User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/14/2018 7:21:34 AM EDT
[#1]
Nobody has done it?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2018 8:50:34 AM EDT
[#2]
Two per packet figure less likely that I don't get an error email that way. But I will be interested to hear if others have had success.
eta: for clarity 2 fp cards for each F4 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2018 11:52:34 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Two per packet figure less likely that I don't get an error email that way. But I will be interested to hear if others have had success. eta: for clarity 2 fp cards for each F4 It'll be the first time I've followed my own suggestion/instruction of doing my own prints & photos as well. And first F4s not involving a dealer. I'm going to do one payment sheet (or at least a note to ask them to run card once for total amount) and one set of FP cards...so we'll see. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2018 7:35:01 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for being the test case
 I am getting ready to send in 6 F4s and figured I would get a few extra fp cards from the Sheriffs office for a few more later this year and they said this was the first time someone had asked for 24 cards.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/16/2018 4:24:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Be sure to use current NFA Branch ORI, not your Sheriff’s.
Why not get them free from ATF directly? They send them quick. https://www.atf.gov/distribution-center-order-form https://www.atf.gov/distribution-center-order-form |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/16/2018 6:10:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Be sure to use current NFA Branch ORI, not your Sheriff's. Why not get them free from ATF directly? They send them quick. https://www.atf.gov/distribution-center-order-form https://www.atf.gov/distribution-center-order-form |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/27/2018 6:26:11 PM EDT
[#7]
I was just down at my dealer getting paperwork for a few transfers that came in.
He told me I only needed to submit two fingerprint cards if I sent all the forms in the same folder. He just gives me the cards when I go in so I can do it myself and he gave me 3 fingerprint cards this time, one extra in case I mess up. So I'll be submitting in a few days for two F4's and one set of prints. After getting screwed by a different dealer and waiting a year and a half with nothing to show for it 6-8 months seems like nothing so if I get an error letter and get pushed back a couple weeks, oh well. He's been around a long time though and has done other NFA stuff for me in the past so I'll believe what he says. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/27/2018 6:48:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was just down at my dealer getting paperwork for a few transfers that came in. He told me I only needed to submit two fingerprint cards if I sent all the forms in the same folder. He just gives me the cards when I go in so I can do it myself and he gave me 3 fingerprint cards this time, one extra in case I mess up. So I'll be submitting in a few days for two F4's and one set of prints. After getting screwed by a different dealer and waiting a year and a half with nothing to show for it 6-8 months seems like nothing so if I get an error letter and get pushed back a couple weeks, oh well. He's been around a long time though and has done other NFA stuff for me in the past so I'll believe what he says. The ones I was going to transfer were approved in the last 6 days. I'm going to cancel two and refile those as an entity to save the $400. I'll file the other two in order to transfer them from me to a trust. I'll send two cards total for those. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/27/2018 7:07:46 PM EDT
[#9]
I'll let you know how it goes. I didn't even think to ask, he just handed me the forms and said I only needed to submit two.
Realized I'm out of pics so I'm going to run to Costco to get those done but I'll probably get the forms out this weekend. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/27/2018 7:55:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll let you know how it goes. I didn't even think to ask, he just handed me the forms and said I only needed to submit two. Realized I'm out of pics so I'm going to run to Costco to get those done but I'll probably get the forms out this weekend. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/27/2018 8:02:39 PM EDT
[#11]
I don't have a printer.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/27/2018 10:15:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Take it for what it’s worth, but I had 3 F1’s that silencershop submitted back in April (at the same time). Received a phone call from NFA Branch last week about one of them and the researcher let me know that the trust was not included with the F1, emailed it to him ASAP and went about my day.
About an hour later the same researcher called me back and said he had the other 2 forms from the same batch and these did not have fingerprints with them, only a copy of the trust. He let me know that he made it work with what he had, but to expect more calls if this happens again. My guess is that SS submitted the 3 F1’s with only 1 copy of the trust and one set of finger print cards, and it all got separated when the NFA branch received them. This is the first time that i submitted multiple F1’s on the same SS order, usually I do them one at a time. So I’m not sure if that’s what happened or not but, I had 3 forms with only one set of FP cards between them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2018 4:31:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Submitted multiple forms with a couple sets of prints, and received a letter with regards to the missing set of prints so I will be getting more prints done.
