Got an itch for a bullpup and started eyeballing the PS90.  Yea, yea, yea, I've been watching Stargate lately.  However proprietary mags and a new ammo I have nothing else that shoots is kind of a turn off for me.  So I began looking at the others.

Steyr AUG was also a turn off until I found out about the NATO stocked rifles that take regular mags and not STANAGs.  I've handled the Tavor a bunch but never became enamored with it.  I also looked at the Hellion when it first came out but it had bad reviews at the time and compared heavily to the Tavor.

I am leaning heavily towards the NATO AUG in OD green with the factory 3x optic.  But I've never handled one in RL.

For the money and what it brings to the table...I have most of the bullpups on your list.

I think the Keltec Rdb..

Its light weight, very affordable, tunable gas system, suppressor ready, the best trigger out of the bullpups in the poll and as accurate as any of the other bullpups..

Heck with the money you save buying an Rdb, you can pick up alot of ammo vs buying a Hellion or Aug.

IWI X95 5.56mm

After that, buy a IWI TS12. You will not regret either!

I went through the same thing about 6 months ago, handled just about every bullpup currently available.
I've previously owned the PS90 & STG-556 (AUG clone) & recently the RDB.

I wanted more than a range toy and after examining the internals of the RDB decided I didn't want to take a chance on Kel-Tec's QC. Yes, the RDB was 100% after adjusting the gas system, but the overall construction left me cold.

The AUG (imho) is an outdated design badly in need of modernization. However, I would take it in a heartbeat over the RDB and probably over the Hellion.

I couldn't get over the Hellion's trigger or LOP, and it didn't help the bbl isn't the military bbl.

PS90 is a fun (albeit pricey) gun. Spousal unit loves it, but it's still a PCC.

That left me w/the Tavor X95. Rugged, reliable, battle-proven design. Better trigger out of the box than any of the others I tried and can be improved w/an aftermarket hammerpack (pricey, though).
Bbl is chf/cl, lots of rail space for accessories, easy to strip/clean (doesn't need much in the way of cleaning/lubing), some decent aftermarket support but spare parts are hard to come by.
Optics rail is lower than on an AR so plan accordingly (an optic that's 1/3 cowitness on an AR will be absolute cowitness on an X95), the Meprolight RDS Pro v2, M21 & Tru-Vision were designed for the X95 so provide a 1/3 cowitness as-is.
However, the gas system isn't adjustable so the X95 isn't as suppressor-friendly as the Hellion or RDB.

Hindsight is 20/20 and looking back I'm still glad I went w/the X95 (ymmv).

Attached File

X95

I like my RDB...just want to get the rail handguard for it. Its been very reliable for me. I had a Tavor SAR, and thought I would like it, but the ergos never grew on me, so I sold it.

1.  X95 is probably you best modern choice
2.  If you want a cheap bullpup that you aren't sure if you might like Bullpups: RDB
3.  If you are interested in waiting about 6 months, Desert Tech is releasing the WLVRN which could be the best bullpup coming to market in a few months.  Assuming it is reliable/performs (reason to wait for reviews)

I have a Tavor Sar, x95 and a NATO Aug. I love all three but my x95 is the favorite. The Aug seems a little lighter but not modern enough. The aftermarket is there but more for the standard stock model. I had an RDB and sold it. Way too much plastic. It’s a range toy in my opinion. Nothing for hard use.

I have my Sar on the EE, but I’m hoping it doesn’t sell. I would regret it.

If it’s your first, I would go x95 and then try an Aug.

I’m excited to see this one when it comes out. I do wonder how it will perform.

I am also excited to the Wlvrn! It represents the cumulative updates users have called for in the MDR/MDRX.

I doubt there will be any change in accuracy to the intermediate guns..Really want to see if it has less barrel harmonic issues in 308..

Skeptical on the weight tho...For YEARS DT has been saying their MDR and even later with the side ejecting MDRX was announced as being 7.8lbs or less...but is still 8.3lbs in the 16" SE variant..

