Haveing the strangest issue.  Running an 18" AUG with several thousand rounds through it.  Normally the gun is quite reliable.  Most of its diet is reloaded brass. Typically 40 gr up to 73 gr.  Most of the diet is 55 and 62.   Very reliable.  

EXCEPT, anything loaded with CFE 223 powder.  For whatever reason, that powder very frequently will fail to fully eject, and bind up with a double-feed event of the new round trying to go in and the spent casing trying to as well, at the same time.  Switch to the same 55 gr or 62 gr ammo with any other powder, and she runs like a Swiss watch.  Adverse setting doesn't change anything; and maybe is even worse.  Magazine doesn't matter.

Is anyone else experiencing this?  Just odd.   Unfortunately, I've got a decent amount of that powder and ammunition loaded with it, that shoots good in an AR15 platform, no problems at all.  Run over a thousand rounds through ever AR configuration and gas system you can imagine, runs great.  Velocity checks out, everything seems fine with the ammo.  Though it's a bit hot, but in spec.

I will say, the recoil impulse is pretty strong, suggesting there's maybe excessive port pressure?  I can't help but wonder if my barrel gas-port on the 18" is too big or something.  My AUG recoil has always felt high for just .223.  Did they use the same size hole as the 16", on the 18", and so it's oversized, or something?

Probably nothing but wasn't 2019 the time frame Steyr stopped using FN barrels?

Late 2018, Steyr USA switched from FN to unfinished Austrian blanks.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Steyr-AUG-barrel-question-/43-508999/

Yea, it's the weirdest thing.  The gun has a factory Steyr FN chrome lined barrel (which personally I think are overrated).  And in my ownership has been quite reliable.

I made up a large batch ofXM556FBIT3 62 gr Barrier Blind ammo; running CFE223, and a warm load of it.   My AR's all like it just fine.  Run that through the AUG, and I started getting jams.  Run it over a Chrony and velocity checks out just fine, matches up with the books.  But like every shot jammed almost, it was terrible.  I was pissed off, and tried different extractors, bolts, gas settings, you name it = and it just kept jamming like crazy.  Wondered if it was time to sell or something, but then casually noticed that it seemed like all my jams are with just one type of ammo.... I switched to anything else, and it ran good.

This weekend, I took the AUG out, this time with 55 FMJ ammo I had on the shelf, and after 5 rounds, it started jamming again.  Son Of A Bi... wtf?? So Ifought it for a while, and finally looked at my label on my box of reloads, and there it was:  CFE223 (normally I use a different powder for 55).  

So, I brought it back out again the next day with 62 and 55 gr loads using the likes of 8208 and LT32, and all those ran 100%; not a single jam. Went through something like 80 rounds or so; ran great.

I don't get it.  Does this stuff gum up chambers like the Wolf-Steel powders?  Is the pressure curve weird and my overgassed AUG becomes a WAY overgassed AUG?  

Donno; but the issue is unique to running that powder with me.

If your department is having problems, what ammo are they running?  Isn't a lot of mil-spec factory ammo loaded with CFE223 now?  (or Midwest Powder's direct copy - MP530; which is frequently what is used by DoD contract, and I use the terms interchangeably)

Total shot in the dark...are you running US or Austrian mags? My preban AUG hates US made mags and will choke on them, while every other mag works perfect.  The US made ones have a clear square around the round count numbers

Both Austrian Waffle mags, and US PMags.  And again, run 100% with all ammo, except with ammo made with CFE223.

I owned three different Steyr-Augs from around 1982-1995.  Two 20" barreled green stocked rifles, and one black 16" barreled rifle.   They ate anything I fed them regardless of powder.  I used 55, 62, 68 and 69 grain bullets, and W-748, H335, X-terminator, BLC-2, and 4 or 5 other powders, and all three rifles ran like sewing machines...no issues whatsoever.  I realize that won't help OP, but unless CFE-223 is the only powder he has access to, I would simply switch powders and not worry about it.

My guess is that the pressure curve for CFE-223 is off just enough that your rifle doesn't like it.  

In the agency I used to work for, there were a number of officers who carried the Glock 21 (45 ACP) pistols.  Out of all those officers who carried those pistols (that were required to be stock pistols), there was one pistol that would not operate reliably with Fiocchi 230 grain ball ammo...It didn't matter if magazines were changed, and any other Glock 21 in the agency would fire the ammo just fine...just that one pistol that didn't like Fiocchi ammo.  There was nothing wrong with the ammo..that one gun didn't like it.

