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Posted: 4/12/2023 5:50:14 AM EDT
[#1]
Welcome to arfcom! Get both!
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Posted: 4/12/2023 6:57:24 AM EDT
[#2]
There won’t be any under-penetration problems with a home defense 556 rifle, we are talking 15 yards max distance. I highly recommend small frame first (ar15) the weight difference alone is the driving factor and is more than adequate. But like the first poster said, eventually get both.
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Posted: 4/12/2023 7:10:31 AM EDT
[#3]
get both.
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Posted: 4/12/2023 7:10:43 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for replies, both. I watched most of Andrew's 223 gel test videos and even from 10-20 feet distance shots into gel, the penetration rarely exceeds FBI min of 12". That's what i worry about. Would that even reach vitals of a massive 300lbs attacker wearing thick winter clothes for example?
Ideally would be to just buy both, but for now i intend to only buy only one. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 7:23:43 AM EDT
[#5]
Ar15, and don't buy whatever crappy ammo you're seeing in those gel tests.
You aren't buying it to kill jello. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 7:31:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Go shoot an AR10 (or any 308 rifle) in a small, indoor shooting range. That should help you decide.
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Posted: 4/12/2023 7:42:34 AM EDT
[#7]
No question - 16" 5.56 AR. Get some Speer Gold Dots for defense purposes.
A 16" 5.56 is going to be pretty brutally loud and concussive inside your house. A 7.62 rifle will be excruciating. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 8:10:01 AM EDT
[#8]
AR15
You could get another upper or two in other calibers like 300 BO or 350 Legend if you want more firepower for HD. For recreation and varmints 5.56 is great and affordable. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 8:22:13 AM EDT
[#9]
This is the main reason why i have distrust in 223 as a proper human defense caliber. It was created as a varmint round and those who know alot about terminal ballistics do not even consider it as enough for human SD. I wouldn't even think twice about it if it would be strickly for me, i'd buy .308 without a doubt. But i want something that my wife would also use if need be. I'd rather just buy one good AR an equip it with good optics. This one is hard to decide. Primarly it would be a HD gun. And also for target practice. But i don't need it for varmint control, since there are no such pests where i live.
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Posted: 4/12/2023 8:34:36 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the main reason why i have distrust in 223 as a proper human defense caliber. It was created as a varmint round and those who know alot about terminal ballistics do not even consider it as enough for human SD. I wouldn't even think twice about it if it would be strickly for me, i'd buy .308 without a doubt. But i want something that my wife would also use if need be. I'd rather just buy one good AR an equip it with good optics. This one is hard to decide. Primarly it would be a HD gun. And also for target practice. But i don't need it for varmint control, since there are no such pests where i live. A 308 has more recoil, muzzle blast, platform weight, etc that makes it inferior in a home defense scenario. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 8:42:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AR15 You could get another upper or two in other calibers like 300 BO or 350 Legend if you want more firepower for HD. For recreation and varmints 5.56 is great and affordable. This is how it starts. This is how it ends (HD rifle thread). |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 8:45:31 AM EDT
[#12]
My ar-10 build is a monster. Big, heavy, loud, angry.
That said, my 13.7 hd gun in 556 will run circles around it in just about every scenario other than killing stuff that's really far away, and that's not much of a hd scenario, is it? Use the right tool for the job. AR-15 all day, errrday. Get some heavy bullet stuff designed for the job at hand. Don't want varmint bullets? Don't buy hd ammo with varmint bullets loaded in them. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 8:46:12 AM EDT
[#13]
AR15's in 223/556 have dropped many, MANY a bad guy. Sure, 308 has more power, but for HD and plinking the 556 is your huckleberry. Show me a baddy that wants to stand in front of a 30 pack of 556 in your living room and I'll show you a liar.
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Posted: 4/12/2023 8:53:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Welcome to arfcom! An AR15, unless you're anticipating 100+ yd. engagements, even so... 2 - 3 quick ones may be far better than one massive kill shot.
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Posted: 4/12/2023 8:55:43 AM EDT
[#15]
I agree with others: AR-15 - not AR-10. There is absolutely no way I'd shoot a .308 indoors. Too much penetration. And WAY TO LOUD! And like other OPs have stated, with an AR-15 you can get a 300 BLK upper. Even with supersonic ammo, the 300 BLK will be less destructive to your hearing. I use subsonic with a suppressor. Quiet. Low muzzle flash. Low recoil. And no concerns about over penetration!
