Bren 2’s with this damage? Are yours 2MS or 2S models? It’s funny we aren’t hearing of any FTE problems or damaged barrel lugs on the military / full auto Brens that have been in circulation for a while in large numbers, no massive recalls on military contracts, etc. But apparently the full auto Brens have a heavier bolt carrier with a couple of sprung weights in them. It seems to me that the civilian semi-auto Bren 2’s, especially here in the US, are getting the short shrift from CZ, various problems and no parts or service to fix them. We don’t hear about these issues on their military contract rifles. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/6/2021 11:13:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By esdunbar: I have 5 scars, 4 Virtus', 2 POF 415's a Tavor X95 and a Sig 516 (all piston guns...probably more that I can't recall). Not a single one of them have damage to the lugs like my two Bren 2's do. Can you show pics of the guns I've mentioned with damaged lugs like we're seeing on the Bren? Respectfully, I think your comment is very wrong. Also, it's not "one guy." Numerous of us have reported the same issue in this thread. Its not wrong. Do a search and you will see many many many posts on fn forums and also here on ar15.com. I have 5 scars 9 Bren 2s models 4 Sig xi's and they did all have minor lug peening on them. Not a big deal. The example of the original poster that had major damage is different and Cz should replace. Something major wrong on his example. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:03:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dump1567: I don't know if you watch Military Arms Channel, but his current favorite rifle is the Virtus. And there's probably not a rifle he hasn't shot or owned. Eh. His favorite rifle tends to change pretty regularly based on what he's reviewing. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:13:33 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rw66: I have a chance to purchase a NIB Bren2 MS carbine (no sights or optic) for a fair price in today's market . After reading the last several pages of issues, I assume I should look at another non-AR rifle? If I was to purchase the Bren, have any of the military type carbine handguard or brakes ever showed up on the open market? The x39's have had some issues. The 5.56 ones are fine. Beyond fine, really. My MS2 in 5.56 is my favorite rifle. Haven't seen the brakes or handguards, but there are aftermarket options. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:16:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ShadowAngel]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By esdunbar: I have 5 scars, 4 Virtus', 2 POF 415's a Tavor X95 and a Sig 516 (all piston guns...probably more that I can't recall). Not a single one of them have damage to the lugs like my two Bren 2's do. Can you show pics of the guns I've mentioned with damaged lugs like we're seeing on the Bren? Respectfully, I think your comment is very wrong. Also, it's not "one guy." Numerous of us have reported the same issue in this thread. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By esdunbar: Originally Posted By gonnasellstuff: The 5.56 Bren 2 is a great gun. Very few issues with it. 1 person had some bad damage to his extension lugs but other than that I havent heard any issues at all with the 5.56 model. Some peening on the lugs is normal for piston guns. Nothing to worry about as it happens with fn scar, Lmt, Acr and so on. Buy the 5.56 with confidence you are getting a really good weapon. I have 5 scars, 4 Virtus', 2 POF 415's a Tavor X95 and a Sig 516 (all piston guns...probably more that I can't recall). Not a single one of them have damage to the lugs like my two Bren 2's do. Can you show pics of the guns I've mentioned with damaged lugs like we're seeing on the Bren? Respectfully, I think your comment is very wrong. Also, it's not "one guy." Numerous of us have reported the same issue in this thread. Respectfully, as someone who owns most of those rifles other than the virtus, i've seen similar wear on the lugs. And there are tons of pictures on the net of similar wear on said weapons as well. Do you shoot yours much? I have to wonder a bit on individual round counts if you've got half a dozen scars, 4 virtus', etc. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2021 1:04:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SigChef]
[#15]
Stamp finally came in. Has an Eotech Exps2-0 on it but not in the pic. Can is a Chimera 300, stock is a Lage, HBI rail, trigger and charging handle.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 2:50:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA]
[#16]
Until I can stamp it, this will have to do in the meantime. While I wish I had the 11inch model, this little gun is really growing on me. Light weight and very nice handling. Still need to install my DA FH for suppressed fun.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 2:50:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA]
[#17]
Misfire.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 3:10:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ShadowAngel: Eh. His favorite rifle tends to change pretty regularly based on what he's reviewing. However, his daily carry pistol tends to be a CZ P-01.  