I couldn't find any place locally that does them digitally and prints them out on the cards so I was hoping it would make it through. The local PD will do them, but they make you wait forever and make it clear they hate doing them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2018 4:41:53 PM EDT
[#14]
I did mail two forms on 8/3, and CC charged on 8/10.
One copy of the trust and two FP cards total, and I rolled those myself for the first time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2018 9:59:31 PM EDT
[#15]
You will not have a problem. Did it about 10 years ago for 3 form 4's at once
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/16/2018 5:56:11 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You will not have a problem. Did it about 10 years ago for 3 form 4's at once |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/9/2018 6:16:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did mail two forms on 8/3, and CC charged on 8/10. One copy of the trust and two FP cards total, and I rolled those myself for the first time. Just wondering how this turned out, can we do multiple forms on one set like the old days? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/9/2018 10:20:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@BigWaylon Just wondering how this turned out, can we do multiple forms on one set like the old days? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/9/2018 11:18:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Haven't heard a word... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2018 3:40:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Two print cards for multiple submissions a few times in the last year. All ok
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2018 1:11:24 PM EDT
[#21]
did it few (8ish) years ago, 2 prints for 3 forms
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2018 1:31:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
did it few (8ish) years ago, 2 prints for 3 forms We've had a couple people do it post-41F with success. Can't say I've seen anybody report they were rejected or even had an error letter sent so far. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2018 5:21:08 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
What's been your experience for anybody that has actually done it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2018 5:48:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Two print cards for multiple submissions a few times in the last year. All ok Thanks! One check and one set of cards for multiple forms, just like the old days, most excellent! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2018 5:53:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
did it few (8ish) years ago, 2 prints for 3 forms Quoted: it sounds like my answer fitted your question, if you wrote it poorly (no mention of pre41) that's not my fault What we care about now is how it is working out in 2018. Not 8 years ago. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2018 12:29:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Sounds like 2 sets of prints per packet of forms is the way to go. Is this still the case if someone submits Form 1s and Form 4s together?
Also, I am assuming that you still need 1 passport photo for EACH RP questionnaire correct? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2018 2:40:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Wish I would have known this a few days ago...lol. Just jumped on the E-file bandwagon and did a handful of Form 1's. Sent 2 fingerprint cards per cover letter. Could have saved me some fingerprint cards.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/3/2018 4:47:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was just down at my dealer getting paperwork for a few transfers that came in. He told me I only needed to submit two fingerprint cards if I sent all the forms in the same folder. He just gives me the cards when I go in so I can do it myself and he gave me 3 fingerprint cards this time, one extra in case I mess up. So I'll be submitting in a few days for two F4's and one set of prints. After getting screwed by a different dealer and waiting a year and a half with nothing to show for it 6-8 months seems like nothing so if I get an error letter and get pushed back a couple weeks, oh well. He's been around a long time though and has done other NFA stuff for me in the past so I'll believe what he says.
I have a few forms to submit and my primary dealer told me the same thing on Wednesday. I'm skeptical. I have many NFA items and have always submitted 1 copy of my trust, (and post 41P) 2 copies of the FP cards with each Form1 or 4 even if sending multiple in the same envelope and paying with the same check. This was the first time I have heard that this was done. He says he has plenty of customers who have had approvals, but I am the guy whose approvals always take a year no matter what, and while I have never had a form kicked back I have been phoned by the NFA branch and asked questions about submittals on several occasions... I feel that I am scrutinized more heavily than the average Joe-NFA. 