It is entirely possible that OP has one of those freak guns that for whatever unknown reason just doesn't like one powder or one type of ammo.  It happens.

It would be real interesting to chrono your various loadings, same type bullet and case but different powders to see what is going on. By chance are the cases showing anything unusual, around the mouth, the rim, primer? Have you measured the cases after using this powder? Since these are reloads, any idea how many times these cases have been reused? Idk but just throwing things out there...

Velocity is normal and in spec, casings look fine, lots are segregated by case life  1 fired, 3 fired, and everything in between.  Doesnt seem to matter.  CFE223, it wont eject right, and jams.

It's gotta be the pressure curve. When Australia went from their F1 ammo to F1A1 they specifically changed the powder to more closely match the pressure curve of US M855

It sounds like it is definitely over-gassed.

Unfortunately other than making a custom gas plug, I don't know that there is any solution for that with an AUG.

Your only off the shelf answer is to not use that powder.

Maybe borrow someone's suppressor gas plug. That might cut the gas enough for it to cycle. Or it might cut the gas too much and it still won't cycle  

I found the pressure curve to be out of whack with all of the “copper fouling eraser” additive powders. The additive (surprise, its Bismuth) really screws with the burn rate and combustion properties, it causes pressure to build in a not well defined way, and its a finicky little shit. Not to mention its really temp sensitive. I firmly believe that the bismuth additive retards burn rate as pressure builds, but in a non linear way.

It seems to have this narrow window of effective use: heavy projectile at maximum published load data.
Middle of the road, “conservative” loads with some 52gr bthp’s I loaded, have really erratic velocities with sd/es all over the board.
Switched out to a 69gr at max pressure and it suddenly calmed down.

Also, the only reason why this crap is now everywhere is because the patent expired in 2014.

If you look at a powder burn chart, CFE223 is on the slower side.  I'm not a powder expert but I'm going to assume that the burn rate is causing the issue.

Cfe223 is a sneaky powder. It will push projectiles to crazy velocities but is heat sensitive and has to be worked up slowly. I’m only using it in bolt or lever actions- 8mm Mauser and 30-30 (very similar to leverevolution )

I really hope I only have one eight pound jug

Wow thanks for posting, I had no idea it was bismuth.

I am not going to buy anymore CFE powder then, not due to performance, but due to the toxicity of bismuth.

No thanks to breathing aerosolized bismuth laden particulates.

The data is poor and "less toxic than lead" is a low bar. Also, lung particulates are a different animal compared to oral ingestion.

Having studied this subject intensively, the phrase "relatively low toxicity for a heavy metal"  is a red flag. That's like saying being shot with a 22LR is "relatively less lethal". No thanks.

There is a lot more to metal toxicity than animal studies and LD50 numbers. Those don't capture neurological issues and chronic long term issues.

Good thing I only have a couple of pounds of the stuff.

Wow after doing some more reading it seems that many if not most powders now have either metallic tin or bismuth added as a decoppering agent. Usually bismuth.

Well... damn. That's news to me.

Well theres technically 3 ways to reduce copper fouling. (All act on aerosolized copper and either embrittle it or act as a sort of lubricant/surfactant)

Bismuth is the new hotness as it can be marketed as “green” or whatever.
Tin, as the form of tin dioxide, which does work, but works better in conjunction with lead.
And Lead.

Copper fouling wasnt as much of an issue in the old days, funny enough, because the lead in primer compounds assisted in reducing aerosolized copper precipitate adhesion.
Granted is was bad for shooters, but that was when doctors advised smoking and other dumb things.

Edit: if you’re looking for a powder without an anti-coppering agent, there are still quite a few. I believe that the powders coming out of czechia factory “Lovex” sold in this country under the “shooters world” brand name are free of anticoppering agents. All powders made by ADI and sold through hodgdon, have no anti coppering additive.
When you take a look at those hodgdon powders, you notice things like h322, h4350, H4381sc, H4895, retumbo, varget. And its like “hol up, why are all of the powders used for high precision and accuracy distinctly void of anti coppering additives?” Weird coincidence.

Thanks so much for posting. You have a lot of knowledge on powder, do you work in the industry?

Bismuth is similar to tungsten as being marketed as "less toxic" but IMO it's mostly nonsense.