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Posted: 3/8/2021 3:11:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC_JA: Until I can stamp it, this will have to do in the meantime. While I wish I had the 11inch model, this little gun is really growing on me. Light weight and very nice handling. Still need to install my DA FH for suppressed fun. https://i.imgur.com/JJ5BhoM.jpg [/url] I wanted the 9 inch, but a person VERY much in the know said the 11 was a tack driver, and he was right. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 6:03:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By armoredman: I wanted the 9 inch, but a person VERY much in the know said the 11 was a tack driver, and he was right. I know not of such things. I just wanted the 11 for a more rounded out carbine (ballistically). But they are are/were unobtainium when I picked up mine. But why is the 11inch more accurate? Short barrels of the same profile tend to be stiffer and thus more accurate. They just don't have as much legs. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 11:39:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Manticore_Arms]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC_JA: I know not of such things. I just wanted the 11 for a more rounded out carbine (ballistically). But they are are/were unobtainium when I picked up mine. But why is the 11inch more accurate? Short barrels of the same profile tend to be stiffer and thus more accurate. They just don't have as much legs. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC_JA: Originally Posted By armoredman: I wanted the 9 inch, but a person VERY much in the know said the 11 was a tack driver, and he was right. I know not of such things. I just wanted the 11 for a more rounded out carbine (ballistically). But they are are/were unobtainium when I picked up mine. But why is the 11inch more accurate? Short barrels of the same profile tend to be stiffer and thus more accurate. They just don't have as much legs. Barrel harmonics might play into it, 11 inch might be the sweet spot. Or the person may have only tested an 11 inch barrel and did not have a 9 inch as an indepemdent data point Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 3/9/2021 10:58:36 PM EDT
[#22]
There is an 11” pistol at a gun store near by for $1900. It’s very tempting. But I feel like I would have to dump $1000 into it immediately with a stamp, stock, rail and other minor upgrades....
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Posted: 3/9/2021 11:15:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Barrel harmonics might play into it, 11 inch might be the sweet spot. Or the person may have only tested an 11 inch barrel and did not have a 9 inch as an indepemdent data point Sven Manticore Arms Oh, he knew...he had shot them all... |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/10/2021 8:04:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: benbangui]
[#24]
Does anyone know a solid dude or company that I can send my 14.5 pistol barrel to cut down to 11? I talked and read to a few people saying how a bunch of 14” pistons where imported and sold fast. They where Alluding to the idea that people where using 14” pistons on 11” barrels with success. I also hear that taking the trunions off, are almost impossible. so most common gunsmiths don’t want to mess with chopping their barrels.
Anyway, my desire and question is... (1) does anyone know someone that would chop, crown and thread a 5.56 bren2 barrel? More specifically someone who has successfully already done it. (2) do you think I would need to have the piston ports drilled? One dude gave me the impression they are already over gassed... so the 14” piston on a 11” barrel would actually be ideal. But man... my 14” shoots smooooooth already. I would hate to ruin it, But damn the 11”s are sExy... Ps: sorry if my terminology and words used are wrong. Thanks for help/advice in advance 
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/10/2021 8:37:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: benbangui]
[#25]
 Failed To Load Title https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LfwCYvSC_HQ |
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Posted: 3/10/2021 9:59:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By benbangui: Does anyone know a solid dude or company that I can send my 14.5 pistol barrel to cut down to 11? I talked and read to a few people saying how a bunch of 14” pistons where imported and sold fast. They where Alluding to the idea that people where using 14” pistons on 11” barrels with success. I also hear that taking the trunions off, are almost impossible. so most common gunsmiths don’t want to mess with chopping their barrels. Anyway, my desire and question is... (1) does anyone know someone that would chop, crown and thread a 5.56 bren2 barrel? More specifically someone who has successfully already done it. (2) do you think I would need to have the piston ports drilled? One dude gave me the impression they are already over gassed... so the 14” piston on a 11” barrel would actually be ideal. But man... my 14” shoots smooooooth already. I would hate to ruin it, But damn the 11”s are sExy... Ps: sorry if my terminology and words used are wrong. Thanks for help/advice in advance You could contact Adco. They've been around for years. https://adcofirearms.com/products/gunsmithing/ And in CA: http://ar15barrels.com/ But I'd just turn a 14" into a rifle. In fact, I have a 14" 7.62 I needed to take to a guy for a pin & weld to do just that. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/10/2021 2:20:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By benbangui: Does anyone know a solid dude or company that I can send my 14.5 pistol barrel to cut down to 11? I talked and read to a few people saying how a bunch of 14” pistons where imported and sold fast. They where Alluding to the idea that people where using 14” pistons on 11” barrels with success. I also hear that taking the trunions off, are almost impossible. so most common gunsmiths don’t want to mess with chopping their barrels. Anyway, my desire and question is... (1) does anyone know someone that would chop, crown and thread a 5.56 bren2 barrel? More specifically someone who has successfully already done it. (2) do you think I would need to have the piston ports drilled? One dude gave me the impression they are already over gassed... so the 14” piston on a 11” barrel would actually be ideal. But man... my 14” shoots smooooooth already. I would hate to ruin it, But damn the 11”s are sExy... Ps: sorry if my terminology and words used are wrong. Thanks for help/advice in advance Im gonna send my 14" 7.62x39 to Class 3 Machining to have cut down and threaded 1/2-28. Then use a Silencerco 1/2-28 .30 ASR Flash Hider or Brake. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/10/2021 2:53:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hoevito]
[#28]
Absolutely love my 11" X39. Relatively low round count as of now (under 1k rounds, probably around 450-500 so far) but no issues yet, and after a few upgrades it's perfect IMO. Installed the HBI piston spring in mine after the first few mags, ejection consistently 3 o clock since. No abnormal wear, and other than shooting fireballs occasionally from the gas relief port, it's just run. The trigger is great (stock and even better with the HBI), it's super lightweight, and handles infinitely better than any AK.
Planning on using the HBI gas port service and suppressing later this year, but as of now it's hands down one of my favorite guns. Far as the fireballs the gun shoots under the handguard, I'm pretty sure that's limited to the X39 model due to the fact most of us shoot cheap steal and we all know that stuff does not use flash retardant powders...a non issue either way, just shoot better ammo or plan on not using it with NODS lol... |
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Posted: 3/10/2021 5:38:57 PM EDT
[#29]
I need a Colt branded Bren 2. Then I’ll be on board...
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Posted: 3/10/2021 7:21:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WantsAnRRA: I need a Colt branded Bren 2. Then I’ll be on board... Now THAT I would like to see. |
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Posted: 3/11/2021 9:35:05 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WantsAnRRA: I need a Colt branded Bren 2. Then I’ll be on board... This is what I been saying. It would be a instant success all they would need is one small foreign contract and the colt barrels. 
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Posted: 3/11/2021 11:01:09 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SigChef: Stamp finally came in. Has an Eotech Exps2-0 on it but not in the pic. Can is a Chimera 300, stock is a Lage, HBI rail, trigger and charging handle. https://i.imgur.com/Of015d7.jpg That is a very nice set-up and what I'm planning on. Which HBI rail is that - it looks a little different than what's on their website (?). |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2021 11:15:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rw66: That is a very nice set-up and what I'm planning on. Which HBI rail is that - it looks a little different than what's on their website (?). That’s the old style 10” rail. The new HBI rails (new as of like two weeks ago) have a cutout for access to the gas system. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2021 2:11:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: benbangui]
[#34]
Awesome! Thank you! I contacted Adco and they even have a fn/CZ barrel chopping option to select from.
Now the next question I’m trying to figure out: I plan to get the hbi 10.8 handguard. People online say 11” and 14” barrels.... But that means 11.5 and 14.5 In measurement correct? If the 10.8 handguard is essentially .20 less then 11”... I would need a actual 11.5 barrel... cause the threading will come back .50” on the barrel. Bringing the flash/brake back to 11” allowing .20 clearance on the break/muzzle device. So... if I’m having adco cut my 14.5 barrel down... I should have them cut it to 11.5 correct? Thanks in advance :) |
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Posted: 3/12/2021 2:30:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MagnusActual]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By benbangui: Awesome! Thank you! I contacted Adco and they even have a fn/CZ barrel chopping option to select from. Now the next question I'm trying to figure out: I plan to get the hbi 10.8 handguard. People online say 11" and 14" barrels.... But that means 11.5 and 14.5 In measurement correct? If the 10.8 handguard is essentially .20 less then 11"... I would need a actual 11.5 barrel... cause the threading will come back .50" on the barrel. Bringing the flash/brake back to 11" allowing .20 clearance on the break/muzzle device. So... if I'm having adco cut my 14.5 barrel down... I should have them cut it to 11.5 correct? Thanks in advance :) The barrel length on the "11" Bren 2Ms ( both 5.56/7.62) is 11.14". So don't go shorter than that and you should be good. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2021 8:12:35 AM EDT
[#36]
The few that have the carbine model any reviews? Experiencing any of the same problems as pistol models?
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Posted: 3/13/2021 9:19:53 AM EDT
[#37]
The carbine version is only in 5.56mm, so nope.
