I’ve been lucky enough to have been issued NVG’s and I haven’t had to pay crazy amounts of money to see in the dark but I have been browsing and looking at ATN and AGM. I’ll never shell out for 31’s but I see memes about AGM and I was wondering if AGM and ATN are really that bad? I’ve been spoiled to use 31’s for a few years now and I remember how bad old 14’s can be but is getting a set of nods from AGM and ATN like using a strike Eagle after running Nightforce?

My dad bought an ATN 'night scope' against my recommendation.  It did not take long for the magic smoke to be released and for it to become a brick.  Friends don't let friends buy ATN.

I have an agm pvs-14. Elbit WP tube. I think it's comparable to other brands. I don't notice the dreaded fish eye lens problems, or I'm lucky enough that mine aren't bad. My eyepiece isn't timed correctly, but it doesn't affect focusing.

My understanding is that AGM thermal devices are very good for the price also.

I have never heard anything good about ATN.

How would you compare your WP AGM tube to an issued 14?

No clue, they don't issue -14s in the HVAC/plumbing business.

But with the way prices are now, you can get better devices for the same cost as agm.

Depends on what "level" you get.

Just get one from TNVC or JRH. AGM glass and housings are shit anyway.

There are a lot more vendors out there besides the ones that pay to be here.

Not saying the guys on here aren't good or anything.  Just stating that there are others to look at as well.

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Very true, but I always want to support those that help keep the lights on at AR15.COM. Besides some vendors here have great prices, customer service and are a wealth of knowledge

Personally, I would avoid ATN and AGM if at all possible... There are a few reputable vendors here that will make things right if something is messed up, and then, there is always the DIY route...

G.

Exactly how/why are AGM glass and housings "shit"?

I have two AGM thermals. They are both great. That’s all I have for you.

Well, I think the OP was referring to their I2 night vision devices, not thermals... I've had the unfortunate pleasure of running into cheap non MIL-SPEC glass back in the day (not sure who made it), and the image was not sharp around the edges of the tube, and you could never really get a sharp image in focus...

I've owned several ATN I2 stuff in the past, and their Gen0 stuff was, well, Gen0 stuff nuff said... but their Gen2 wasn't really any better than my 1980s Gen2 Litton M911... their housings had glass that wasn't that good, the tubes in general were US MILSPEC tubes, so back in the day we poached the tubes and ditched the housing...

I've never owned an ATN thermal, so I can't comment on those.

I do own FLIR thermals and AGM thermals, and the FLIR thermals I have are better, but that is most likely b/c they cost a lot more...

G.

The AGM 14's will tend to use the exact same format tubes as other retailers' PVS-14s but other retailers will typically use legit milspec housings.

The AGM lenses were sub par compared to mil spec lenses (of those i have used), but I heard the newer ones have coatings to reduce glare? Either way, they are 100% usable.

The AGM / ATN offerings generally suck because the housing electronics are not of the same quality. Both companies also have products that are outstanding within the rest of the lineup, but they also have some absolute shit.

For example - I do like ATN's thermals. I think the image quality on them is actually pretty good for the price. While I've never owned any, I have heard similar about AGM's thermals. ATN's PS-15 housing is pretty lousy. I dont know why they keep buying it from China instead of going with some BNVD-40 option like AGM. The BNVD-40 from AGM is like a Hi-Point pistol. It is a damn brick, but it is built solid and once you work the quirks out of it, it is a quite robust and dependable device.

At the end of the day, i think it depends on your needs, budget, etc. I dont just blanket statement say to avoid ATN, AGM, or Armasight, though.

Do Not Buy AGM or ATN. You need only to look at customer service complaints to know that isnt were you want to spend your money. Look for places that offer 10 year warranty and have stellar customer service. Do research on specs and figure out what you will be happy with. Good specs mean easier to sell if you decide to in the future. Everyone raves about white but green is fine as well if it has good specs. If your eyes handle green just fine no reason not to consider them.

My experience with ATN is you don't know what you are getting. And actually, you sometimes do know, if you know what to look for. Its usually a cheap housing (to put it nicely) that is poorly thought out and put together. They use the lowest bidder parts.

They have loose specs and no data card with true tube info. So you can pay full price and get a mediocre tube. I'm not sure they know what they have. You definitely won't know exactly what you are getting, only an appropriate quality. So unless it is a smoking deal, look elsewhere. TNVC has really set the standard of long warranty and disclosing specs of the tube. So while I haven't been happy with an issue I had with TNVC, I appreciate what they have done overall for the market as a whole. I give them a lot of credit on educating the public as a whole.

I bought an ATN Storm 'gen 4' from the used department of a photography shop. Yes I know, but it was $650 or $700. So I figured that I could harvest the tube if it was any good. Plus there was a return option. When I got it, the housing was atrocious. It was a gen 1 housing that had a spacer for the tube to mainly work with the housing. Because it was a gen 1 housing, the field of view was restricted even smaller. The lens also made the image look bad. The house was glued and screwed together. So you had to destroy it to take it apart, which put me in a dilemma. To take it apart would remove my ability to return it. I said screw it and went for it. Its a decent tube that I put in an AB Nightvision pitbull housing that I got on closeout via EBay. So for about $1100-1200, I have a decent unit. I'd never recommend buy it new, but I'm thrilled my gamble worked out.

Sorry I corrected my post. I was trying to imply that they will still typically be standard format tubes but in import housings, whereas most vendors will be using mil spec grade components with the same format MX10160, MX11769, and MX1030 style tubes. Yes, the Gen 2+ tubes are imported, but that would also be true of Night Goggles gen 2+ offerings as well, no? Aren't they also imported tubes?

That being said, your comment would be counter to what I was told back when i had an account with AGM in terms of all gen 3 devices being repots. Could you please post some documentation confirming that claim? I also wouldn't opt for a repot/used tube of a new device was close in price. If they are now using repotted tubes in newly sold devices, that's a mess.

When i had an account with AGM i could order gen 3 devices with new USA manufactured tubes, like many other retailers offer, complete with a warranty.  I was told they were brand new tubes, even the imports.

I could say the same of Armasight and ATN. My Armasight BNVD-40 has a set of brand new tubes of USA manufacture. In fact, i even have a set of filmless tubes sitting in a sentinel housing that came out of an ATN device. They are outstanding.