The army did a study a while back on tungsten penetrator spall vs depleted uranium as a "greener" alternative and found that tungsten particles in tissue caused cancer almost 100% of the time in their animal studies. I believe it was more carcinogenic than the uranium which was obviously not expected. Just an example.

Anyway I think shooters are becoming more aware of the toxicity of lead but are not so clued into the fact that ALL metals are toxic and that breathing aerosols is a different animal from oral ingestion.

Aussies use IMR 8208 for their current loads.

I load 26 gr of CFE223 with a 55gr Hornady 2267.

I have shot thousands of rounds of it through my Steyr AUG with no issues whatsoever...not a single one.

There are so many variables in reloading that the powder is one of the last I usually check.

If you hare having jams and failures to extract the first place I would check is your sizing operation.  Not pushing the shoulders back far enough and not having adequate headspace is usually the culprit if your are getting jams.

Good luck.

?

 It's specific to this powder.  Same brass. All other powders run 100% - hence this entire thread.

Glad yours runs fine though.  Is it an 18" FN cL BBL?

I have CFE223 and brass and bullets. I will dig them out, load them up and fire them off.

I remember when you posted this originally but couldn't take action due to an under reconstruction range.

Interchangeability is key in my shop.

I ordered my rifle from Pete after seeing and reading about yours so it's a copy.

Awesome!  Looking forward to your findings.

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I estimate digging two feet down is where the powder begins.

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My A3M1 I copied from you.

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One of three 8s I bought a bit ago! At first I was mad but they may work wonderfully in AUGs. That rifle is not dialed in but it will fire so I'll post next week if not sooner.

I don't work for Hodgdon or anything so I don't have a dog in this fight; I'm just saying that two people can load the same powder for the same caliber and shoot it out of the same firearm and have completely different results due to how they reloaded it.

You haven't told us how many grains you load or bullet type, bullet weight, COL or any of the other variables that go into reloading.  How many grains are you loading?  Did you try more...less?  I certainly wouldn't get into the weeds about barrel length just yet.

I even had a batch of powder once that gave me a lot of misfires until I pulled the bullets and found I hadn't dried the cases enough and the powder got damp. (Thankfully it was only 20 rounds or so)

Good luck.

I have shot thousands of rounds out of my AUG A3 loaded with CFE223, same with a friend. 27.3 for 55’s, can’t remember off the top of my head what I load for 50’s.

I got rounds loaded and can't wait to get to the range! The powder meters great(though I single-staged these rounds).

@lazyengineer
You're not running a suppressor, right? I'm running stock all the way for this little venture.

It looks like Monday/Tuesday for shooting.

No suppressor.  Can't wait to see your Summer Solstice shoot results!

I found: 15 rds, 26 gr CFE223, 55gr pulls(all rounds fired today!): no issues, controlled fire.

15 rds, 26.5 CFE223: no issues.

15 rds, 27gr CFE223: no issues.

15 rds, 27.5 gr CFE223: issue with 12th round; ejected but double-fed live rounds(?)but no further issues; both rounds(no real damage, minor scrape)were remagged and fired fine.

My plan is to continue with 27.5 after cleaning rifle. I must say my rate of fire may have been a little quicker than at the start.

I welcome any ideas for helping lazyengineer find his issue.

I neglected to say I fired 20 rds after testing(?)of my usual load(aa2230, 23.4 grs)without issue.

To follow-up, it's a case of my unit just straight up being overgassed, and this is a slow burning powder.  Ran it this weekend.  With fast burning powder, and ran like a swiss watch with some nice 2-3:00 ejection.

Ran it with CFE223 ammo, and it ran today), but with an ejection pattern that was basically 12:30; and recoiled a lot more too.  

BTW, it ran quite well with the good fast-powder ammo (NOT CFE223).  I've found that my AUG at least, really really likes a faster powder, with pretty decent accuracy, and very pleasant recoil. In general, I consider the AUG to have much more recoil and movement than it should, for a simple .223.  But if I run the below recipie with that powder (LOVE LT32 - fine-chopped extruded that meters like ball), it's just a very pleasant experience.  With good velocity.

I also tested point of impact using two different ways of resting the gun, with no real noticeable change.





vs pommel rest (how I often shoot it)




Performance on target at 200 yards (center of head aim, so looks like need to click up)
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Favorite AUG load: