Feel like I've been janked around by them since the 1st part of October on a Form 1 submission.

First thing they did was hold my submission for a number of weeks (without offering me a choice in the matter or even having the courtesy of letting me know that was what they were doing). Stated reason being they knew E file was coming back up so 'they were doing me & everyone else in the same boat a solid by sitting on our paperwork". Then after I found out this was going on & E file had been back up I inquired about my Form 1 again & was told "oh yeah, it's in the queue & we'll be getting to it in a week or so".  More waiting I had to find out about myself (no calls or emails from them) but form finally showed it had been submitted (weeks after Efile went back online).

Now I'm being told that my Form 1 is on hold at the ATF b/c they (the ATF) doesn't like the way Silencershop is doing something & that Silencershop is hoping that the system will be workable & approved by some ATF committee by the end of next week.... & here's another BOHICA/fuck you....  but when it does come up everything will have to be resubmitted by them all over i.e. your shit will be starting all over in the ATF queue.  

For my never ending trouble I'm going to get a hat to wear so I can give them free advertisement.  Meanwhile no joy in the firearm I've been wanting to have/use from months ago & am currently in no queue in with the ATF.

No matter what I'm not happy about the lack of communication & quite frankly at this point, smell a rat.  If I had to do it all over again I'd submit everything myself the old fashioned way.  It's 1 thing to wait on Mr ATF & his bureaucracy,  but it's another to pay a company to process your shit & they end up causing you more uncertainty / ass pain then if you had just did it yourself.

Rant over.

My last can bought though them took over a year.

I don't remember the exact dates now, but I remember calling the atf well into my wait.  They told me the date they received it and put my check in and it was several months after I had did everything on my end.

I prefer just having my LGS get it (if they don't already stock it) and them doing everything.  It just seems to go quicker and smoother.

Not cool.

They should have a drop down box so the consumer can select if they want to e file or file a paper form instead of silencershop choosing one way or the other.

I can't imagine the frustration on silencershop's end trying to work with the government and their broken electronic system...better them than me.

I’ve used SS F1 to do a few sbr’s with no issue in the past.

I was going to sbr a lower I have, then I read a bit about this hot mess and decided to wait until it settles.

At a personal level I have never understood the fascination of Silencer Shop in its current business model and/or all of their legal & paperwork "services" that are supposed to be a benefit.

Was Silencer Shop great when it was HCC3 and/or for the first couple of years with their SS retail storefront when they had awesome deals, great promotions,  and good CS.....yes.   Have they slowly turned into a large lumbering mess...in my opinion, unfortunately so.

I am local to SS and have driven by their storefront on 183 back and forth to work hundreds of times and I don't bother to ever stop in anymore.   I stopped using them for NFA transfers, stopped doing regular 4473 transfers, and have bought exactly one suppressor from them since they moved to the distributor model a couple years back (which was difficult and added complexity for no good reason).

Going into the store and having to listen to them hard sell prospective customers on their  "services", provide questionable legal advice,  or push suppressors of known dubious quality was all a bit unpleasant to listen to.  The number of cans and equipment they have on display also seems to have dwindled over the years as I presume less and less local folks bother to stop in.

My take is that now-a-days Silencer Shop  primarily caters to the new entrant to the NFA market who doesn't know any better.

From where I sit, they don't ever seem competitive price-wise* anymore and all their efforts (Kiosks, electronic PDFs back and forth, emails, etc.) just add time and complexity to the transfer process.   I buy cans from whatever dealer has the item for the lowest price, Form 3 it to my local dealer which takes a week or so,  swing by his shop 5 minutes from work and pick up my forms, add some print cards and pics and drop it all in the mail.

*Yes I know the Powered by Dealers technically set their pricing but ultimately SS has significant control what dealers will charge by how much they charge the dealers at the distributor level and/or control on MAP.  Ultimately between what they charge the Powered-By dealers and/or any MAP terms they have a significant impact  on how their dealer network sets pricing on the website......and it shows.   I don't bother to browse their website anymore because the pricing I have seen when I do is meh at best and the rest of their purchase process isn't appealing either.

That is because it is set up for moron NFA buyers.

It was kind of a pain in the dick to get my already established and used Trust into their kiosk system. The Form 1 shit just pisses me off further

Yep, submitted a form 1 on 11/27 been sitting at signatures complete since then.

i submitted a form 4 through them a little before that and that one seems to be making progress tax stamp check cashed is the status on that one, hopefully thats accurate and they didnt screw up the fingerprints there.

i wont be using them again they dont seem to concerned about letting anyone know whats going on, or what the plan is to resolve the situation.

