Don't need a visible laser, and the illuminator need only work out to 300 yards or so.

Just want something that is reliable, will hold zero, and activate both laser and illuminator with one push. Size is not really a concern (as long as it will mount onto a rail, lol). Would also considered used if that is recommended for this type thing.

Possible for $500?

For 500 your not going to find a LAM that will reach out to 300m unless you buy a Russian built unit that may not last very long with zero retention being questionable at best .Save for a bit more and buy a new/used Steiner D2 for 800-950 which can reach out to 500m +.

An IR only OTAL and TNVC Torch plus a mount might set you back $600-650 depending on buying on sale or from the EE

Affordable in the night vision world is not what most people would actually call affordable FYI.

It’s a niche market so volume is low. Therefore profit margins have to be high for folks to stay in business.

I’ve found its best to decide what hotness I want and then save for it until I have the money.

Check out the streamlight tlr2 eye safe ir. It’s an ir laser/illuminator for around $300. Backed by a good company with a good warranty. Can be mounted to a pistol or rifle. Illuminator is bright for the small package and ir laser is the legal max of .7. I’m very happy with mine.

Holosun has a unit out for around $560.

No idea on quality, but I saw Haley running it in a recent video. Worth looking into.

Yeah, but it's a neutered class 1 output. No way it can meet his range requirement.

I think a used OTAL or CQBL plus a good LED based illuminator is his best bet unless going Russian. That's just a little less than a used D2 though.

i bought a peq2 for 300

The Unimax IR with an Inforce WML with IR is a hard combo to beat for the price, but it won't get you to 300 yards.

Very low profile and light weight combo as well.

I2 IR/IR might be your best bet.

They’re right around $600 I think.

Nice, usually they go for 700+ used.

Adding that to you long list of accomplishments lol. I wish I could find a 2 for that.

actually, i didn't find it

my best friend (a cola bro) found one for me. i just did the buying

i also bought a peq4 for 250, knowing people in the right place really helps

You'll be lucky to get the illuminator out to 70 yards and maybe 100ish in a near dark setting. Although they do very well indoors or trying to have the lowest signature when deployed outdoors.

here's an interesting note on the 300-yard requirement

at that distance, the practicality of the laser is becoming greatly diminished

here why: bullets aren't lasers

the laser will continue forever in a straight path while the bullet continues to drop

here's why that's a real problem: point of reference. if you do not deliberately test the laser-weapon combination at specific-known distances and use a range-finding device during practical use at distance past your zero distance... you'll be flailing around trying to hit when you really want to

so, you're limited to engagement distances within your zero distance, and just beyond it

another reason why most users don't use lasers to engage targets at extended distances: their light amplification device won't allow positive identification, mostly due to lowered resolution

these are why dedicated weapon-mounted night vision devices exist

and why most people don't use a laser past 200 yards

What about putting the gun in a benchrest and centering on a nightlight in an outdoor outlet 200 yards away. Then adjust the IR laser until it hits the nightlight's photodiode and turns it off

I always zero my laser to my RDS 50/200 at the furthest distance I can see. From the widest point @ 1.75" center of the laser emitter to the bore of the rifle all the way to the apex where the 2 points intersect will only get closer to each other. Like RDS the key to distance ranges is knowing your hold overs.

I dont know anyone shooting you a pm on an unrelated note.

i wouldn't unless the laser is vertically in-line with the bore

if you zero the laser to meet the point-of-impact at a specified distance, it's only useful for that distance

past that point, the laser is actually crossed the line of bore in two axis

please let me explain (i'm not being patronizing or condescending, i promise)

the line of bore is a straight line, extended past the physical bore it will remain so
we're only really concerned with the vertical axis really, here's why: the bullets leaving the bore are not going act the same way as a laser beam

more on that in a second

the laser is a straight line, it will also remain a straight line until beam angular divergence (the diameter of the beam) expands into uselessness

what does this mean to you?

well, since the bullet travels in an arc once it leaves the bore, we should really only need to line up the laser at a point somewhere along the vertical axis (the up-and-down line) where the bullet and the laser meet on a target at a known distance

unless your laser is directly in-line with the bore, the laser (sight) will reside either to the right or the left of the bore

this distance is your horizontal offset

in a perfect world, with no wind, and a perfect shooter... your bullet should land that far to the left or right from where your laser impacts the target

but here's where most people get their head bent in half:
past that distance the laser will actually reside below the round impact... to an extent

for example: let's say you are that perfect shooter in a no-wind environment. and let's also say your hypothetical laser resides exactly 1 inches above your line of bore (this is important information).
you decide to zero your rifle and laser at 200 yards. the round impacts at the same horizontal plane on a steel target at that distance. awesome.