If the weight loss is true..I may end up with one in 223 for just that reason..assuming I can find one on the secondary market..

The only thing I shoot without a suppressor anymore is my EDC, so I'd go with the RDB or Hellion.

After more looking I think the MDRX and the Hellion are the best looking bullpups for me.  The Hellion also seems to be less expensive than the AUG or the X95 as well.  But nothing out there in stock for sale in OD green except for the AUG.

GunZoneDeals has the black Tavor X95 for $1657 w/no sales tax. Currently ODG is OOS, but that's a good price if you'll settle for black or are willing to wait for ODG to be back in stock.
Or Tombstone Tactical has ODG in stock for $1681.
HTH...

If you are considering the MDRx, their price is cratering on the used Market due to the WLVRN.  You could probably find deals at $1500 or below.

The MDRx has a lifetime transferable warranty, so if you have any issues over its life they fix it for free, including shipping.

However for a 5.56 rifle an MDRx is heavy.

I'm eagerly awaiting the release and independent reviews on the Desert Tech Wolverine (WLVRN).  I've thought about buying the MDRX for a while, but the issues with accuracy (and to a lesser extent reliability) kept me on the fence.  But the WLVRN hopefully improves on these weaknesses.

I mean..if you shoot a 308 MDRx set up like the above Wlvrn..IT does great.

Tavor X95 SBR

The X95 SBR 22.8" OAL is shorter than a collapsed 10.3" MK18 CQBR (26.75").  It's over an inch shorter than a collapsed 7.5" AR Pistol (23.95").  And it's getting actually respectable 13" ballistics versus a 7.5"/10.3" barrel.  Heck, you could put a 5" YHM Turbo K on an X95 SBR and it would be the same length as the 16.5" X95 with A2 hider.

You're already paying $1700 and coping with a number of compromises to get that sweet sweet bullpup length... pay $200 more and deal with a bit of paperwork and you get to go EVEN shorter yet.

Tavor 7 is the only bull pup I have.  It is great.

Gotta go tried and true AUG for your first!

You sure about that? My 16.5" X95 w/A2 is 26.25" OAL w/the IDF buttplate.

i have a sbr ps90 and an odg 16" x95. i really want to sbr my tavor but cant find the sbr kit and have never seen one with the odg short hand guard. ive always wondered if its possible to have the factory 16" barrel cut and threaded

The RDB was my first. I got a good deal on a 20" RDB-C and bought it just to see if I would like bullpups or hate them.  I loved it and bought an RDB Survival. I loved that more. So now I have those, plus an X95, MDRX and an AUG.

I still love that RDB Survival the best though.  That said, the X95 is my go-to HD rifle.

The suggested MSRP puts that one out of range of what I am willing to spend on a range toy. $1500-$1700 is where I am at.  LOL, says the guy who dropped $3.5k on a blank only Thompson SMG.

I’d avoid being an early adopter on Desert Tech anything.  They’re interesting designs but I don’t have any confidence in their execution after watching the MDR debacle unfold all these years.  “This time will be different!”

Steyr AUG is the original classic with decades of service behind it.  They’re not great for suppressing and the regulator is an utter pain for normal humans to adjust.  The modularity of the rifle is unbeatable though, you can go from a 14” barrel up to a 24” HBAR in seconds.  Plenty of optic options for the A3/M1 receiver variant.

The IWI Tavor in all its versions is combat-tested and license-produced around the world.  The 5.56 flavors don’t suppress very well, the 7.62 has a really nice adjustable gas system.  They are rugged and tough guns, kinda like the AK of the bullpups.

The Hellion/VHS-2 is more the new kid on the block.  That said, it is the second iteration of the design, they are in service around the world, and they came in second to replace the FAMAS in French service behind HK.  (Which the way Euro politics go was the inevitable outcome in that trial.)  Springfield isn’t a newcomer on the market either so I think they’ll stand behind it pretty well.

