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Posted: 9/18/2026 6:04:52 PM EDT
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Toying with the idea of a 7" barrel AR PDW. PDW stock, 7" barrel upper. 10" MLok handguard to "bury" a suppressor. Suppressor like a Griffin Recce (no barrel length restriction). FRT. Red dot sight. Light. Thoughts? |
Et quant au repos ? Le Caliphate doit être essuyé de la terre.
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First decide on a cartridge. IF youre fixated on a AR based gun, Id go with 300 Blackout BUT you should consider other platforms, especially if you want a real PDW. Then decide what you think a PDW is and how it will fit your needs. Suppressors are cool but they dont fit my idea of a PDW. I want a PDW to be small enough to conceal and a suppressor complicates that. Also once the gun is in action, quite is the last thing Im concerned about. The HK MP5PDW (MP5K based) is a great PDW, especially with the newer B&T stock. The US just adopted the B&T APC9 SMG for executive protection teams because it could be concealed until necessary. Im a fan of the P90 (PS90 SBR). Its a great PDW and 50 round mags are a huge plus once its time to go LOUD. Id look seriously at the FLUX and other chassis systems (Strike Industries, Recover 2020). All those are better suggestions for a PDW than an AR based gun. Build what you want but calling a AR a PDW is like calling an apple cart a good option for a spare car |
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Originally Posted By PieterCoetzee: First decide on a cartridge. IF youre fixated on a AR based gun, Id go with 300 Blackout BUT you should consider other platforms, especially if you want a real PDW. Then decide what you think a PDW is and how it will fit your needs. Suppressors are cool but they dont fit my idea of a PDW. I want a PDW to be small enough to conceal and a suppressor complicates that. Also once the gun is in action, quite is the last thing Im concerned about. The HK MP5PDW (MP5K based) is a great PDW, especially with the newer B&T stock. The US just adopted the B&T APC9 SMG for executive protection teams because it could be concealed until necessary. Im a fan of the P90 (PS90 SBR). Its a great PDW and 50 round mags are a huge plus once its time to go LOUD. Id look seriously at the FLUX and other chassis systems (Strike Industries, Recover 2020). All those are better suggestions for a PDW than an AR based gun. Build what you want but calling a AR a PDW is like calling an apple cart a good option for a spare car Personally not a fan of the flux-style setups over an mp5k or SBR AR but lots of people do like them I’ll link the big pdw thread, lots of discussion on the topic and inspiration builds https://ar15.com/forums/general/A-mostly-peaceful-election-year-Let-s-talk-PDWs-v2-0/5-2730988/ |
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Originally Posted By stiglitz_actual: Personally not a fan of the flux-style setups over an mp5k or SBR AR but lots of people do like them I’ll link the big pdw thread, lots of discussion on the topic and inspiration builds https://ar15.com/forums/general/A-mostly-peaceful-election-year-Let-s-talk-PDWs-v2-0/5-2730988/ Brother you should go whatever route you want but Id suggest that a AR doesnt come close to a PDW. I say that because of the size. Making it in 556 or 300BO only futher confounds the problem. IF you opt for a AR in 9mm you can reduce the size somewhat but it still wont be small enough to conceal without a bag or some such. Dont get me wrong I like ARs and AR SMGs; but I wouldnt call them a PDW If we go back to the original PDW concept from the late 1980s, concealment wasnt an issue BUT a small size that would be carried rather than leaning on something when the primary duties of non combat soldiers were being done. Something with more power and with a greater range than a handgun. Today I would suggest the greater power is of lesser importance, now being replaced by the ability to be carried out of view being primary. Considering that a SMG (semi) with a stock or brace should be capable of engaging 100m threats that seems like a good window for a civilian PDW/ If you feel the need for more power/range, then I might lean toward something in 10mm. For that the Kriss Vector comes to mind. Its small "snag free" with the 15 round magazine and can of course use larger mags. It blocky shape makes it easier to "hide" in a Laptop bag. No AR can be that small Using the Honey Badger as a concept model, its still 20(+) inches long collapsed. Thats pretty hard to hide under a jacket and even too large to fit assembled in a typical backpack. The P90 is 20 inches but ready to fire and with a 50 round mag. Im not holding my breath for availability but the MP7 (SP7) is only 16" collapsed and able to be fired in the mode. Again decide what you want a PDW to do for you; but you might even consider the VZ61 (original) Skorpion is micro small at 10" and very easy to carry in the kydex holster from Code 4 Defense. The 32acp cartridge is enhanced with the TUI (Tumble Upon Impact) ammo. The stock does take some getting used to; but it is useable. Im saying all this because PDW has become a flexible term; but there are limits and calling an AR a PDW seems a real stretch |
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I would say it comes down to how much money you have to throw at it and parts support you have access to. After that, get what you want. I have all the parts to turn an AR into a 9mm shooter. It is fun but I am looking to get a dedicated lower for the 9mm setup. But man I wish I had the $3K + + to get some version of an MP5 with all the parts to have fun with that. |
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Originally Posted By stiglitz_actual: https://media1.giphy.com/media/wi8Ez1mwRcKGI/200.webp?cid=8dc8958cqf4t5j1tlma6wy0zppxx8ropbb7jmm6fkynvee0z&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.webp&ct=g But in 300blk  https://distortion.io/i/IMG_2151.jpg Imagine that in .308! 