let's say (hypothetically) that you fire on a target at 400 yards, twice the distance of your zero.
you will have placed your laser 1 inch lower than before (raising your line of bore 1 inch higher), but your round is actually dropping much faster.
let's say... I dunno, a typical Speer Spitzer 55-grain softpoint, moving around 2500 FPS and zeroed at 200 yards. that would have dropped almost 33 inches

if you add in the fact that none of us are perfect shooters, and that wind does occur (and is even more difficult to judge at night) it turns into trying to hit a pinata at-distance. if you try to perform this sort of searching-fire technique while the ground is wet, it's an exercise in controlling frustration

i don't know of any magic weapon-ammunition combination that will match its rate of drop with the degree of distance change that your laser will produce

what I do know is this, your bullet will run out of energy faster than that laser vertical correction is exhibited

if you're new to infrared lasers i would recommend following the instructions for zeroing from the manufacturer, the horizontal offset is typically included for that particular laser (sight)
vertical offset doesn't matter that much unless you know at what [exact] distance your target is located and have the time to apply a known correction

and if you think correctly visually estimating range without a subtended reticle during the day is difficult, try it at night

long story short: lasers are good for short range, dynamic, fast-moving, and often-changing engagement environments
dedicated weapon-mounted optics are good for extended distances

just like the day time

if you zero with anything other than a parallel zero, your laser will fall below your line-of-bore past your zero distance

if you really think about it, that's both useful, and not useful

if you perform this type of zero, i'd recommend testing it on paper targets before you rely on it

as far as "holds" go, you're limited to your individual ability and the capability of your light amplification equipment to determine depth-at-distance
basically, how good you are at guessing distances in the dark with the gear you have

again, another reason why dedicated weapon-mounted optics are preferred at extended distances

I haven't measured how far exactly it works, but I'm pretty sure mine throws illumination a lot further than that.

there are several dedicated civilian-available illuminators that throw energy well past 200 yards
the SPIR being the first one that comes to mind.

it can produce enough illumination at 600 yards to aid a clip-on device and up to 800 yards for general illumination

however, it does cost around $700

my apologies though, i am not familiar with many other stand-alone civilian-available illuminators

All ways of zeroing weather it's a scope, rds, laser, iron sights, etc will alway fall below the line of bore since the barrel is slightly angled upwards.

I have tested my zero on paper as well as steel out past 300m and have had excellent results

I'm not sure if your using a magnifier on your NV, but I have no problem estimating distance with my 7s, 14s, or duals out to 400+

Definitely the ability to see under moon/star/light pollution will help with estimating distance. Using an IR illuminator it a near pitch black condition is very difficult to gauge distance of a target starting @ 200m+

I will be the first to admit lasers are not precision aiming devices by any means.

You should get out and try it. I've owned (2) IR/IR 9007, (1) OTAL-C IR, (1) D2, I've used L3 APTIAL-C, PEQ 2/15/16B/LA5 and can tell you for a fact the 9007 in an urban setting will illuminate very little past 75 yards while using a high spec ITT/Harris PVS14 Gen3 HP+ unit. Maybe and I mean maybe 125 yards under a heavy canopy.

a parallel zero won't fall below the line of bore at anything but extreme/past usefulness distances. personally, i just use a parallal "zero" as a starting point.. kinda like bore-sighting your gun for a new optic

if you shoot in the desert, or in a location that has few features to help determine distance (like vehicles or buildings) through height comparison... it can be a real challenge. this is very true for terrain you haven't seen during daylight hours. everything looks flat

binocular night vision goggles are useful for helping your eyes retain some depth perception, but i haven't found magnifiers to be as useful

i've also found the use of illuminators to artificially exaggerate or understate my visual range estimations, but that's probably not going to be the case for everybody

I’ll play around with it tonight maybe we’ll go for a walk in the woods and get some measurements.

I’ve got a lot of time with a PEQ15 also, and don’t notice any difference on low mode.

I thought TNVC said that it has the same Illuminator as the
A3.