GBB |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 9:20:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Again, it's not the overpenetration that i am concerned (i live in a house with thick brick walls and no neighbours nearby) but underpenetration. Watching gel test videos, many 223 rounds suffer underpenetration. That's what concerns me about this caliber.
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Posted: 4/12/2023 9:26:52 AM EDT
[#17]
5.56 works just fine. It’s already going to be loud AF inside a room. No reason to make it worse with .308 indoors.
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Posted: 4/12/2023 9:50:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, it's not the overpenetration that i am concerned (i live in a house with thick brick walls and no neighbours nearby) but underpenetration. Watching gel test videos, many 223 rounds suffer underpenetration. That's what concerns me about this caliber. Don't use those rounds. Regular 'ol M193 out of a 16" barrel is devastating at HD distances and even out to a couple 100 yards. If you're shooting past that, it's not exactly HD... Nick |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 11:34:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the main reason why i have distrust in 223 as a proper human defense caliber. It was created as a varmint round and those who know alot about terminal ballistics do not even consider it as enough for human SD. So the two reasons why you have "distrust" are both myths. That should tell you something. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 11:44:25 AM EDT
[#20]
Gel test videos huh? Go watch war videos or even the 1986 FBI Miami shootout and tell me how ineffective 223 is.
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Posted: 4/12/2023 12:45:45 PM EDT
[#21]
In this thread we learn how many people have neither shot 556 or 308 inside of a structure, vehicle, etc.
ETA: we also learn who has never seen what 556 does to living tissue. OP in terms of ballistics, 556 has been successfully flipping people’s switches for decades. You’re overthinking it. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 1:20:40 PM EDT
[#22]
You aren’t listening. 5.56, the end.
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Posted: 4/12/2023 1:35:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You aren’t listening. 5.56, the end. this even though he has SERIOUS concerns about it not penetrating things. 
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Posted: 4/12/2023 1:41:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, it's not the overpenetration that i am concerned (i live in a house with thick brick walls and no neighbours nearby) but underpenetration. Watching gel test videos, many 223 rounds suffer underpenetration. That's what concerns me about this caliber. Have you wondered why it’s the caliber of choice for so many professionals and soldiers? You need to remember that gel is not the same as flesh/tissue and while I’m not familiar with the tests you watched most aren’t using good calibrated ballistic gel so you can’t even compare to other gel tests. You’re overthinking it. Pick a good round and don’t worry about it. I love AR10’s but think everyone should have an AR because of how common they are. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 1:42:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, it's not the overpenetration that i am concerned (i live in a house with thick brick walls and no neighbours nearby) but underpenetration. Watching gel test videos, many 223 rounds suffer underpenetration. That's what concerns me about this caliber. There are dozens of modern defensive loads with more than adequate penetration capabilities. If you don’t want Varmint loads, don’t buy Varmint loads. I’m leaning heavily towards this being a troll thread, but on the off chance it’s not, use some of your YouTube searching ability on Google or another search engine to do some research on the fairly basic topics you’re wanting to discuss. You clearly found the oft-cited FBI penetration standards. It shouldn’t be too much more of a leap to find some 5.56/.223 loads that reliably meet and/or exceed those standards. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 1:42:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Good thing Kyle Rittenhouse shot those pedophiles & criminals with a .308.