I purchased a suppressor many months before the 41F fiasco. I didn't hear any word from them until I reached out and coincidentally that was the day my paperwork was marked processed.  They sat on it until just before the deadline extending my wait by probably 6 months, based on when others submissions were being approved. Never again.

I would probably have gone with "new", "uninformed", or maybe even "immutable" (for long term customers who stick with them)  ....  but then again I struggle to come up with a significant counterpoint to your thesis above.

Can you give some price examples from other places? I would like to compare what you can get silencer X for somewhere else, vs what I can sell it for under SS. This will determine if the issue is the PbyD, or SS.

.

Silencerco Saker 556:

SS Price is $689 cheapest in Texas and which is what like 90% of the dealers have listed as their price.  It jumps from there up to $854.00

https://www.silencershop.com/silencers/5-56mm-rifle/silencerco-saker-5-56-with-mount.html

A quick search on GB finds the same can for $548.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/791344092

This is $148 difference and after I pay my SOT $50 for the transfer I am still roughly $100 ahead.

This is the last can I bought from SS was a Bowers Vers 9S

Bowers Vers 9S

Cheaperst SS TX price is $635. (Edited now the price seems to have dropped to $612 when I go back and refresh the page)

https://www.silencershop.com/silencers/bowers-vers-9s.html

or I can buy direct from Bowers via gunbroker for $535.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/790081338

Given I pay no sales tax to Bowers its a $150 $125 price disparity.  After my local SOT transfer fee its $75 savings.

I paid more when I bought my Vers9s  from SS because only I wanted to check out the can in person in comparison to other subgun cans.  If I use your shop to compare products in person I buy from you even if it costs me more.

Gemtech Mist is the same deal $569 at SS and $415 on GB.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/792038805

SS used to crush everyone on price and now it seems best case they are maybe on price parity with other dealers.

OK so MAP on the Saker is $689, $519 on the VERS 9S and $569 on the Mist.

So on 2 of the 3, SS dealers are at MAP, and one is a little high. I have all my prices at MAP.

Since dealers can get it for less than MAP, some dealers are going to GB to sell the same can cheaper since they can avoid MAP. Not much SS can do about that. Just shows how fucking retarded the whole MAP thing is.

You do realize that Silencer Shop does not set the price right? It's actually your LGS where you pick up your can that sets the price.

FYI, SS posted this response in their industry forum the other day...

I apologize to everyone for the delay. I have been on vacation since last week.

We developed this whole process in lock step with the ATF, but they changed their requirements with regards to the "I authorize" checkbox on the eForm, after we started submitting them. They have put all of our eForm Form 1's on hold and we have to change our software and process to account for the new process. The only difference is you have to click on the checkbox and sign your name, instead of just the latter. Everyone who has submitted will have to resign the documents and click the checkbox.

We have already updated our software, but we are waiting on written approval from the ATF about the new process. We do not know how long this will take, could be 1-2 weeks.

In the interim, everyone who has submitted an electronic Form 1 in the last few weeks is being contacted by our sales and compliance teams. This is taking a while, since there are a couple thousand customers in the pool.

If you should choose to wait it out and let us submit the correction, we are compensating you with a $75 gift card. If not, we will of course refund the Form 1 fee and we will also refund your tax stamp up front (e.g. you do not have to wait for months for the ATF to send us a refund check for your submission).

I assume that SS does not allow PbyDs set their advertised prices below MAP (or at least has some pricing floor) for the vast majority of their products they "distribute".  This would explain why a significant portion of the PbyD pricing on most products seems to hit a pricing floor and never go lower.

If it was true that SS let PbyDs set the pricing "however they like" than why doesnt at least one dealer drop the MIST price from $569 to  $550 or $525 to drive more sales volume to themselves.  There appear to be plenty of profit still at $550 given Gunbroker has no shortage of four hundred dollar range MISTs and those dealer are also paying Gunbroker 3ish percent.

As a personal case in point, I  bought two MISTs from SS prior to the change to the distributo/PbyD model, one of which was from the very first batch released when the MIST was in really high demand being new and the second one during the 41P/F panic when all suppressors were flying off the shelves.

Both of the MISTs bought from SS prior to the PbyD change were less than $500 and I am sure they were still making money back then.   Yet somehow today a Mist from their cheapest PbyD in Texas today is $569 which is Gemtechs MAP and roughly $90 more than I bought the same cans from them previously.

The MIST example above illustrates my "non-competitive pricing" point.   If I was in the market for a 3rd Mist...why  would I go to SS and pay ~$90 more than I did 3 to 4 years ago and/or $150 more vs. what I could buy one off GB today....and....deal with their cumbersome and time delayed transfer process.    I could buy a MIST off GB, F3 it to my dealer,  and have the F4 in the mail probably before SS actually submitted the Form 4 and pay significantly less in the process.

SS used to almost exclusively have the best pricing across the board and there was almost no reason to look elsewhere.   Today, there are dealers offering specials or just reduced pricetag products on GB that SS and their PbyD network don't seem able to touch.

Trust me I wish that wasnt the case.  I used to go after their silencer deals  like a fat kid after cake, now a days I just don't see the value proposition anymore.

Correct, you cannot list it less than MAP, hence why nobody drops the price. So instead you just list it on Gunbroker below MAP. Hence why I said the whole MAP system is fucking retarded.

Thanks for the confirmation.

What I don't get is how/why did SS sell me two MISTs (and a bunch of other suppressors) below MAP a couple years ago, but now all their PbyDs are effectively hamstrung by it.  Maybe "distributors" are more legally bound to enforce MAP vs. individual dealers?

With SS enforcement of a MAP pricing floor on their PbyDs and all of the other problems I wonder if they will follow the same trajectory as Major Malfunction.   Is Bryon even still around at this point?

This would probably be a more accurate description.

Not sure if this is the case for yours, but when I bought my MIST's, they were part of the custom run Lipsey's did and were not subject to MAP, as Gemtech had not made them a general product yet. Folks were then surprised by the popularity, and it became a Gemtech product.

MMM is gone. He opened a new place - This is the last I heard. Next time I am up I will stop by.

http://www.kten.com/story/32691163/new-gun-shop-opening-in-downtown-denison

Seems this has moved into silencer pricing talk.  Like to see it get back to the original topic, i.e. the SS efile F1 debacle.

I posted a few days back in another thread that ATF frequently moves the goalpost in regards to business processes.
When I first became a Powered By Dealer, ATF had absolutely no problem with me authorizing Silencer Shop to submit Form 4's on my behalf. For several years this was the standard procedure.

This past summer, ATF changed their mind. No new law was passed, no new regulation was adopted.....just a whimsical "uh, no" from ATF. Now SS will send me the Form 4 for my DocuSign.

The current Form 1 debacle is IMHO entirely ATF fault based on their previous history of fucking up a pretty simple process.

Yea, well...

Silencer Shop isn't doing anyone a favor by not communicating what's going on. I got a call from them at 3:00 yesterday (pacific time) that went to voice mail. After I listened to the message I called right back. "Sorry, Silencer Shop closes at 5:00pm sharp" (central time)

We all know that NFA items are a waiting game. The time isn't the issue, the lack of information is. I believe wishy washy is the technical term for it. They have been over promising and under delivering through this whole process*

Had they posted even some minimal info about what is happening I think a lot of us would be much more forgiving. We could all commiserate about the usual ATF-up and move toward a resolution together. In stead we get reports, second hand, from everyone that has contacted them and then come here to tell us what their version of the issue is. Silencer Shop could of at least posted something in the industry section to allay concerns. If internet rumors are to be believed I'm getting a SS cap, T-shirt and $75 store credit for all this. I'll believe it when I see it (stickers might make all this worth it, please let it be stickers /sarcasm)

I've worked retail in the outdoor industry and understand this common thread: Just because someone is good at using a product doesn't mean that they will understand how to sell that product and provide customer service for it. Despite a fairly polished website SS is rather amateurish in the CS department. Lots of big ideas and talk but when it came to getting this job done they have been an empty suit. We should be paying them BECAUSE they have it figured out, not TO figure it out. I can figure shit out on my own, and next time I will

*On a side note: I'm annoyed that I had to pay for the kiosk service on top of the form 1 service. I asked here if that would be the case and got no response. I asked the store with the kiosk if they would charge before going in and they said they wouldn't. After paying for the form 1 I went in to the store and they charged me, basically doubling the form 1 fee. I came back here to report what happened and SS was Johnny on the spot to explain that dealers can charge a fee. It's not so much about the money, just lay it all out so people know what they are getting into. Any other way is deceptive

Meh. I got hit with this too. But way I see it is even if it takes a few weeks for them to sort out the efiling with the ATF, the paper form 1's just a couple months ago were running 6 months. Silencer Shop is offering a $75 credit for the hassle which is, imho, more than adequate for an extra couple weeks of wait.

NFA isn't for the impatient.