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Religion is a handy device for keeping the philosophically deficient in line.
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Originally Posted By JellyBelly: Imagine that in .308! I have a G3K clone and a AR10 based 12" version they are cool guns but not something Id call a PDW I think the real question at this point is What is a PDW? I suppose it could have different meanings to different folks but the farther we drift from the original meaning the less the term means anything |
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Originally Posted By ODA_564: Toying with the idea of a 7" barrel AR PDW. PDW stock, 7" barrel upper. 10" MLok handguard to "bury" a suppressor. Suppressor like a Griffin Recce (no barrel length restriction). FRT. Red dot sight. Light. Thoughts? Bought a Geissele Gfw upper on here. 7” handguard with an 8” barrel 556. Not a great pic but the lower has an a5 tube. Have another lower with a KAK mini buffer tube and it is tiny with it. It’s comically small. I love it. Attached File |
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7.0" 300blk with a sico omega 9k under a 8.5" URX4 handguard and a LWRC UCIW stock Attached File 8.5" 556 with a 8" URX 3.1 handguard and a LAW folder. I've since changed out the stock to a shorter buffer tube with a little magpul stock on it but don't have pics. Attached File 7.5" 300blk I originally was going to use a stock/brace like this but realized that the LWRC UCIW stock is just as short collapsed and much more comfortable extended. Attached File |
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Since the definition of a PDW came up and may have diluted this thread, I started a new discussion here https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/What-is-a-PDW-Lets-discuss/5-2859160/ |
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Originally Posted By PieterCoetzee: First decide on a cartridge. IF youre fixated on a AR based gun, Id go with 300 Blackout BUT you should consider other platforms, especially if you want a real PDW. Then decide what you think a PDW is and how it will fit your needs. Suppressors are cool but they dont fit my idea of a PDW. I want a PDW to be small enough to conceal and a suppressor complicates that. Also once the gun is in action, quite is the last thing Im concerned about. The HK MP5PDW (MP5K based) is a great PDW, especially with the newer B&T stock. The US just adopted the B&T APC9 SMG for executive protection teams because it could be concealed until necessary. Im a fan of the P90 (PS90 SBR). Its a great PDW and 50 round mags are a huge plus once its time to go LOUD. Id look seriously at the FLUX and other chassis systems (Strike Industries, Recover 2020). All those are better suggestions for a PDW than an AR based gun. Build what you want but calling a AR a PDW is like calling an apple cart a good option for a spare car |
Et quant au repos ? Le Caliphate doit être essuyé de la terre.