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Posted: 4/12/2023 6:32:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People that professionally kill humans for a living in high risk, high value target situations are still using 5.56 as their chosen tool. A 308 has more recoil, muzzle blast, platform weight, etc that makes it inferior in a home defense scenario. This 100%. Get an AR-15 and if you really do think you need more power than a 5.56 then get a 300BLK or 6.5 Grendel upper. Or get an AK in 7.62x39. 308 for HD is obscene overkill. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 6:41:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good thing Kyle Rittenhouse shot those pedophiles & criminals with a .308. And the 2 recent videos of police taking out bad guys in TN and KY. Kyle rittenhouse shot each person 1 time, from waaaay too close for comfort. Contact distances on all of them. 2 of them died on the spot and one of them have up the fight. Officer rex in TN took 4 shots and took the lady out of the fight, but she was still alive and moving around. Officer in KY fired 5 shots and the bad guy was dead. He may not have even needed that many. The two cops were further than any inside the house distance, unless you live in a mansion. I think 556 is plenty adequate for the job. 308 is overkill. If you want to make .30 caliber holes in a home defense gun, maybe look at 7.62x39 or 300blk. They are more similar to 556 in terms of knockdownpowuh but make a bigger hole. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 7:35:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the main reason why i have distrust in 223 as a proper human defense caliber. It was created as a varmint round and those who know alot about terminal ballistics do not even consider it as enough for human SD. I wouldn't even think twice about it if it would be strickly for me, i'd buy .308 without a doubt. But i want something that my wife would also use if need be. I'd rather just buy one good AR an equip it with good optics. This one is hard to decide. Primarly it would be a HD gun. And also for target practice. But i don't need it for varmint control, since there are no such pests where i live. You need to read up on 5.56mm wound ballistics. Nothing you’ve written above is factually accurate. Aside from the fact that 5.56 has been putting down bad guys for a very very long time, a 308 gas gun is a lot harder to drive, recoils more, has more muzzle blast, weighs more, and has a lower magazine capacity on a weight basis when compared to a 5.56 carbine. Not to mention 308 ammo is more expensive than 5.56. Unless your wife is built like Gina Carrano, she isn’t going to love a 308. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 7:36:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, it's not the overpenetration that i am concerned (i live in a house with thick brick walls and no neighbours nearby) but underpenetration. Watching gel test videos, many 223 rounds suffer underpenetration. That's what concerns me about this caliber. 5.56 is the most common rifle caliber in LE armories. Our warfighters still shoot 5.56 carbines. Your “research” sources need to be discarded. Choose the right 223 or 5.56 loading and stop overthinking this. M193 does well. So does mk262. Neither are barrier blind, but I suggest you don’t get hung up on minutiae. If you insist on barrier blind, there are many options. Speer Gold Dot, Hornaday GMX, and Barnes TSX loadings are all good performers. I personally stick with Gold Dot because it performs well, is known to function well in autoloading rifles, and is the most reasonably priced. Here is a decent primer re: barrier blind 223/5.56: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4344-5-56-mm-Duty-Loads |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 8:46:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the 2 recent videos of police taking out bad guys in TN and KY. Kyle rittenhouse shot each person 1 time, from waaaay too close for comfort. Contact distances on all of them. 2 of them died on the spot and one of them have up the fight. Officer rex in TN took 4 shots and took the lady out of the fight, but she was still alive and moving around. Officer in KY fired 5 shots and the bad guy was dead. He may not have even needed that many. The two cops were further than any inside the house distance, unless you live in a mansion. I think 556 is plenty adequate for the job. 308 is overkill. If you want to make .30 caliber holes in a home defense gun, maybe look at 7.62x39 or 300blk. They are more similar to 556 in terms of knockdownpowuh but make a bigger hole. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Good thing Kyle Rittenhouse shot those pedophiles & criminals with a .308. And the 2 recent videos of police taking out bad guys in TN and KY. Kyle rittenhouse shot each person 1 time, from waaaay too close for comfort. Contact distances on all of them. 2 of them died on the spot and one of them have up the fight. Officer rex in TN took 4 shots and took the lady out of the fight, but she was still alive and moving around. Officer in KY fired 5 shots and the bad guy was dead. He may not have even needed that many. The two cops were further than any inside the house distance, unless you live in a mansion. I think 556 is plenty adequate for the job. 308 is overkill. If you want to make .30 caliber holes in a home defense gun, maybe look at 7.62x39 or 300blk. They are more similar to 556 in terms of knockdownpowuh but make a bigger hole. You’re agreeing with him. He was being facetious. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 8:51:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re agreeing with him. He was being facetious. Correct on both counts. Just because somebody quotes a post doesn't meant they are disagreeing with it. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 9:00:19 PM EDT
[#33]
I have both, but I'd give up 5.56 if I was forced to chose. While shot placement is everything, there's a reason 223 isn't legal for deer hunting in many states. It's a varmint round. Most gas operated semi autos tame the little recoil from the 308 to the point that it's really not a factor.