Also don't think Silencer Shop is for "moron" NFA buyers. I've got 3 going through them and a dozen or so through other methods. SS isn't perfect, but what it is, is convenient. There's something nice about being able to find the can you want on the website, pop it in your cart, hit buy, and wait for the stamp. Even the first time with the fingerprints and the passport photo took like 15 minutes tops, and now I don't have to even deal with that for awhile. Literally hit checkout and wait. That's pretty convenient. Love SS or hate them, their kiosks and work with the ATF are drastically helping the NFA process as a whole, especially for people just getting into the game.

Me too and I agree. I did the kiosk thing and now I can literally buy as many as I want without doing a damn thing besides add shit to my cart, click buy and a few days later DocuSign my signature. It just doesn't get any easier than that. Also, when you add in fees here and there, you're not saving a substantial amount of money (if any) over SilencerShop. For example, the Dead Air Sandman-S is $829 on SS. That's it, no tax, shipping, credit card fees, etc. The cheapest you can find that can on Gunbroker is $699 plus 3% for CC and $25 shipping. Then it's a $50 transfer fee at my FFL. So we're at $796.74 at my FFL. That's ~$33. Wow, much savings. If I want to use my SS info and have them do the transfer, my FFL can charge as much as $40 for the "use of the kiosk" even though I'm not really using the kiosk since SS has all my information. There goes all my savings. Besides, I'll wait out this whole Form 1 fiasco and take that $75 off a Sandman-S.

In Michigan all the dealers around me are silencer shop only or they want $200 transfer fee.  I haven’t done anything since the rule changes even though I would like a few things.  No one in my trust wants to submit prints and photos

Yeah, well...…….read their post in the Industry Forum. It explains what they are doing and what happened.

So when they call you...… you still complain about them not communicating?

Well...…...they did.

It's not exactly a secret and has been discussed often on AR15 that using a kiosk to scan your prints is free if that's the dealer you chose to receive your silencer. Kiosks aren't free. You're mad because the store YOU chose charges a kiosk fee....that isn't the fault of SS.

Heck, Silencer Shops website even says "...you should keep in mind that some dealers might charge a minimal fee if you’re using the kiosk at their location for a transfer to another dealer..."

Nothing prevents you from ordering your own FBI fingerprint cards and mailing them to Silencer Shop.

Bingo.

For a fact I was at  best *clearing throat* 'mislead' over a period of weeks about the status of my purchase. That's not cool.  And them posting whatever they did in some industry forum doesn't cut the mustard.  They owed each customer at least an email detailing what was going on & what our options were. That did not happen. We eventually (key word) got phone calls & in my case the person that I ended up talking to didn't say anything about having an option to do anything other than wait it out.

Still waiting for my phone call.....

To be honest, I don’t know why they simply don’t post what they posted in the industry forum right on their web page for all to see.  Not everyone is on arf.com, and not everyone goes to all of the forums.

I don't think that's really a fair statement.   The NFA process is very unforgiving and a lot of people can't afford to have stuff rejected at $200 a pop when it can take several months to get a refund for the stamp payment.

Silencershop is trying, and has put a lot of cans in people's hands.

@boltcatch

I'm pretty sure statements like that are mostly made out of jealousy.

In other news, I wish I had filed a form 1 through SS just for the free gift card

It’s an ignorant statement.

I use SS for the simple convenience. I don’t have time to drive around the state to dealers to save $50, if that were even possible here.

I use SS because they made the 41f crap as easy as possible for my trust.

I click buy, and pick up my can when it approved.

I’ve filled out multiple F1’s and efiles.

Using SS’s F1 process is faster and easier for submission. Again time/money.

Not every transaction has been great, but nothing in life is. Sometimes shit goes sideways.

Saying SS is for Morons is well....

If you can't afford $200, then how can you afford the gun itself or the ammo to use it?

How did people figure this out before E forms existed?

Hell I can easily spend 200 on the ammunition  per range visit.

If 200 is a hard swing for you then you should most likely not spend it on NFA items at this time.

Now with that said I use SS for a bunch of my forms because I have so little time to mess with paperwork.  I don’t mind kicking them 35 or 40 extra bucks most of the time to do the work for me.  It’s the same reason I have an assistant.  I would rather pay them to deal with the small stuff.

Can you guys send me some seeds from your $200 bill tree? That would be great

Yes I can .  It’s called hard work.  Do it and you too will grow 200

So far no issues for this "moron NFA user"...

Form 1 individual submitted via SS 9-5-18 approved 12-4-18.

Was easy and quite convenient.

Recently did two E-File Form 1's as individual and they came back in two weeks.