I'm getting FP cards done today. $10 per card sucks but I think I'd rather pay the $20 per Form (2x $10 per Form) than have to deal with a kicked back submittal later. Maybe I'll pick three lower priority Forms and do a test batch. Hmmmm.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/3/2018 6:42:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm getting FP cards done today. $10 per card sucks but I think I'd rather pay the $20 per Form (2x $10 per Form) than have to deal with a kicked back submittal later. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/3/2018 8:25:42 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It sucks even worse because you could do it for a $7 one-time cost and be done with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm getting FP cards done today. $10 per card sucks but I think I'd rather pay the $20 per Form (2x $10 per Form) than have to deal with a kicked back submittal later. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/3/2018 9:36:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Scan a good complete card, edit the form out, and reproduce infinite copies on the free ATF cards.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/3/2018 9:44:14 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Care to expound? Pay ~$7 for an inkless fingerprint pad. Roll your own at your convenience. FP card how-to |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/3/2018 10:25:52 PM EDT
[#33]
I get all my cards from the ATF. Got that one down.
Interesting. What about box 20? ___20. Signature of Official Taking Fingerprints Block ___Enter the signature or name of the official taking fingerprints. Also list the official's ID number if applicable." Taking your own fingerprints is akin to being a Notary and notarizing your own documents, which nullifies the document and can get the Notary's license revoked. What are you putting in box 20? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/3/2018 10:49:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get all my cards from the ATF. Got that one down. Interesting. What about box 20? ___20. Signature of Official Taking Fingerprints Block ___Enter the signature or name of the official taking fingerprints. Also list the official's ID number if applicable." Taking your own fingerprints is akin to being a Notary and notarizing your own documents, which nullifies the document and can get the Notary's license revoked. What are you putting in box 20? People have been doing this for decades. The ATF is using a generic FP card for a use it was never intended for. So, we follow the rules and fill out all the blocks. If you read the statutes and regulations around fingerprints, the only requirement is that the person be properly equipped to take them. And having an inkpad pretty much satisfies that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/4/2018 9:43:17 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@superdrag67 - I wonder if you and I share the same FFL/SOT.
I have a few forms to submit and my primary dealer told me the same thing on Wednesday. I'm skeptical. I have many NFA items and have always submitted 1 copy of my trust, (and post 41P) 2 copies of the FP cards with each Form1 or 4 even if sending multiple in the same envelope and paying with the same check. This was the first time I have heard that this was done. He says he has plenty of customers who have had approvals, but I am the guy whose approvals always take a year no matter what, and while I have never had a form kicked back I have been phoned by the NFA branch and asked questions about submittals on several occasions... I feel that I am scrutinized more heavily than the average Joe-NFA.
I'm getting FP cards done today. $10 per card sucks but I think I'd rather pay the $20 per Form (2x $10 per Form) than have to deal with a kicked back submittal later. Maybe I'll pick three lower priority Forms and do a test batch. Hmmmm.... I'm hoping it doesn't cause me any issues but at the same time an error letter tacking on a few weeks or a month doesn't seem like a big deal after going through the Greystone Firearms fiasco. As to the above, I use the fingerprint pad listed and yes, I do just put my own name and address in for those boxes. I've only done prints post 41P but I have approved forms based on doing it that way. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/5/2018 2:08:03 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe you should read the link I posted. People have been doing this for decades. The ATF is using a generic FP card for a use it was never intended for. So, we follow the rules and fill out all the blocks. If you read the statutes and regulations around fingerprints, the only requirement is that the person be properly equipped to take them. And having an inkpad pretty much satisfies that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I get all my cards from the ATF. Got that one down. Interesting. What about box 20? ___20. Signature of Official Taking Fingerprints Block ___Enter the signature or name of the official taking fingerprints. Also list the official's ID number if applicable." Taking your own fingerprints is akin to being a Notary and notarizing your own documents, which nullifies the document and can get the Notary's license revoked. What are you putting in box 20? People have been doing this for decades. The ATF is using a generic FP card for a use it was never intended for. So, we follow the rules and fill out all the blocks. If you read the statutes and regulations around fingerprints, the only requirement is that the person be properly equipped to take them. And having an inkpad pretty much satisfies that. The post you link starts with: "I've never actually had to submit prints, so this info was gathered from several sources." and the instructions for box 20 specifically reads: 20. Signature of Official Taking Fingerprints Block Enter the signature or name of the official taking fingerprints. Also list the official's ID number if applicable. "Read the statutes and regulations" ??