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Posted: 4/12/2023 9:04:31 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 5.56 is the most common rifle caliber in LE armories. Our warfighters still shoot 5.56 carbines. Your “research” sources need to be discarded. Choose the right 223 or 5.56 loading and stop overthinking this. M193 does well. So does mk262. Neither are barrier blind, but I suggest you don’t get hung up on minutiae. If you insist on barrier blind, there are many options. Speer Gold Dot, Hornaday GMX, and Barnes TSX loadings are all good performers. I personally stick with Gold Dot because it performs well, is known to function well in autoloading rifles, and is the most reasonably priced. Here is a decent primer re: barrier blind 223/5.56: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4344-5-56-mm-Duty-Loads Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Again, it's not the overpenetration that i am concerned (i live in a house with thick brick walls and no neighbours nearby) but underpenetration. Watching gel test videos, many 223 rounds suffer underpenetration. That's what concerns me about this caliber. 5.56 is the most common rifle caliber in LE armories. Our warfighters still shoot 5.56 carbines. Your “research” sources need to be discarded. Choose the right 223 or 5.56 loading and stop overthinking this. M193 does well. So does mk262. Neither are barrier blind, but I suggest you don’t get hung up on minutiae. If you insist on barrier blind, there are many options. Speer Gold Dot, Hornaday GMX, and Barnes TSX loadings are all good performers. I personally stick with Gold Dot because it performs well, is known to function well in autoloading rifles, and is the most reasonably priced. Here is a decent primer re: barrier blind 223/5.56: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4344-5-56-mm-Duty-Loads I will say, I think it’s long past time people stop recommending M193 for defensive uses. Sure, it can work and do the job, however its sole argument is low cost. In every other relevant category, it’s a compromise driven by that argument. The ever continuing trend of shorter and shorter barrels (driven by a number of different things) means the operating envelope for decent reliable/ideal terminal performance continues to shrink for projectiles heavily dependent upon high velocities for said performance. We also live in a modern, functioning (relatively) economy with a for the most part functioning (also relative) manufacturing base. Even during the panic, loaded defensive ammo using projectiles designed and tested for that specific role were still pretty readily available (albeit a bit more expensive). Even more, most quality modern defensive loads share a trajectory similar enough to most cheap bulk ball loads that there’s no need for weird holdovers or re-zeroing when shooting one or the other, at least within the window of training geared towards most defensive roles/situations your average civilian end user could reasonably expect to face (0-200/300yds on man size targets). All of that further negates the cost argument many cite. Buy a couple boxes of the good stuff to keep loaded in mags and use cheap ball crap for everything else if your budget is that tight. Mk262 is obviously better than M193 for most roles, although it’s not something I’d consider to be near the top of the list performance wise, again, especially so when looking at shorter barrels. TMK is a different beast altogether, though. It’s not exactly comparable to the HD discussion, but I’ve shot more than enough animals at varying ranges with both the 77gr SMK and the 77gr TMK, and frankly, there’s no comparison. Anyways, my $0.02, worth what you paid for it, YMMV, etc. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 9:05:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct on both counts. Just because somebody quotes a post doesn't meant they are disagreeing with it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You’re agreeing with him. He was being facetious. Correct on both counts. Just because somebody quotes a post doesn't meant they are disagreeing with it. Apparently I’m the one having trouble reading. I initially read your post as trying to correct him, not co-signing with additional info. It’s been a long day. 
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Posted: 4/12/2023 9:09:31 PM EDT
[#36]
.556 knockdown concerned? Then get a 6.5 Grendel upper to go with it , then buy another lower , and it goes on and on
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Posted: 4/12/2023 9:15:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have both, but I'd give up 5.56 if I was forced to chose. While shot placement is everything, there's a reason 223 isn't legal for deer hunting in many states. It's a varmint round. Most gas operated semi autos tame the little recoil from the 308 to the point that it's really not a factor. Most of them are still bigger and heavier which sucks especially in an enclosed area. I don't think anyone is saying the 223 is better than the 308 just that the smaller gun is better suited to the task even in 223. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 9:20:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have both, but I'd give up 5.56 if I was forced to chose. While shot placement is everything, there's a reason 223 isn't legal for deer hunting in many states. It's a varmint round. Most gas operated semi autos tame the little recoil from the 308 to the point that it's really not a factor. Totally personal choice, but a lot of what you posted is frankly decade+ old arguments drug up from some long lost pit of shit that was dispelled long ago. For starters, .223 and 5.56 are used all over the country to take deer and it generally does it pretty effectively. There are a ton of loads available that aren’t geared towards Varmints nor are they comparable to the performance of Varmint loads. That’s not to say it’s ideal for that role, but killing a deer at 100y isn’t exactly comparable to shooting a dude kicking your front door in at 0200. A more relevant comparison would be that the vast majority of professional organizations who list CQ/DA stuff as a primary function/capability almost universally use 5.56 for that general work. .300BLK has edged it out in certain fairly specific/unique roles (roles PCCs used to fill), but those are few and far between. Now, I’m sure some organizations have adopted or at least tested other cartridges for that role, but in the vast majority of cases, that just isn’t the case. One thing is for sure, no one who does this shit for a living would or does choose .308 for that role. Larger, heavier, more muzzle flash, louder, more recoil, and the list goes on and on. In every category that should be a major factor for the CQ/HD role, .308 is worse when looked at next to 5.56. ETA: Also not saying it’s completely useless. As a “buy it cheap, stack it deep” item set aside for unlikely contingencies, it does great, especially in large quantities where a small increase in price per round becomes a pretty big increase overall. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 9:44:22 PM EDT
[#39]
 Are Match Bullets Suitable for Defense? Hornady 75gr BTHP Gel Test  How Good Can a Plain 55gr FMJ Bullet Be? Double taps will be faster / easier with a 5.56. And it is certainly proven around the globe. Otherwise, maybe consider a 300BK , or a 7.62x39 AR... and as mentioned a 6.5 Grendel. A .308 / 7.62x51 will certainly do the job readily, and will beat a lot of calibers, but it will be a beast to manhandle quickly.... with ample concussion and blast. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 10:14:40 PM EDT
[#40]
I’d probably skip the AR10 as it’s going to be heavy and bulky. POF makes a few lightweight 14.5-16” .308s … but they’re spendy and recoil increase is not negligible.
An 11.5” 5.56mm AR pistol is a much better HD option. A short 8-10” 300BLK if’n you want more punch or 12.5” 6.5/6.8mm for more range are also better choices for HD simply because of size, weight and capacity. If I truly wanted a .308 for home defense, it’d get a bullpup. Chunky, but they’ve got enough barrel to let the .308 work its wonders AND they’re small enough to maneuver indoors. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 11:33:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will say, I think it’s long past time people stop recommending M193 for defensive uses. Sure, it can work and do the job, however its sole argument is low cost. In every other relevant category, it’s a compromise driven by that argument. The ever continuing trend of shorter and shorter barrels (driven by a number of different things) means the operating envelope for decent reliable/ideal terminal performance continues to shrink for projectiles heavily dependent upon high velocities for said performance. We also live in a modern, functioning (relatively) economy with a for the most part functioning (also relative) manufacturing base. Even during the panic, loaded defensive ammo using projectiles designed and tested for that specific role were still pretty readily available (albeit a bit more expensive). Even more, most quality modern defensive loads share a trajectory similar enough to most cheap bulk ball loads that there’s no need for weird holdovers or re-zeroing when shooting one or the other, at least within the window of training geared towards most defensive roles/situations your average civilian end user could reasonably expect to face (0-200/300yds on man size targets). All of that further negates the cost argument many cite. Buy a couple boxes of the good stuff to keep loaded in mags and use cheap ball crap for everything else if your budget is that tight. Mk262 is obviously better than M193 for most roles, although it’s not something I’d consider to be near the top of the list performance wise, again, especially so when looking at shorter barrels. TMK is a different beast altogether, though. It’s not exactly comparable to the HD discussion, but I’ve shot more than enough animals at varying ranges with both the 77gr SMK and the 77gr TMK, and frankly, there’s no comparison. Anyways, my $0.02, worth what you paid for it, YMMV, etc. Fully agree. I keep a bunch of different things stocked for different purposes. M193 is the lowest common denominator for defensive use, but it’s not obsolete in the right rifle. And it’s easy to stack deep to slab cracking levels. If it’s all I had when the chips were down, I wouldn’t feel under prepared. But it’s not what I’d pick as first choice if given the option. |
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Posted: 4/14/2023 1:10:55 PM EDT
[#42]
 P&S ModCast 103 - Clip 01: Chuck Talks About 5 56 vs 308 Listen to Chuck. |
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Posted: 4/14/2023 6:30:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, it's not the overpenetration that i am concerned (i live in a house with thick brick walls and no neighbours nearby) but underpenetration. Watching gel test videos, many 223 rounds suffer underpenetration. That's what concerns me about this caliber. I've used an AR15 in a SD shooting, countless people have, and even with those "varmint" bullets, trust me, they work. |
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Posted: 4/15/2023 8:36:36 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryHe is an authority on the subject. |
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Posted: 4/15/2023 8:52:12 AM EDT
[#45]
OP gonna be back in a month with post #3 asking why his new 308 is malfunctioning.
