Is one better or worse than the other.  Looking at the gen2+.  Either athe Armasight nemisis 4x or ATN night arrow 4x

Probably not, especially used.  The current production Armasight stuff is managed by FLIR and QC/Warranty work doesn’t sound any less stressful than before.  Typically though ATN has had the reputation of last resort and I’m sure you’ll get better resale here on something marked Armasight than ATN if that matters.  ATN does claim to use Photonis tubes in their gen 2 WPT so you may very well get a good optic either way.

i found the atn mars to be a good scope ,dont think its made now ,  i tried a night arrow but it was not near the quality of the mars - i have not seen the armasight one

I have 2 Armasight products. A OPMOD PVS-14 gen 3 Alpha and a gen 2+ HD pvs-14. The Gen 2+ is a Ekran tube and has a nice clean image and keeps up with Gen3 quite well. The Gen3 Alpha is a Pinnacle tube with a S2N of 29.9 and also is very clean. I bought the OPMOD form OpticsPlanet which did not provide the data sheet. I was however able to get it from Armasight. So far Armasight has done pretty well by mw.

Personally I would stay far away from ATN night vision... I have heard things and just had my own very sketchy experience with them. I've heard good things about their thermal products.

Perhaps search around for a private sale, maybe someone here would part with a Gen 2.

I had (and still have) and old Gen1 OpMod Armasight.... it's still working and held up well.

if buying used and in still with warranty, then ATN. If new, I would stick to Armasight. Reasoning - Armasight no longer supports 2nd, 3rd, 4th owners, etc since being absorbed into FLIR. Since that transition, I feel that consumer level support has gone downhill.

I feel like the build quality is slightly better with Armasight, but any of the ATN thermals or Gen 3 stuff has been fine for me. Support through ATN has been outstanding any time I've had to deal with them.

two cheeks, but both part of the same Ukrainian arse

Don't know how much FLIR will stir up the pot. Will we see Armasight depart from the COT made NODs? Wonder if COT makes / sources the new 51 deg optics for their units or if they've already started to separate. At least COT has no mention on their website of the new BNVD51 nor of the bare optics.

This litte guy is a bit offtopic but interesting anyway - a Russian copy of the Wilcox MUM bridge and the same for that "G24":
Link to COT

[youtube]Weuxn5KbblM?t=7[/youtube]

I'm curious. What does Armasight or ATN have to do with the Ukraine? I cannot speak of ATN as I have no experience with any of their products,  but I do have a couple of Armasight products. Both of the Armasight pvs-14's that I have have the exact same housings as my NGI/TNVC pvs-14. I can tell by the identical tooling marks on all three housings that they were all sourced from the same manufacturer. My Armasight gen 3 has an ITT pinnacle tube, and my Armasight gen 2HD has a Ekran tube. In fact, the NGI and the Armasight gen 2 perform almost identically aside from the NGI being a little bit brighter.

Not necessarily with Ukraine, but many of Armasight's and ATN's products come from that general direction. As far as I know COT is the manufacturer of the high end ATN & Armasight NV monos & binos, excluding PVS-14. In the US both of them probably sell mil-spec PVS-14 housings & optics, but I wouldn't say that's the case in Canada and the rest of the world. They could have found who actually manufactures some of the optics for PVS-14 and can source parts that are pretty much the same, but not labeled with the same codes & numbers.

Tube wise it's the same. In the US they can sell L3 / Harris Gen3, and Photonis of course, but the rest of the world gets Katod, Ekran FEP and Photonis mostly. I don't know if they use Harder Digital Gen3 tubes these days, maybe not as they are a bit pricier than roughly equivalents from Katod.

There's plenty of different flavors of non-US PVS-14's. Some are far from pretty while some are very decent (I haven't handled a decent one, but from others I have heard they are actually very good). I wouldn't be surprised if some of them had, if not exact the same but at least, close to the same optics as those sold from reliable vendors in the US.

Gotcha. I suppose like a typical American,  I was only thinking inside the CONUS . I see what you and the other person mean now.

Even inside the US a lot of the non-milspec stuff is using foreign tubes/components.  Some items use Photonis/L3 tubes but some use non-standard stuff.  Open up a Night Spirit or Armasight version, or the non 10130 version the their clip one, etc.  Some play nice and use brand name parts but most of the lower spec stuff isn’t from a US manufacturer or Photonis.

If you buy the milspec versions like the PVS 14 and spec out an L3 tube version, that’s what you’ll get.  But what about the proprietary monocular with unbranded Standard Gen 2 tube?