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/5/2018 2:12:53 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Mr_Maim I seem to remember from another thread (or maybe AZS) that we have the same SOT. I'm hoping it doesn't cause me any issues but at the same time an error letter tacking on a few weeks or a month doesn't seem like a big deal after going through the Greystone Firearms fiasco. As to the above, I use the fingerprint pad listed and yes, I do just put my own name and address in for those boxes. I've only done prints post 41P but I have approved forms based on doing it that way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
@superdrag67 - I wonder if you and I share the same FFL/SOT.
I have a few forms to submit and my primary dealer told me the same thing on Wednesday. I'm skeptical. I have many NFA items and have always submitted 1 copy of my trust, (and post 41P) 2 copies of the FP cards with each Form1 or 4 even if sending multiple in the same envelope and paying with the same check. This was the first time I have heard that this was done. He says he has plenty of customers who have had approvals, but I am the guy whose approvals always take a year no matter what, and while I have never had a form kicked back I have been phoned by the NFA branch and asked questions about submittals on several occasions... I feel that I am scrutinized more heavily than the average Joe-NFA.
I'm getting FP cards done today. $10 per card sucks but I think I'd rather pay the $20 per Form (2x $10 per Form) than have to deal with a kicked back submittal later. Maybe I'll pick three lower priority Forms and do a test batch. Hmmmm.... I'm hoping it doesn't cause me any issues but at the same time an error letter tacking on a few weeks or a month doesn't seem like a big deal after going through the Greystone Firearms fiasco. As to the above, I use the fingerprint pad listed and yes, I do just put my own name and address in for those boxes. I've only done prints post 41P but I have approved forms based on doing it that way.
You're right, it would only add a few weeks. I've got a trio of forms I am going to submit one set of prints with, mailing sometime this week. I'll post back my results in a year.
Thanks for the note regarding taking prints yourself and putting your own information in Box 20. That is a firsthand experience successfully doing it that way, great to hear! Did you submit multiple forms with one set of print cards? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/5/2018 3:03:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did. How about you pump the brakes on your finger wagging. The post you link starts with: "I've never actually had to submit prints, so this info was gathered from several sources." and the instructions for box 20 specifically reads: 20. Signature of Official Taking Fingerprints Block Enter the signature or name of the official taking fingerprints. Also list the official's ID number if applicable. "Read the statutes and regulations" ?? I have submitted prints since then, but never updated that sentence. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Yes. The statutes and regulations. You can start with the Form 1 or 4: 2.e. says: Photograph and Fingerprints. An individual maker (including any Federally licensed collector who is an individual but not any other type of Federal Firearms licensee) must (1) attach to each copy except for the CLEO copy in item 12 of the ATF Form 1, a 2 inch x 2 inch photograph of his/her frontal view taken within one year prior to the date of the application and (2) submit two properly completed FBI Forms FD-258 (Fingerprint Card with blue lines) with application. The fingerprints must be clear for accurate classification and taken by someone properly equipped to take them. Which is pretty much a copy/paste of what is in 27 CFR 479.85: § 479.85 Identification of transferee. (a) If the transferee is an individual, such person shall: (1) Securely attach to each copy of the Form 4, in the space provided on the form, a 2 x 2-inch photograph of the applicant, clearly showing a full front view of the features of the applicant with head bare, with the distance from the top of the head to the point of the chin approximately 1 1/4 inches, and which shall have been taken within 1 year prior to the date of the application; and (2) Attach to the application two properly completed FBI Forms FD-258 (Fingerprint Card). The fingerprints must be clear for accurate classification and should be taken by someone properly equipped to take them. (b) If the transferee is not a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer qualified under this part and is a partnership, company, association, trust, or corporation, such person shall: (1) Be identified on the Form 4 by the name and exact location of the place of business, including the name and number of the building and street, and the name of the county in which the business is located or, in the case of a trust, the primary location at which the firearm will be maintained. In the case of two or more locations, the address shown shall be the principal place of business (or principal office, in the case of a corporation) or, in the case of a trust, the primary location at which the firearm will be maintained; (2) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, attach to the application - (i) Documentation evidencing the existence and validity of the entity, which includes complete and unredacted copies of partnership agreements, articles of incorporation, corporate registration, and declarations of trust, with any trust schedules, attachments, exhibits, and