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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 12:32:14 PM EDT
Cool info on the reticle
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2024/03/14/potd-austrian-army-sturmgewehr-77-a1-mod-steyr-aug/ 
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CHE
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Posted: 3/17/2024 12:39:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Awesome ! Thanks so much.
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Posted: 3/17/2024 3:35:31 PM EDT
[#2]
OP did well!
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 7:55:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Very helpful.
Per the reddit thread on the reticle, this is likely based on a 20" barrel firing 55gr M193 equivalent. One of the posters said that Austria still uses the 55gr. https://www.reddit.com/r/AUG/comments/1bgipew/aug_a3_sf_reticle_official_from_the_austrian_army/ I'll have to look at the ballistic charts to see how that stacks up for zeroing with a 16", using a bit slower wolf gold... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:40:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Very helpful. Per the reddit thread on the reticle, this is likely based on a 20" barrel firing 55gr M193 equivalent. One of the posters said that Austria still uses the 55gr. https://www.reddit.com/r/AUG/comments/1bgipew/aug_a3_sf_reticle_official_from_the_austrian_army/ I'll have to look at the ballistic charts to see how that stacks up for zeroing with a 16", using a bit slower wolf gold... Since the Austrians use the a3 sf scope on 16" barreled guns, i'm more inclined to believe the reticle is set for a 16" (or euro equivalent) barrel ballistics. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 1:27:26 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By APSArmament: Since the Austrians use the a3 sf scope on 16" barreled guns, i'm more inclined to believe the reticle is set for a 16" (or euro equivalent) barrel ballistics.  |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 6:39:32 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryAh, another variable then - do the new Austrian Army rifles use the 60mm scope + 10mm riser, as seen in that pic? That'll also impact the ballistics calculator a bit. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:17:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu: Originally Posted By APSArmament: Since the Austrians use the a3 sf scope on 16" barreled guns, i'm more inclined to believe the reticle is set for a 16" (or euro equivalent) barrel ballistics. pic 1 Pic 2 I could easily go on. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:37:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By APSArmament: Originally Posted By mcantu: Originally Posted By APSArmament: Since the Austrians use the a3 sf scope on 16" barreled guns, i'm more inclined to believe the reticle is set for a 16" (or euro equivalent) barrel ballistics. pic 1 Pic 2 I could easily go on. You're both right. The original A3 SF of years ago was likely based on the 16" barrel for Austrias Jagkomando cool guys. I have never seen what reticle they used confirmed. The new '3X SF MilDot' that just came out was almost certainly developed for this Austrian Army modernization, who use 20" barrels. And the scopes we have in the US are likely contract overruns for the Army. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:13:15 PM EDT
[#9]
The reticle is 100% for the newer scopes, like what became available here in the USA. The guns/scopes with the 20in barrels are the Stg77 A1 MOD rifles. It says so right on the paper. The guns w/ 16in barrels are the Stg77 A2 Kommando. Austrian SOF units have used those for close to 20 years (but are phasing them out for newer models with modified flat tops).
I think @sydercomonkey was the first to mention it. I for one never noticed. But looking at the numerous pics and doing a bit of a dive into the the rifles, A1 MOD for their professional soldiers. Interesting enough, it looks like they do use the 10mm risers. They appeared to be installed in every picture I've seen (20+ of them). |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2024 2:27:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: spydercomonkey]
[#10]
I think the mil dots, or at least the chart provided, might be very off.
Or at least off for how we're all going to use it - with a 16" barrel and optic mounted at 60mm. Here's a ballistic calculator of 55gr @ 3000fps, .120 G7 BC, with a 60mm (2.36") optic height, using a 300m (328yd) zero. Note how with a 300m zero, rounds hit higher at 200 than 100; the opposite of what is shown in the chart. And while the reticle shows evenly spaced levels of drop with the little mil dots, actually drop is not linear at all.  And 300YD zero, since this is America and wtf is meter relative to football fields. Smoother but still doesnt track with reticle.  I'm not hip with mil dots and such, but seems off. Here's 20" + 70mm optic height ala Austrian Army. Less variation but still hits higher at 200 then 100 
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CHE
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Posted: 3/20/2024 12:48:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: And the scopes we have in the US are likely contract overruns for the Army. This was confirmed to me by the folks in AL. My scope had a small spec which was quickly replaced . I was told unequivocably that these scopes are indeed military over-run scopes being pulled from the Steyr AUG A3AW (Alpine Warfare) 556 Green STG77 Special Forces 3X Optic models that are currently offered. They are made on the Swarovski side of the business and not the Kahles side. I tried to dig down and was it confirmed by more than one person. Fwiw, Swaro has owned Kahles since the late 80's. Thanks again to the OP. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/20/2024 11:39:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 80085]
[#12]
Original 16" SF reticle. Made by Kahles as confirmed by Austria. :
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:40:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Running the numbers, I'm going with the 50/200 Zero; it seems to pair very well with the 60mm optic height, while retaining basic 300yd donut of death functionality.