The AR-like aftermarket definitely favors the Tavor for the most part, so if you want to accessorize those are probably the best bet.  Steyr is starting to catch up though the USA division of the company is always a bit of a step-child to Austria.  I think out of the box there isn’t much needing done to the VHS besides a muzzle device that works with your suppressor of choice.

Any of those three are a solid choice.  I don’t know that I could pick a favorite because I like them all for various and different reasons.  Starting over, I’d probably buy a VHS-2 first, then an AUG, then a Tavor 7.  (I’d really like to see the Tavor 7 design ported down to the smaller form factor as a Tavor 5.)

I put myself on the wait list for a 223 Wlvrn. I dont really trust many of the youtube reviewers so..
(I was also an early adopter of the Rdb17..Still my fav bullpup to shoot to date.)

I'll be the first one to point out any repeats of Dts history. Unlike the Mdr, this gun seem ready to be released...So fingers crossed that the Wvvrn is even bit the gun Dt promised us in 2014 on their way to being the best civy bullpup on the market.

Gosh, I trust YT'ers as much as I can throw them for the most part.  

I do seriously hope they've got it figured out this time! They've had some innovative designs which the industry needs but the execution over the lifetime of the MDR(X) family has left something to be desired.  The iterative improvements turning into paid upgrades for the earlier guns especially was customer-unfriendly.  Maybe with some of the simplified design aspects of the White Lavern they can focus more on QC and production than troubleshooting buggy features.

I do like the RDB, the downward ejection is pretty cool.  Relatively stable design that hasn't really changed outside of the Hunter, Survival, and Defender products that weren't really upgrades, just variations.  I will say the FAL-like adjustable gas is probably overkill though.  That's where I think the Tavor 7 does it right: Normal, Suppressed, Adverse, and Off.  Even then, you don't really hear many problems with the RDB in actual use, most just aesthetic complaints or distrust of the ejection that doesn't really pan out.

I didn't see it on the vote list but I would highly recommend you check out a Kel-Tec rdb.

Love my AUG and Tavor 7. If I could only have one it would be the AUG though.

RDBs are are light, affordable, and an easy intro to bullpups if you want to test the waters.
My next one will be a Defender.

Have Tavor x95.  Love it

I've owned a bunch of bullpups (some rare like the Bushmaster M17, FN FS2000, etc) and some not so rare like the AUG preban, AUG A3, AUG A3 M1, AUG STG77, Tavor SAR 16, Tavor SAR 18, X95, etc.

My favorite is the AUG A3 M1 with the Steyr OEM stock for waffle mags.  The lack of bolt-hold-open release on the NATO stock version is a no-go for me.

I'm leaning towards the NATO version only because I have a crap ton of P-Mags and have no desire to add yet another magazine to the mix.

That's why I bought my NATO version and I love it.  The lack of a bolt release is no big deal.

Wait- what?  

What would the point be of a NATO stock version except to take STANAG mags?  Pretty much the whole point of calling it a “NATO” stocked rifle correct?  Thought the differences were the mag, lack of bolt release on the NATO, and only 1 trigger bar on the NATO…

STANAG= AR15 pattern mag.


Just trying to figure out if I missed something, or if you got confused on mag types.  Because what you posted doesn’t make sense- why use a crummier NATO stock with Steyr mags?  



Anyhow- cannot go too far wrong with an AUG.

With the older AUG's, no. With the newer AUG's nitride bbl's & polymer problems, I'm not so sure.

Well let’s just say of the bullpup designs, it is still probably the leader due to more wide spread adoption and actual military use.

However I won’t be dumping my AR’s anytime soon.  The AUG is an addition to the fleet, not a replacement.  I trust them, just not quite as much as I really would like to though….   Some of the other designs, who knows?  Oddball models that you never see in person, or only a few are around, hard to tell if they have their own problems or not.  