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Posted: 4/15/2023 9:50:48 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 4/15/2023 9:57:18 AM EDT
[#47]
AR-15 / M4 design / 16" Barrel
All of the ammo below will achieve 12-18" of ballistic gel pentation Use good quality ammo like: Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 223 Remington Ammo 55 Grain Soft Point MPN: 24446 * Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 223 Remington Ammo 62 Grain Soft Point MPN: 24445SP Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 223 Remington Ammo 75 Grain Soft Point MPN: 24475 Federal Tactical TRU 223 Remington Ammo 55 Grain SP MPN: LE223T1 MPN: T223A or MPN:XM223AMET * Federal Law Enforcement Tactical 223 Remington Ammo 62 Grain Bonded Soft Point MPN: LE223T3 * Federal Tactical TRU 223 Remington Ammo 64 Grain Soft Point MPN: T223L * Federal Power-Shok 223 Remington Ammo 64 Grain Jacketed Soft Point MPN: 223L Federal Fusion 223 Remington Ammo 62 Grain Spitzer Boat Tail MPN: F223FS1 Federal Fusion MSR 223 Remington Ammo 62 Grain Spitzer Boat Tail MPN: F223MSR1 * Winchester Super-X 223 Remington 64 Grain Pointed Soft Point MPN: X223R2 * Winchester Ranger 223 Remington 64 Grain Power Point MPN: RA223R2 Winchester Ranger 223 Remington 55 Grain Pointed Soft Point MPN: RA223R Accessories your on your own - that is a rabbit hole *my preferences IMHO |
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Posted: 4/15/2023 1:51:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Don't be an ammo nerd.
16" AR with an Aimpoint in a good mount, light in a place you can reach it, sight it in, keep it near. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 11:39:31 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AR-15 / M4 design / 16" Barrel All of the ammo below will achieve 12-18" of ballistic gel pentation Use good quality ammo like: Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 223 Remington Ammo 55 Grain Soft Point MPN: 24446 * Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 223 Remington Ammo 62 Grain Soft Point MPN: 24445SP Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 223 Remington Ammo 75 Grain Soft Point MPN: 24475 Federal Tactical TRU 223 Remington Ammo 55 Grain SP MPN: LE223T1 MPN: T223A or MPN:XM223AMET * Federal Law Enforcement Tactical 223 Remington Ammo 62 Grain Bonded Soft Point MPN: LE223T3 * Federal Tactical TRU 223 Remington Ammo 64 Grain Soft Point MPN: T223L * Federal Power-Shok 223 Remington Ammo 64 Grain Jacketed Soft Point MPN: 223L Federal Fusion 223 Remington Ammo 62 Grain Spitzer Boat Tail MPN: F223FS1 Federal Fusion MSR 223 Remington Ammo 62 Grain Spitzer Boat Tail MPN: F223MSR1 * Winchester Super-X 223 Remington 64 Grain Pointed Soft Point MPN: X223R2 * Winchester Ranger 223 Remington 64 Grain Power Point MPN: RA223R2 Winchester Ranger 223 Remington 55 Grain Pointed Soft Point MPN: RA223R Accessories your on your own - that is a rabbit hole *my preferences IMHO Buy an ar-15 from a reputable manufacturer and use one of these. FYI, Speer Gold Dot and Federal Fusion are practically the same bullet. The Speer comes in a nickel plated case though. |
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Posted: 4/17/2023 11:46:01 AM EDT
[#50]
I recommend a suppressed 5.56 with a 1x red dot and light loaded with Speer Gold Dots or Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. A .308 is not necessary for HD.
If you are not going to suppress it you should prepare to have some level of hearing loss after firing it indoors. |
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