Here's the calculator I used if you'd like to run your own loads: https://bergerbullets.com/ballistics-calculator/ 50/200yd Zero: 100yd Zero: 300yd Zero: I worked on getting mine zero'd at the range tonight, ran out of time before I got it perfectly zero'd for elevation. One thing I found was the extremely fine center crosshair is easy to lose against black targets, a bit better on white ones. On the other hand the Donut of Death remains very visible even in low light.  At 100yd the interior of the Donut was a bit wider than a paper torso target, I wonder if this is different on 1.5x? |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:41:05 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 80085: Original 16" SF reticle. Made by Kahles as confirmed by Austria. : https://i.imgur.com/lIxq0IV.jpg Awesome find, thank you. So the OG 16" SF was made by Kahles, while the newer 60mm SF MilDot is made by Swarovski? |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 1:09:26 PM EDT
[#15]
As one additional spec to be aware of, on my 3X unit the adjustment clicks are 1/4 MIL per click. Nobody actually documents or says that anywhere, including even that article (unless I missed it?) I don't have that very unit. But the older 3x, so that's not confirmedfor that unit. In my case I went to the range and ran a broad spectrums of impact tests with a wide range of settings to back that out.
FWIW, 1/4 mil / click is close (but not quite) 1 MOA/click. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/22/2024 3:19:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Awesome find, thank you. So the OG 16" SF was made by Kahles, while the newer 60mm SF MilDot is made by Swarovski? It could be. Or I was not told correctly. Or Swarovski made the optic but Kahles designed the reticle. Or Swarovski made the optics but Kahles distributed them to the Austrian government. Or none of the above. I don’t think it matters much if it was Kahles or Swarovski since they’re both essentially the same company. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 5:46:04 PM EDT
[#17]
One thing I'm finding is the very center of the crosshair on the 3x MildDot is way too fine for me, it really tends to disapear against most backgrounds.
I'm planning on switching from normal black targets to little white circle stickers, in hopes they provide better contrast with the black crosshair. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085WPGV2R/?th=1 I'll report back on if these work well. |
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CHE
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:01:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 80085: It could be. Or I was not told correctly. Or Swarovski made the optic but Kahles designed the reticle. Or Swarovski made the optics but Kahles distributed them to the Austrian government. Or none of the above. I don’t think it matters much if it was Kahles or Swarovski since they’re both essentially the same company. Negative Ghost Rider, Run Way 41,000 posts is full. Although both companies are both owned by Swaro, the Kahles brand is considered not quite up to Swaro in terms of quality of glass quality. Kahles is also technically the military/tactical "branch" of Swaro. This optic was not a shared platform item. This is why all the pooh-py about the secret AUG scope. Becuse it came from Swaro which in Euro is WAY more desirable. Fwiw. |
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CHE
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:08:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: One thing I'm finding is the very center of the crosshair on the 3x MildDot is way too fine for me, it really tends to disapear against most backgrounds. I'm planning on switching from normal black targets to little white circle stickers, in hopes they provide better contrast with the black crosshair. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085WPGV2R/?th=1 I'll report back on if these work well. Please do. This is great info. I'm on the fence on keeping mine. The optics are kick-ass but although the riser makes the height perfect I'm too fat for the eye relief. Everyone calls it a riser and it is awesome in that role for me but , F, $800 for a riser? It could be considered cheap if you add up the cost of a pic rail and back - up sights. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:50:47 AM EDT
[#20]
Does anyone have info on the 1.5X version of this scope? Not original 1980's scope but the new-ish one that looks identical, has all the pic rails on the top and side but comes in 1.5X...
I'm considering jumping on that PSA deal for the 300BO AUG that comes with the 1.5X scope but dont want a "bad" scope. Also, I'm assuming there is no illumination with these reticles... |
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