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Originally Posted By stiglitz_actual: https://media1.giphy.com/media/wi8Ez1mwRcKGI/200.webp?cid=8dc8958cqf4t5j1tlma6wy0zppxx8ropbb7jmm6fkynvee0z&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.webp&ct=g But in 300blk https://distortion.io/i/IMG_2151.jpg |
Et quant au repos ? Le Caliphate doit être essuyé de la terre.
| I’m not impressed with tucked suppressors either. Restrictions on suppressor diameter, the handguard gets hot, and the front M-Lok slots are usually unusable because there’s no clearance for the nuts between the can and inside of the handguard. I have a 8.5” Maxim Defense upper with their 9.5” handguard, and I can’t use some of my suppressors with it because of clearance issues. |
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Originally Posted By Deny_Everything: I've got one with a LAW folder. It's neat. I ended up removing all of my LAW folders. They added a bunch of weight and failure points without providing any real benefit for me. LWRC UCIW stock or SB HBPDW brace is the way to go IMO. |
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Originally Posted By PieterCoetzee: First decide on a cartridge. IF youre fixated on a AR based gun, Id go with 300 Blackout BUT you should consider other platforms, especially if you want a real PDW. Then decide what you think a PDW is and how it will fit your needs. Suppressors are cool but they dont fit my idea of a PDW. I want a PDW to be small enough to conceal and a suppressor complicates that. Also once the gun is in action, quite is the last thing Im concerned about. The HK MP5PDW (MP5K based) is a great PDW, especially with the newer B&T stock. The US just adopted the B&T APC9 SMG for executive protection teams because it could be concealed until necessary. Im a fan of the P90 (PS90 SBR). Its a great PDW and 50 round mags are a huge plus once its time to go LOUD. Id look seriously at the FLUX and other chassis systems (Strike Industries, Recover 2020). All those are better suggestions for a PDW than an AR based gun. Build what you want but calling a AR a PDW is like calling an apple cart a good option for a spare car |
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Originally Posted By jhereg: Easy enough to build a 5.7 AR and a small suppressor will do a lot to take the edge off there. There's the CMMG stuff and the AR57 stuff that takes PS90 mags. Just adding to the context of the PDW as orignally defined by NATO (not necessarily by name) in the 1980's. Flux Defense has a good piece on this topic: FLUX Defense - What is a PDW Excerp (Ironically NATO never publically used the official term of PDW, but manufactures did based on discussions in the 1980's). In the late 1980s, NATO saw a potential issue on the horizon with the standard secondary weapon for support vehicle crews: the 9mm submachine gun. Advancements in body armor had reached a point where they could more or less defeat a 9mm round. To counter this, NATO published Document D/296 in 1989. This doc requested a replacement for the standard 9×19mm Parabellum round and two new weapons in the replacement caliber; one shoulder-fired and one hand-held. The new caliber and weapons systems were intended to be “personal protection in last-resort situations when the user is directly endangered by the enemy.” The first “by name” personal defense weapons. D/296 laid out specific requirements for new round and weapons. Compact, with an overall length no greater than an average soldier’s should width (approximately 50cm/20in) Capable of defeating CRISAT-standard soft body armor at 200 meters Better range and accuracy than the 9mm round The shoulder-fired PDW had to weigh less than 3kg/6.6lbs with a magazine capacity of at least 20 rounds The handheld PDW had to weigh less than 1kg/2.2lbs with a magazine capacity of at least 20 rounds Both PDWs had to be compact enough to be carried “hands-free” by a soldier at all times, whether in a vehicle, aircraft cockpit, or when doing their normal job What Makes a PDW a PDW Strip away the brand names and the history, and the PDW reduces to five functional traits: Compact Form Shorter overall length than a standard carbine. Operable in confined spaces like vehicle interiors, stairwells, doorways. Transportable in a bag, case, or on the body without significantly impeding other work. Greater Capability Than a Handgun Longer effective range, improved accuracy through additional contact points, longer sight radius, and higher magazine capacity. Defensive Orientation PDWs are built for reactive engagements. The user’s primary mission is something other than combat and their defensive tool needs to be ready when required without impeding how they move, work, or carry. Rapid Deployment The weapon needs to go from carried to ready faster than a slung carbine allows, and in more situations than a holstered pistol permits Portability and Concealment as Priorities Portability and concealment are intentional design aspects of PDWs, not afterthoughts. A weapons platform that meets the first four criteria but requires a dedicated rifle case is not a PDW. What a PDW is Not A PDW is not a primary combat weapon. It’s not intended to be a standard-issue infantry rifle. Compared to a standard service rifle, a PDW lacks range and terminal performance, but that’s an intentional tradeoff for all the traits listed above. Understanding those trade-offs is much more useful than pretending they don’t exist. ... ROCK6 |
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" - Thomas Jefferson
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