If I use an intersecting zero with the vis laser to 1,500 yards, it will also not fall well below the usefulness of most cartridges. The only difference is the intersecting zero only gets closer to the apex while the parallel zero will stay the same distance apart. All in all neither is good for precision and more for quick shots like an RDS.

Try it in different lighting environments to get a good idea of it's capability. The DBAL 9007 IR illuminator output is 4.0mw and the PEQ 15s on low illuminator is 3.0mw so the 9007 is actually a little brighter. On Hi with the beam narrowed the PEQs illuminator is Death Star planet obliterator bright.

there are a lot of problems with this theory

even with a max-loaded Berger 80-grain VLD from a hand-lapped match barrel you're still going to be way off

if you put your dot on a target at the midpoint of your zero distance (in this case around 750 yards) you'll be shooting high. like, 28 feet high
yeah, you read that correctly. well over 300 inches of correction

also, most laser-dot sights don't have that much adjustment
they certainly don't have the required 90 minutes of total adjustment that your mental exercise would require
i'm not even going to get into beam divergence at-distance

so let's solve the problem instead of poking fun

it's easier to conceptualize if you think of the dot as your crosshairs/reticle... only actually hitting the target

here's what i would recommend [for a specific load] for engaging at the furthest distance with your infrared laser and a capable light-amplification device:

determine the ballistic path of your round, there are several simple ballistics applications available for you to do this. i'd start with JBM Ballistics and a known velocity

then play with the number you place in the "zero" field for the program and determine an acceptable trajectory that you can consistently achieve

here's an example:

i am capable of zeroing a rifle at 400 yards. i fill the JBM Ballistics app with the relevant data for the round i'm shooting and just fill the "zero" data field with 400

i look at the resulting data and determine that under average conditions i will be hitting a foot high mid-range (halfway) to my zero

is this acceptable for me? for practical purposes, yes
if i want to hit the guy in the chest at 200 yards, aim at his belt
at 400 yards, if i want to hit a dude in the chest, aim at his chest
if i want to hit his head at 400 yards, hold over about a foot (you can estimate this from the height of a typical adult male head, which is just under a foot)

good enough for metal-to-skin contact

if this is for precision work, then it is not an acceptable zero and i should reduce my zero distance

let's re-work the problem with a 200 yard zero

OK, with the same load i am getting data that shows i will be 2 inches high at 100 yards, dead-on at 200 yards, hitting 8 inches low at 300, and hitting 22 inches low at 400 yards

more importantly, i would be within 2 inches of point-of-aim/point-of-impact all the way out to 225 yards
so, that's better

depending on my anticipated engagement distances, this would also be acceptable for practical purposes.
why? because a 200 yard zero is meant for closer work

unless you want to dial for distances with your laser (and you can do that) i'd just stick with keeping the laser within acceptable close-range engagement distances

once again, not being patronizing or sarcastic: lasers are for close work, dedicated optics are for distant work

That's what I've been saying in all of my post the only difference is you prefer the parallel and I use the intersecting method.

With how coarse the adjustments are on most lasers, the settings for parallel zero and an intersecting zero (with day optic red dot) as far as you can see the IR laser are literally the same setting.

And then you have to consider the actual size of the dot as far as you can see it, vs the difference between those two zeroes.

Let's say we adjust our IR laser to be as close to the optic dot as we can out at a few hundred yards; if it's the typical ~2 o'clock position for the laser, we know the laser is where we want it if we can't adjust it any more left without being left of the red dot, or any more up without being above the red dot.    Adjusting either windage or elevation at this point will make the laser noticeably off to that direction - again, due to how coarse the adjustments are.

This is, in most cases, as good as you are going to get.

...

I used to be all nuts about doing a parallel zero using custom-made targets that take my sight/laser/bore offsets into account.    Now I just match it to the red dot at several hundred yards and call it good; it produces the same result for me.

I couldn't agree more..

OTAL Laser alone is around $300.
Other than a flashlight, Surefire Vampire, which won't reach that far, you aren't getting a 300 yard illuminator for that cheap.

Maybe an early model Luna Optics with the filter removed? I’m not suggesting you remove the filter, I’m just saying it might do the trick.

i just zero at 200 and pay attention to my horizontal offset

as far as divergence goes, isn't a peq15 dot something like 2 feet across at 1500 yards?

i dunno, my math might be off. i should check that tonight