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USA
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Posted: 3/13/2021 11:42:52 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By armoredman: The carbine version is only in 5.56mm, so nope. Since the carbine hasn’t been out for long, and since there’s an ammo shortage, at this point, I would say “not yet.” |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:42:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sweet5ltr]
[#39]
Look forward to redemption for the Bren 2 (x39) in the near future. Absolutely astonishing how CZ-USA / CZUB allowed the reputation of this incredible firearm to tank since release. I've noticed even Zack has ghosted us here, they aren't even trying anymore to keep us updated on the situation. It's like, WTH CZ-USA.
I love my Bren 2S, but if it was a standard 2Ms, it would have been returned for a refund immediately, ordering a Robinson's Armament (x39) pistol the same day. This platform has no appeal to me in 5.56x45, it's all about 7.62x39. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/13/2021 6:47:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sweet5ltr: Look forward to redemption for the Bren 2 (x39) in the near future. Absolutely astonishing how CZ-USA / CZUB allowed the reputation of this incredible firearm to tank since release. I've noticed even Zack has ghosted us here, they aren't even trying anymore to keep us updated on the situation. It's like, WTH CZ-USA. I love my Bren 2S, but if it was a standard 2Ms, it would have been returned for a refund immediately, ordering a Robinson's Armament (x39) pistol the same day. This platform has no appeal to me in 5.56x45, it's all about 7.62x39. This is exactly what happened with the Sig 556xi. They completely left all of us behind because they knew they were dropping the platform and moving on to a different platform. Id bet Cz is working on a different platform as we speak. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2021 9:54:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grinning: That’s the old style 10” rail. The new HBI rails (new as of like two weeks ago) have a cutout for access to the gas system. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grinning: Originally Posted By rw66: That is a very nice set-up and what I'm planning on. Which HBI rail is that - it looks a little different than what's on their website (?). That’s the old style 10” rail. The new HBI rails (new as of like two weeks ago) have a cutout for access to the gas system. @rw66 This. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2021 1:15:00 AM EDT
[#42]
Is the Bren Battle Rifle releasing soon?
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NE, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2021 1:27:54 AM EDT
[#43]
Does anyone have a line on in stock x39 mags? I'm doing a 3gun shoot with my 2ms, I have 2 but to be safe I'd like a 3rd, but no where has them in stock.
With everyone oos, it makes me wonder if production on accessories/parts has stopped... |
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Posted: 3/17/2021 1:41:32 AM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 3/17/2021 1:42:25 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seattle206: Is the Bren Battle Rifle releasing soon? No word on the Bren 2 BR yet. It hasn't even been announced yet for civilian sales in Europe. |
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Posted: 3/17/2021 8:29:22 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By POG926: Love mine. Gonna SBR it in a few weeks. 11.5" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/105574/received_208383570839886_jpeg-1868692.JPG Did you coat up a factory stock to match? Love the color by the way! |
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Posted: 3/17/2021 10:49:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hodgi_: Does anyone have a line on in stock x39 mags? I'm doing a 3gun shoot with my 2ms, I have 2 but to be safe I'd like a 3rd, but no where has them in stock. With everyone oos, it makes me wonder if production on accessories/parts has stopped... I got in stock alerts from 2 places a couple weeks ago. There's also some for sale in the EE |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 3/20/2021 9:06:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sweet5ltr: This platform has no appeal to me in 5.56x45, it's all about 7.62x39. Same here. I bought my 2S to replace my SLR107FR. |
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Posted: 3/23/2021 4:34:54 PM EDT
[#49]
I figured I'd swoop on this import before O'Biden bans it (or they're made domestically in the Colt Factory?). It was offer I couldn't refuse. $1650 OTD NIB. One of my local shops loves giving these away for cheap. I bought both my 7.62's from them for under $1600. Can't say that about my 5.56's I bought elsewhere.
Do all 14" 5.56's come with bayo lug? I'll probably convert this to a rifle, but I found a brace in the garage to serve as a place holder until than. 
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USA
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Posted: 3/23/2021 8:20:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dump1567: I figured I'd swoop on this import before O'Biden bans it (or they're made domestically in the Colt Factory?). It was offer I couldn't refuse. $1650 OTD NIB. One of my local shops loves giving these away for cheap. I bought both my 7.62's from them for under $1600. Can't say that about my 5.56's I bought elsewhere. Do all 14" 5.56's come with bayo lug? I'll probably convert this to a rifle, but I found a brace in the garage to serve as a place holder until than. https://i.imgur.com/IxkGUbl.jpg Most Ms models didnt come with a bayo lug. A few left over S Model barrels with bayo lugs were used with the Ms models. |
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