Nitride barrels are OK, but I am not happy about that either- chrome is better.  Cracked stocks are more concerning and why I would not use one as my primary rifle if I was unable to resupply or get parts from Steyr.

Mis-reading on my part I guess.  I knew that the AUG took a mag that I did not have.  Just did not know the exact pattern and the interwebs was of no help.

This thread is of interest to me.

I've always leaned either X95 or Steyr Aug, but I have to say - the new 20" barreled version of the Hellion looks absolutely sick. The grenade launcher barrel rings also gives it that military touch that (IMO) makes it look 10x better than the 16" version.

I always wanted to like bullpups but would never keep one long enough to be comfortable with them, until recently. I’ve owned a Valmet m82, rdb, rfb, a couple MSAR Aug clones, and a couple Tavor SAR’s. Didn’t keep any of them, should’ve kept the Valmet

Then I needed a ps90 sbr just because, then the vhs came out and I needed one, always wanted an OD x95 sbr and found an x95 locally for cheap and bugged iwi USA for a short rail, chopped the barrel and had one, just picked up a 20” green Aug here in the EE and haven’t shot it yet.

The more I shoot the vhs and x95 sbr,  the more I love em, yes the hellion could use a trigger upgrade but it’s really not that bad

I can’t answer which one you’d like best, because I couldn’t say which one I’d keep if I had to get rid of some honestly.

Attached File

Is that an odg sbr kit on the x95? I've been trying to find one for a while. Any links?

The kits are pretty much unobtainable, so I got a short top rail from iwi USA, had JPGrips chop my barrel and bought the blk lbl sbr handguard

Here is my current "state of the bullpup".  This is the opinion of one outspoken jerk who think's he's so smart; but has sent more than a few rounds downrange - so take it for what you paid for it!

AUG - The classic.  It's also expensive, heavy, kind of jumpy, and apparently having some serious QC issues of late.  But it's THE iconic bullpup.  JMHO, but if go AUG, go AUG, and get the integrated glass option.  If you want to run a modernized glass option, get a modernized Bullpup - See RDB (yes, RDB).  Now's a good time, and an AUG is pretty much never a mistake.  Trigger sucks, but can be improved to actually pretty decent now.  I have an AUG.  I have 8000 rounds on my AUG.  I've broken parts on it - it's not nearly as indestructible as people say, but it is a solid gun that's still chugging along.   As to mags - don't handwring over that.  The Eastern European black ones are dirt cheap and kind of my favorite right now - buy those, good price, good mag.  The last time I shot it was a couple weeks ago, and that may well be the last time I shoot it for a while. See RDB below.

TAVOR and Hellion:  Lots of people love them.  I'm not that enamored with them, same weight and handling as the AUG, same price.  20 years of technology advancement for basically no improvement over AUG.  I have no interest in them personally, but if you like them - you're not a fool or anything.  Just don't do anything for me.  Again, I'll just say it one more time so nobody get's huffy - these are actually good guns that have proven to work well.  If you like them, they are a good choice.  I just don't.

Desert Tech: DT is the M1 Garand of the Bullpup world - where it's very interesting, hits hard, sometimes has good days, sometimes has bad days.  It's the gun with lots of personality.  Do you like an interesting girlfriend who's kind of a PITA and sometimes gives you good days and is good arm candy?  Who People Notice when she's on your arm.  But occasionally will go batshit crazy and throw all you dishes into the street and screw your best friend?  The MDR is for you!   The problem with the MDRx platform is it's a mid-sized round (.308) based gun, that they then make fit in small-frame rounds too.  Making it one seriously overweight bullpup for 5.56.  But if you go mid-sized, it's actually a sweetheart to shoot.  It's my favorite .308/6.5CM self-loader to shoot of ALL options, including non-bullpup, it's that sweet to shoot.  Reliability is FANTASTIC.   Accuracy...  well....