enclosures; (ii) A completed ATF Form 5320.23 for each responsible person. Form 5320.23 requires certain identifying information, including the responsible person's full name, position, home address, date of birth, and country of citizenship if other than the United States; (iii) In the space provided on Form 5320.23, a 2 x 2-inch photograph of each responsible person, clearly showing a full front view of the features of the responsible person with head bare, with the distance from the top of the head to the point of the chin approximately 1 1/4 inches, and which shall have been taken within 1 year prior to the date of the application; and (iv) Two properly completed FBI Forms FD-258 (Fingerprint Card) for each responsible person. The fingerprints must be clear for accurate classification and should be taken by someone properly equipped to take them. (c) If the applicant entity has had an application approved as a maker or transferee within the preceding 24 months, and there has been no change to the documentation previously provided, the entity may provide a certification that the information has not been changed since the prior approval and shall identify the application for which the documentation had been submitted by form number, serial number, and date approved. The rules are different for explosives...in case you search for fingerprint requirements. (Lots of people find an ATF Q&A that says fingerprints must be taken by law enforcement, but miss the fact it's in the explosives section of atf.gov) |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/5/2018 7:50:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@superdrag67 , entirely possible. I post a lot of stuff on a lot of forums...
You're right, it would only add a few weeks. I've got a trio of forms I am going to submit one set of prints with, mailing sometime this week. I'll post back my results in a year.
Thanks for the note regarding taking prints yourself and putting your own information in Box 20. That is a firsthand experience successfully doing it that way, great to hear! Did you submit multiple forms with one set of print cards? I did submit the multiple forms with one set of print cards. That wasn't that long ago so I don't expect to hear anything on those until early next year at best. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/13/2018 1:43:57 AM EDT
[#40]
I have done two submissions with multiple forms mailed together with a single set of fingerprint cards for each RP. My most recent approval (approved 7/2/18) was for 6 F1's and 6 F4's all mailed together in a single envelope with a single set of fingerprint cards for each RP. What's really nice is once the background check is done, all the forms get approved together on the same day.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/21/2018 7:38:20 AM EDT
[#41]
Alright, short notice biz trip done and now I'm back at this.
Thank you @BigWaylon for the detailed explanation. I appreciate it. I had a bunch of cards rolled, perhaps when I have exhausted this supply I'll try rolling my own. Thank you @superdrag67, I'm going to be doing the same thing. I'm going to be submitting four forms and one pair of FP cards and one copy of my Trust. I'll report back in a year.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/21/2018 8:12:55 PM EDT
[#42]
I just spoke with a helpful gal at the ATF concerning a correction I needed to make on one of my forms.
She did in fact confirm that much like submitting one copy of your trust you can submit multiple forms with a single set of prints.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2018 3:27:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just spoke with a helpful gal at the ATF concerning a correction I needed to make on one of my forms. She did in fact confirm that much like submitting one copy of your trust you can submit multiple forms with a single set of prints. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/26/2018 9:24:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has anyone tried this with the new eForms and cover letters? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just spoke with a helpful gal at the ATF concerning a correction I needed to make on one of my forms. She did in fact confirm that much like submitting one copy of your trust you can submit multiple forms with a single set of prints. Edited to add: Did find this which seems to indicate it's legit; https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/E-form-1-back-online/17-493082/?page=5#i5037221 |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/26/2018 11:35:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also interested in this. ^ Edited to add: Did find this which seems to indicate it's legit; https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/E-form-1-back-online/17-493082/?page=5#i5037221 |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2018 3:29:48 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did end up submitting a question through the eForm site. The specialist that responded said that you could send in one set of fingerprint cards and just include all the applicable cover sheets. In the meantime, my big recommendation for anyone doing an Efile Form 1 is to have your digital photos and printed/signed/scanned responsible person forms all lined up and ready to upload before you even start the form. Plus the usual thing about making sure Chrome allows unsafe scripts for the domain, you allow the payment popup after it invariably gets blocked, and you turn off any ad-blocker addons. |
|
|
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