Mine flexes and throws rounds horizontal like a BITCH when running full sized loads.  It tightens up quite a lot if I download with a light bullet and run it at 6.5 Grendel level power... in 6.5 Creedmoor.  So that's... nice.   I still have it, as I do enjoy shooting it.   The new Wolvernine is supposed to be better.  So we'll see.  At present, if you want a 6.5mm diameter hole (which I do), then DT is the only game in town.  I haven't sold mine yet.  

Actually, I talk a lot of trash, but we'll see.  Mine's actually back at DT now to fix a non-critical part (my ejection chute flap spring broke, so they demanded I send THE ENTIRE GUN back to fix that pop-off part).; and their Customer Service is actually pretty good (they paid for the shipping).  Some people complain and have bad runs - donno; they've always taken good care of me.  If they torque down the whatever and readjust the this-thing and whatever, and the gun comes down to a reliable 1.5 MOA gun, I'll run that sucker like a scalded dog and smile the whole time doing it, because I really do much enjoy the MDRx - it's a very fun gun to shoot.  It's bad-ass running CQB with 6.5CM in a gun shorter than an M4 delivering 140 gr knockdown power out of a 20" barrel _ i'll admit.  I've run 1500 rounds of 6.5CM on mine.  I've broken parts on it.  I break parts on every gun I own.  They all break.  I would rank the MDRx reliability as Exceptional.  Yea, you read that right, mine is that good.  Other people's... meh - what can I say?

PS90:  The P90 is one of the coolest concept guns ever, and after Stargate binge watching I very much want one.  But weird round, crappy trigger, stupid 16" BBL configuration, and semi-auto only of the .22Magnum(+)... For FN price structure of a blow-back gun.   Um... no.   Buuuuttttt

90/22:  This is The One.  SBR one of these and throw a binary in there, and tadaa, you have basically what the P90 is supposed to be, in civilian hands; and at 5 cents a shot.  The FUNNEST gun I've ever owned.  A friend was so impressed, he went out and dropped $1k to buy all the parts to do it from scratch.  On his first outing he went through 800 rounds.   Yea - do this.  Mine's at the shop now getting one barrel adjusted to have an FN P90 break installed, and another barrel getting threaded for a suppressor.  13" 22LR ballistics are the exact same as 18" BBL ballistics, and about half what the original P90 ballistics are, which are about half what a 5.56 ballistics are.
Internets photo

I have at least 3000 rounds through mine by now, and just built it.


RDB:  And here we are.  The only designer to actually realize that most bullpups are WAY too heavy for their size, and have terrible triggers, and sucks to switch shoulders and fire off-hand; was - of all people - KelTec.  And they actually did a pretty fantastic job.  I picked one up this year for CHEAP.  Then put a 2.5X fixed power scope on it, a cool handguard, a better muzzle break, and tadaa!  The RDB.  This is the gun I'm storage retiring my AUG for, because I like this gun better than my AUG.  By... a lot.  I mean, we'll see because ... KelTec.  As typical, they sort of bang out the barrels in their steamworx shop and screw together the units with enough screws to affect screw-commodity futures prices (I mean seriously - holy shit that's a lot of screws).  But I will say, it's kind of better at every category in almost every way for ME, this particular user.  Accuracy is only decent; but then, my own AUG's accuracy sucks.  Occasionally someone will come post a stellar AUG group.  That's cool; they got a better AUG than I did.  Or my friend did.  Or my other friend did.  So... yea.  And today, with Steyr USA stellar QC posts?  yea, good luck with that.  
here's a 17" BBL RDB next to a 10.5" CQB MK18 (ish)

I've got 1000 rounds on mine.  This gun needs a break in; ESPECIALLY the barrel.  Accuracy went from kind of sucks.  To Kind of decent.  I had to fix a couple things (my bolt-lock would bind) - but as soon as I figured out why, a drop of JB weld to adjust a contact point, and tadaa - fixed.  The Nice thing about KelTec, is a "a drop of JB Weld", isn't that big of a deal.  Whereas do that with an AUG, and people will die if they read that..     As to actual reliabiltiy, My AUG breaks and jams.  My AUG dustcover gets eaten and locks up the gun.  Other people have AUG dust covers fall off too; it's not just me.  Now that I've gotten familiar with the RDB and its gas system, I trust it as much as I trust my AUG.  Actually, a bit more TBH (subject to future updates! ).  And almost as much as I trust my MDR.

hightower highpoint PCC bullpup ZOMG one of the COOLEST looking PCC bullpup's evah!  And their paired that with the total POS HiPoints; that recoil like a dragon and run low-capacity single stack magazines.  Dude, make that around a roller delayed Stribog A3, and it'll be SHutUpAndTakeMyMoney!   HiPoint??

PSA Bullpup?
I'm excited to see PSA is looking to enter the bullpup market.   It's going to be their JAKL upper on a bullpup lower frame.  Which is a start.   If they make it in 6.5 Grendel I'll buy it tomorrow.  In 5.56...   See above comments on Tavor/Hellion I guess.

I think that's most of them?

So what bullpup should you get?  

Honestly, if you want a rifle, get the KelTec RDB.  yes... seriously, get the RDB.   I deep cleaned and stored my AUG last week, I'm done with it for a while, and will be running the RDB as my primary.   Well, until it breaks or pisses me off.     If you want a fun Stargate toy, you HAVE TO GET THE 90/22!  OMG that thing is a BLAST!  even in factory configuration with the factory trigger, it's totally a blast.

AUG is pretty iconic, lightweight and stock mags were the first plastic mage to really handle abuse and show rounds left.
Tavor is made by people that know about dusty/sandy environments.
I like my SAR mag release, with a little practice you just shift your thumb and hand backwards and the mag drops free while your off hand is going for the fresh one.
It takes a conscious effort and not likely something you will do by accident.

Not really that light weight anymore.  It grew to 7.8 pounds for the latest version.

RDB is under 7 pounds.  X95 is 8, SAR 7.9,  the new WLVRN is supposed to be 7.4.

Thank you to everyone who posted.  There is a lot of food for thought here and some great information.

However, I have decided to go a different route.  Going to get a TG36C.  Another iconic firearm that I have wanted for ages.  I figure the TG36 will be much harder to get as time goes by while the bullpups discussed here will be much easier to find in the near future.

I think i can speak for all of us in the bullpup forum when I say




< j k '> enjoy it!

LOL

While I’m a fan of bullpups in general, and DT’s bolt bullpups, I would wait at least a couple years AFTER any of their new semi autos start showing up in the wild.

The whole debacle with the delays, and owners being beta testers with the MDR should be required research for anyone considering any DT semi auto releases.


*** lol, beat.

Keltec RDB is $750 at PSA right now.  I picked mine up 4 years ago for $600 and am extremely thrill with it for the money.  Its light, has a decent trigger and is a bottom ejecting.  With a PSA 3x micro prism, it is a excellent little carbine.  

But, I keep waiting for S&W or Ruger to do a copy of it like they did with other Keltec products.  My RDB will keep me company until that happens.  Keltec designs very interesting platforms, but always leave something to be desired in execution.  I have a P3AT, KS-7 and RDB.  They are all excellent, but always leaving you wondering when it will break.  For home defense and range use, where it mostly sits or is in a soft case, I think they are great.  They would be absolutely trashed in actual duty use.  I've had screws fall out and don't run them hard.

Keltec needs to wake up and smell the coffee.  I realize that the owner of Keltec is probably a multimillionaire and I'm not.  They also seem to sell out of all their new offerings for years.  But if they would up the quality of the products, they would be a serious gun manufacturer.  Their P3AT was the go to micro .380 for awhile and many people carried them.  Imagine if it started with the quality of the Ruger version from the start.

LOLOLOL..that expresses EXACTLY what I was thinking!!!  LOLOLOLOL!!!

Here's a band aid for us: